Religion is fundamentally divisive. That's not helping!

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sure, but how does that forward this conversation?

Why would I wish to forward a conversation which seems to be driven by little more than shallow animus.

Does it all need to be black and white for you?

Talk about projection!

 

[Jimmy]

persistent can be shaky

Not in this case.

 

[The Hammer]

The stuff before industrial revolution was manageable

Tell that to Easter island.

 

[Augustus]

Should our actions, votes or opinions be based on identity, or objective fact?
Are there varying "team facts?"

Yes, of course there are varying team “facts”, that’s the way our brains work.

It would be nice if this were not the case, but it is and we have to accept that we are not rational creatures.

 

[Jimmy]

Tell that to Easter island.

Deforestation isn’t pollution

 

[icehorse]

Why would I wish to forward a conversation which seems to be driven by little more than shallow animus.

Talk about projection!

Why not just address the claims and leave your speculation aside?

 

[Augustus]

I would agree that protecting the environment is often presented as a political ideology, but I think that's a category error, so we should recast it

Protecting the environment is by definition political and involves many political factors.

There’s no way around that.

As for religion being unifying - that was true when the world was bigger. Now that the world is so small, religion usually plays the role of divider.

Still no one ever seems to be able to present something that is more unifying as an alternative.

There’s lots of things that would be great in theory, but it’s akin to magical thinking to expect them to happen in the real world.

 

[Jimmy]

Tell that to Easter island.

And if your referring to trash washing ashore I think it was manageable pre industrial rev

 

[Valjean]

That’s not how human group psychology seems to work. Environmental protection is just one part of a political ideology and political ideologies are divisive.

Unless the "ideology" is critically analysed, and all the facts considered. Then it becomes an objective fact.
Whether we deal with it or ignore it, however, is another matter.

 

[Valjean]

The stuff before industrial revolution was manageable

The stuff before was small and slow. It was rarely managed.

 

[The Hammer]

Deforestation isn’t pollution

No, but pollution isn't the only environmental problem was what I was getting at.

We've always altered our environments, many times to our own detriment.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Dictatorial unity tends to be an us vs them variety. Make people aware of a common enemy, like climate change, and you'll likely get an all-in-this-together response.
The 'natural' tribalism of religion often discourages a dispassionate understanding of our common humanity and interests.

Tribalism is natural, so it gets imposed upon religion. That is a far cry from showing religion as the cause of tribalism.

We have not tried very hard, and, in many cases, we've actively contributed to propaganda by special interests.
We've scrapped the fairness doctrine. News outlets have been bought up by a handful of large corporations, and tow the corporate line. Network news is no longer a mandated loss-leader, but an entertainment show. Social media pander to users' individual bias. Schools aren't teaching critical thinking skills, logic, or media literacy. Our population is poorly informed on issues, knows not where to find relevant, unbiased information, and is turning to "team spirit" as a facile, decision making modality.

So if it weren't for religion we'd all be united?

 

[Jimmy]

No, but pollution isn't the only environmental problem was what I was getting at.

We've always altered our environments, many times to our own detriment.

Oh I see but when this conversation started with someone else it was about pollution

 

[Valjean]

Not answering your loaded question.

Are you a bot. or just trolling?

 

[Valjean]

What objective facts are you speaking of?

Historical facts, documents, &c.

 

[Jimmy]

The stuff before was small and slow. It was rarely managed.

Dumping feces in the woods is managed.

 

[Jimmy]

Are you a bot. or just trolling?

Do you have a problem with me?

 

[Jimmy]

But how have you decided it's truth? You've admitted before that your opinions are based on gut feeling, rather than evidence. It's short-sighted and unregulated technology that's causing the problem.
From what I can see, magical thinking underlies your beliefs.
What are your beliefs based on, if not magic?

I’ve talked in length about my why I believe what I believe and I’m sure you’ve read them.

 

[Valjean]

Protecting the environment is by definition political and involves many political factors.

There’s no way around that.

Our response may be political, but the problem itself is objective.

Still no one ever seems to be able to present something that is more unifying as an alternative.

There’s lots of things that would be great in theory, but it’s akin to magical thinking to expect them to happen in the real world.

We could present ameliorating legislation, but getting the public to accept significant change has always been problematic.
Our short-sightedness and tribalism has likely doomed us.

 

[The Hammer]

Oh I see but when this conversation started with someone else it was about pollution

Fair