religion is slowly dying?

[Deadtroopers]

Nowhere did I mention California. It's true everywhere.

Redlands is on the map dude.

 

[Cephus]

Redlands is on the map dude.

Which doesn't stop what I said from being true everywhere.

 

[DawudTalut]

....... but i've heard/read that religions are slowl declining in favour of science.. would you say this is true? in 200 years from now might there be no religion ? your opinion I'm not sure, so I have no answer I guess..

Peace be on you.
To me, religion is different than science.
Religions guides morals, spirituality, emotions, conducts, relation with God and people.
Science is the way physical world works.

People are leaving religions because it has been being abused by various mafias; corrupt clergies, corrupt politicians, weapon sellers, land mafias, etc..........

Ahmadiyya Muslims uniquely believe that Latter days' reformer [at leat 1000 years era] has come in Islam and process has begun since 1889, now in 206 under Khilafat by the grace of God.

The founder Ahmadiyya Muslim Promised Messiah Mahdi (on whom be peace) prophesied:
O mankind! hearken, this is the prophecy of God Who made the Heavens and the Earth. He will spread this Movement in all the countries and will give it supremacy over all through reason and arguments. Remember, no one will descend from heaven. All our opponents who are living at present will die and not one of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, descend from the sky and then their children who survive them will also pass away and none of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, coming down from the heaven. Generations of their posterity will also perish and they too will not see the son of Mary descending from heaven. Then God will create restlessness in their hearts; that the day of the glory of the Cross had passed away and the world had taken another turn but Jesus, son of Mary, had still not come down from the sky. Then all the wise people will discard this belief and the third century from today will not have completed when all those who had been waiting for Jesus, both Muslims and Christians will despair of his coming and entertaining misgivings shall give up their belief and there will be only one Faith in the world and one preceptor. I came only to sow the seed. That seed has been sown by my hands. It will now grow and blossom forth and none dare retard its growth.

His 2nd Khailfah said:

When a Messenger of God comes and raises a Jama'at, the first people to join are generally the poor. But the Jama'at does not remain poor for all time. It begins to prosper and ultimately even kings enter its fold. It takes root in a centre, then spreads over the area for which the Messenger was intended. Nobody need think, therefore, that our Jama'at is poor and will remain poor. It will grow by leaps and bounds. Let powerful countries join together and try to stop its growth; they will not succeed. A day will come when this Jama'at will beat all other groups and movements in the race. Revelations of Hazrat Mirza Sahib promise that his followers will be dominant over those who deny him until the Day of Judgment; also that the number of those who remain outside his fold will go on declining, and ultimately kings will Join= this Jama'at.

The Jama'at-i-Ahmadiyya, therefore, will not remain as poor= and insignificant as it seems today, but will increase in numbers and influence and begin to surpass others. It will not remain weak but will become strong and victorious. A revelation of the Promised Messiah says:

'Kings will seek blessings from thy garments'.

[Both references from alislam.org]

 

[Serenity7855]

Yes, I just read your 103 pages about the Plan.

Well it is nice to see someone do some research before condemning, although I cannot take the full credit for 103 pages. There were other posters there as well.

Not sure what to make of you at all.

My beliefs are pretty straight forward, and my character is within the general norm, so, comprehension of who and what I am should pose no difficulty for you.

God "speaks" to you in an overwhelmingly powerful fashion but doesn't communicate well enough for you to pass the message on in a way that doesn't make God and and you look stupid?

Oh, I wish that I was in a position for God to speak to me. Sadly, I am a sinner, which makes me unworthy to be in his presence. It is the Holy Ghost who communicates with us, or, more precisely, our spirits. The Holy Ghost prepares people to hear the word of God, so, stupidity is an emotion rarely felt by the honest investigator of the Plan of Salvation. I am not to bother if anyone thinks that I am stupid. I am a christian, converted by the testimony of the Holy Ghost. I realise that there will be trails and tribulations in my mortal probation, however, I wear the full armour of God, so as to protect myself from the fiery darts of Satan. My reward will be in heaven. I do not mind waiting.

