Sorry not to have got back to you earlier. Life happens.
"A god who can’t get his own message across for most of his followers’ history doesn’t seem plausible..." Alex Gabriel.
Now, you see, I don't believe that this has happened. All those who want to hear the message have, in fact, heard it. You seem to be somewhat unfamiliar with the fundamentals of christianity. God has provided a place for us to be tried and tested in the flesh, in accordance to the Plan of Salvation. When Adam fell the world became mortal, so God, being perfect, was unable to personally communicate with his creation ever again, being imperfect. The point is that He has not tried to get his massage accross to us because he cannot. That is the job of the Holy Ghost, who looks for opportunities to testify to our souls that a God lives. The word of God is also, quite literally, written upon our hearts, helping us to find Him. Part of the Plan of Salvation is for us to find Him and His message. But do not feel troubled by your misunderstanding, most Christians do not know that we are here for a particular reason, that there is more to our existence then just life, 3 score and 10 years, and then death. That we agreed to come here under these circumstances and to be tried and tested whilst in the flesh. It is not a fairy story or a fable, though most atheist genuinely think that. It is a perfectly constructed plan with every eventuality being considered. It's complexity is wildly beyond our capability to concieve. We are spiritual being having a mortal experience for a reason which will filter the chaff from the good seeds. Those who recognise they are the seed, and act upon it, will have life eternal in a perfect utopia.But even the disbelievers will be satisfied with their lot, so, there should be no disharmony between atheist and theist. It is merely personal choice.
Take Paul and his rows with various other apostles. Cephas, James and John have a different message. Peter ping pongs between Paul and them. Apollos preachs something else again. That is the before there is even such a thing as Christianity. I won't even mention the messages other Jews were getting from their god that didn't include Jesus. Then you have the Gospels. Third and fourth hand reports that don't agree with one another, let alone what Paul and others were reporting to have had first hand. In the second or third century a chap called Celsus asked Origen, an early theologian, why he should take notice of his god over any other since the story pretty much rips off the tales other cults had told from time immemorial. That remains the problem to this day. The signal is indistinguishable from the noise. How many books in the bible say the end of the world and the fulfillment of god's plan is imminent? The Gospel writers even have Jesus get this wrong. Which brings us to:
I get the impression that you are not totally familiar with the Plan of Salvation. You seem to misunderstand the meaning and reasoning for the existence of Holy Bible. It is not about the characters who wrote the books, or who gave different accounts of differing events that is the focal point. No, it is all about the commandments, instructions, allegories, parable, concepts and principle that are needed for the convertion to Christianity to follow the Teachings of Jesus and His Plan of Redemption. They are hidden in the stories and allegories that you will find their. That Paul wrote his letters is irrelevant, it is the words that God needed to have in the bible. That their are four gospels instead of one, to ensure that the reader has a full account, is nothing to do with who or what the disciples were. It is the message that they contain. By following these teachings we will gain entry into the Kingdom of God. It is a book of commandments Written by men and compiled by the influence of God. What it contains is exactly what God wants it to contain. It certainly is not a historical record. It is not even chronologically correct. The fallacy is in the idea that the writers of the text have any role to play in the purpose of the bible. It is a fallacy that Satan has cunningly and subtlety persuaded mankind to believe. And a very good job he has done. Only if you know the real reason for the existence of the Holy Bible do you know how far from the truth this is.
How many books in the bible says that the end of the world and the fulfillment of god's plan is imminent?
Have you checked it? Not one. The word imminent does not appear in the King James Version of the bible, anywhere. The words "end of the world" appears 16 times but nothing connected to it being imminent. Jesus told us that "of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. Anyone seeking a sign of when it might be is also in serious trouble, "for it is a wicked and adulterous nation that seeketh after a sign"
The signal is indistinguishable, however, only those who recognise the master voice will make the kingdom of God.
How can the dice not be loaded. Everyone mistakes the message that they hear and not a one is able to put what they hear over in a convincing manner. God would know this was likely, he is the designer/creator (or Christ is). When all that is available is poor argument you do not get very far. Two milleniia of history shows Christianity only succeeds on any large scale when it has access to knives and guns. Judaism and Islam have the same sorry template.
Again, you seem to misunderstand the conversion process. Man cannot convert man. It is impossible. Only the Holy Ghost can testify to your soul of the existence of God. Christianity is personal to the individual not the congregation. I cannot give you what I have. The epiphany I received was personal to me. I can share that epiphany but I cannot give the testimony of the Holy Ghost to anybody. It is personal to each individual. Of course God knew it, as did we, it is an essential ingredient in the Plan of Salvation.
Judaism and Islam have the same sorry template. Remember that we were warned about false prophets who would try to deceive the very elect. Again, it is all about the trail of our faith. It is what we agreed to do.
I see no poor arguments for God. His existences is perfectly logical and utterly feasible in every aspect.
No, not when God gets access to knives and guns but when mankind get access to them and tries and act in the name of Christ, though Christ condemns such action. You cannot blame that which men do on Christ, who never sanctioned it. That is unfair
So the grand sum of the saved out of the tens of billions is... five.
Is that really what you thought I was saying. I saw a quote a couple of days ago, given by a representative of the Catholic Church. It said that a quarter of the congregation had been lost to individualism over the last decade. That is a tad more then just five. I am an individualist.
Your doing a lot worse than Paul in your interactions with you interlocutors;
It is a debate and not a conversation.
and he is probably the most obtuse best-selling author in history! Who writes in one of his clearer moments that what he is talking about is foolishness to the wise.
He knew that he was writing the words of God. The words of God are foolishness to the wise, as I hope that I have demonstrated here.
As I wrote earlier, I don't doubt your sincerity; but your attempt at engagement here is having a far more negatve than positive effect. You don't seem to be aware of this but god, if existent in the form you think, must be. QED loaded dice.
I believe that i know different. But we are all entitled to our own opinion. Satan works harder on the truth sayer. For those who have fallen there is little work to do, however, for those who know the truth more effort is required to destabilising them. That is why I wear the full armour of God to protect myself against the fiery darts of Satan. But please do not think that I think you are an adversary to Satan. Most people carry out the work of Satan without even knowing what they are doing. Atheists do not believe in Satan, like the do not believe in God. I am certain that they are clueless as to the part they are playing for Satan. It makes it all the more plausible. Just think about it. Why are you here conversing with me. What business is it of yours that I am a christian. I have not asked you to join me in the waters of baptism. I am not interfering in your life in anyway. So why do you find it necessary to try and discredit and ridicule my personal belief. I am not complaining, neither do I mind, I just want you to consider what is motivating you to be here when there is nothing for you to gain. Could it be Satan?
And not everyone has had or will have the opportunity to hear the Word of God/Plan of Salvation. In all that 103 pages I read through, I didn't find a coherent Plan; as I wrote earlier, I can't get my head around you. Thousands may have looked in but I doubt more than a few dozen read more than a few pages. I doubt three quarters of them could tell you what the Plan is. I'll grant the huge improbability of god for a moment. There are forty odd thousand Christian sects and umpteen more cults worshipping umpteen more gods; none of these sects, cults or gods are more or less likely than any other. How many thousands to one is likelyhood you have the right god, how many tens of thousands to one the right cult and then forty odd thousand to one the right sect? The odds you