God's Plan should be intelligible and intelligent.

That is correct, and that is exactly what it is. It is as complex or simple as you want/need it to be.

Why is it that every time God pulls this stunt 90% of the people who become aware of it roll their eyes?

To be able to answer that I would need to know what stunt you refer to and have evidence that 90% of people roll their eyes at it.

Does God want this Plan to go through or what?

Yes, indubitably.

Or are you inadvertenly sabotaging it?

Absolutely not.

Everyone is supposed to get a chance to be saved you have been told. So why do the dice appear loaded?

What makes you believe that the dice is loaded? If every one will receive an equal opportunity to here the Word of God, then how can the dice be loaded?

There are you say 2.2 billion Christians, I think 36,000-40,000 varieties and your a sole trader: there doesn't appear to be anyone else in your particular sect.

There are five of us on this forum and the numbers are increasing but you are appealing to a ad populum fallacy. Just because we are but few does not automatically make our beliefs unrealistic. As Jesus said "only a handful of mine elect will recognise the masters voice"

I'm not mocking you; I am genuinely interested in what you have to say and I think you are a genuine person; but you will have to help me out here.

I am very much used to being mocked. I have become used to wallowing in deep water, however, I sense that mockery is not your forte. It would be my pleasure to help you out in understanding the Plan of Salvation, however, I am incapable of giving you what I have. That is an attainment that only you can achieve.

 

[suncowiam]

How about the following scenario:

Two countries, one based on science and one based on religion.

If the two countries went to war, which of the countries would win?

Which of the countries would be capable of defending against diseases, against famine?

Which of the countries would be able to sustain peace and equality? (This is a hard one)

You can build further examples on this...

 

[Cephus]

How about the following scenario:

Two countries, one based on science and one based on religion.

If the two countries went to war, which of the countries would win?

Which of the countries would be capable of defending against diseases, against famine?

Which of the countries would be able to sustain peace and equality? (This is a hard one)

You can build further examples on this...

Science in all examples, of course. No matter how hard you pray to the gods, they don't demonstrably deliver a thing.

 

[The Hammer]

I can't remember where i read this, or perhaps heard it.. but i've heard/read that religions are slowl declining in favour of science.. would you say this is true? in 200 years from now might there be no religion ? your opinion I'm not sure, so I have no answer I guess..

Religion and science go in cycles. Dark Ages to Renaissance for example. We are just heading in the direction of science this time, and will fall back to religiosity eventually.

 

[Cephus]

Religion and science go in cycles. Dark Ages to Renaissance for example. We are just heading in the direction of science this time, and will fall back to religiosity eventually.

I don't think so this time, science has largely made what modern religion believes irrelevant and ridiculous. Now maybe, if a wholly different form of religion comes along, things might change, but if what we see in the world today remains accurate, I think religion is doomed as a defining force in humanity.

And a damn good thing that is too.

 

[Serenity7855]

How about the following scenario:

Two countries, one based on science and one based on religion.

If the two countries went to war, which of the countries would win?

Which of the countries would be capable of defending against diseases, against famine?

Which of the countries would be able to sustain peace and equality? (This is a hard one)

You can build further examples on this...

What a very ostentatious and thoroughly impossible scenario to judge that you have concocted. How do you intend to prove such a fallacious set up. I am a christian so I would naturally say that science would win the day, as, I believe, anyone with a modicum of intelligence would say. I would say that, based on their ability to manufacture weapons of mass distruction and the local vicar only knows how to pray. It does not take a genius to work that one out. I could also say that Christians would not be so quick to take another's life as a scientist would, but that might ruffle some feathers. At the end of the day the scientists are more capable of undertaking the atrocities of war then are we Christians. Maybe you should substitute the christians with God and then the outcome would be very different. That is at least more debatable, your situation is nonsensical. The answer is blatantly obvious. I do hope that you are not considering that a non-interventionary God would intervene to help the Christians and then in the process trash the Plan of Salvation. No, that would demonstrate that you are here to debate religion yet you are not aware of the basics.

 

[Serenity7855]

I don't think so this time, science has largely made what modern religion believes irrelevant and ridiculous. Now maybe, if a wholly different form of religion comes along, things might change, but if what we see in the world today remains accurate, I think religion is doomed as a defining force in humanity.

And a damn good thing that is too.

So utterly predictable. Hatred has the ability of rendering the hater blind to the truth. There bigotry is too intense

 

[Cephus]

So utterly predictable. Hatred has the ability of rendering the hater blind to the truth. There bigotry is too intense

Then by all means, put me on ignore. The endless whining is becoming obnoxious.

 

[Serenity7855]

Science in all examples, of course. No matter how hard you pray to the gods, they don't demonstrably deliver a thing.

Typical example of why you are a failed Christian. It is a fundamental principle that God does not intervene. If he did then free agency would cease and the entire Plan of Salvation would cease to exist and I would not be here defending the truth.

 

[suncowiam]

What a very ostentatious and thoroughly impossible scenario to judge that you have concocted. How do you intend to prove such a fallacious set up. I am a christian so I would naturally say that science would win the day, as, I believe, anyone with a modicum of intelligence would say. I would say that, based on their ability to manufacture weapons of mass distruction and the local vicar only knows how to pray. It does not take a genius to work that one out. I could also say that Christians would not be so quick to take another's life as a scientist would, but that might ruffle some feathers. At the end of the day the scientists are more capable of undertaking the atrocities of war then are we Christians. Maybe you should substitute the christians with God and then the outcome would be very different. That is at least more debatable, your situation is a nonsensical. The answer is blatantly obvious.

How about this?

When was the last time religion cured diseases? How has religion helped with medicine? How has religion helped with computers and technology? How has religion help fight wars? How has religion start wars?

I've stated this many times before: Billions of dollars are invested into science. Many of the most intelligent humans devote their times into science. This only shows how dependent and of importance science is to mankind.

Or how about a more personal approach? If you contracted a disease, would you depend on science or religion for a cure?

I'll let you answer all those questions...

 

[Serenity7855]

How about this?

How about it? With all due respects you are making an argument from ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam. There is no logic it what you are saying. I am sorry but I do not expect my postman to deliver a sermon or my doctor to deliver my groceries. What you are saying is exactly the same. I get the feeling that you must have sat down and thought of some way to discredit religion. Is this the best that you have to offer.

When was the last time religion cured diseases? How has religion helped with medicine? How has religion helped with computers and technology? How has religion help fight wars? How has religion start wars?

Why are you making unrelated comparisons and expectation on religion? Did you know that many scientists are in fact religious. Why would you expect religion to cure diseases, help with medicines, build computers (which is what I used to do for many years, I am a Christian), or start and help in wars. Religion is an institution that teaches the word of God to anyone who cares to listen. That is essentially it's function and reason for existing. it doesn't do science. Scientists do science. Why do you want it to compete with science?

I've stated this many times before: Billions of dollars are invested into science. Many of the most intelligent humans devote their times into science. This only shows how dependent and of importance science is to mankind.

Well I see nobody here denouncing that fact. Science is a fundamental part of our society. It exists to make our existence more comfortable for us. It needs billions of dollars to achieve that. Nobody is quibbling about that. But that is what science does. Quite why you are pitting religion against science baffles me and leaves me thinking that you are just having a dig at something, you don't understand or believe in, for the sake of arguing, as their is no logic in your argument.

Or how about a more personal approach? If you contracted a disease, would you depend on science or religion for a cure?

If I contracted a disease I would go to see my doctor and be thankful for anything he could do for me. What I would not expect is for him to jump in his taxi and come and collect me, no more so then I would expect a microbiologist to play the organal in church. We all play different parts in life's play. If we start to do the acting of others, can you imagine the mess we would be in. Nothing you are saying is making any sense.

 

[Serenity7855]

Nope, can't expect you to be any different, you're delusional. Feel free to continue to wallow in it.

You call me delusional yet it is you who has set up a blog site specifically to berate christianity for no other reason then you failed at it. That site is full of lies, inaccuracies, and deceit. The term pot, kettle and black comes to mind.

 

[suncowiam]

How about it? With all due respects you are arguing from ignorance, argumentum ad ignorantiam. There is no logic it what you are saying. I am sorry but I do not expect my postman to deliver a sermon or my doctor to deliver my groceries. What you are saying is exactly the same. I get the feeling that you must have sat down and thought of some way to discredit religion. Is this the best that you have to offer.



Why are you making unrelated comparisons and expectation on religion. Did you know that many scientists are in fact religious. Why would you expect religion to cure diseases, help with medicines, build computers (which is what I used to do for many years, I am a Christian), or start and help in wars. Religion is an institution that teaches the word of God to anyone who cares to listen. That is essentially it's function and reason for existing. Why do you want it to compete with science?



Well I see nobody here denouncing that fact. Science is a fundamental part of our society. It exists to make our existence more comfortable for us. It needs billions of dollars to achieve that. Nobody is quibbling about that. But that is what science does. Quite why you are pitting religion against science baffles me and leaves me thinking that you are just having a dig at something you don't understand or believe in For the sake of arguing as their is no logic in your argument.



If I contracted a disease I would go to see my doctor and be thankful for anything he could do for me. What I would not expect is for him to jump in his taxi and come and collect me, no more so then I would expect a microbiologist to give a sermon in church. We all play different parts in life's play. If we start to do the acting of others can you imagine the mess we would be in. Nothing you are saying is making any sense.

Ok, my point to you is that science is the prevailing factor for successful civilizations. Not religion. Religion doesn't help with the advancement of man kind, hence, the subject of this thread. Religion is slow dying...

I'm gonna end it here. You clearly have your views set in stone and that's fine.

 

[Cephus]

You call me delusional yet it is you who has set up a blog site specifically to berate christianity for no other reason then you failed at it. That site is full of lies, inaccuracies, and deceit. The term pot, kettle and black comes to mind.

Then by all means, feel free to go over there and point out these "lies, inaccuracies and deceit". Be ready to produce objective evidence for your claims. I predict silence.

 

[Serenity7855]

Ok, my point to you is that science is the prevailing factor for successful civilizations. Not religion. Religion doesn't help with the advancement of man kind, hence, the subject of this thread. Religion is slow dying...

I'm gonna end it here. You clearly have your views set in stone and that's fine.

In all of the time that I have been a christian, I have never heard a christian deny the importance of science, or that it is not a prevailing factor in a successful civilization. It plays a significant part, but it is not the only factor. When combined with everything else that we have, it helps. We do not actually have a successful civilization you know. There are wars in our world. There is famine, cancer, moral decline, crime, paedophiles, poverty and a whole host of things that we are all struggling to keep in check. Just like religion cannot do it on its own, neither can science. We all need each other. Your argument tries to exclude religion just because you are an atheist and do not believe in a deity. Christians have a right to believe. How would you feel if I tried to say that atheists should be made extinct because I believe in God. Lastly, christianity is not dwindling, as you may think. Church attendance is. In the USA 83% of American describe themselves as Christian.

I believe you want to end it because your argument has no basis. I have not aired my views, that you say is set in stone, and many of them are, I have addressed your allegory and found it to be without substance.

 

[Serenity7855]

Then by all means, feel free to go over there and point out these "lies, inaccuracies and deceit". Be ready to produce objective evidence for your claims. I predict silence.

I have been there and I have done that already.

 

[Cephus]

I have been there and I have done that already.

Really? Didn't see you wander by, certainly didn't see your evidence. Might you want to point me to it specifically?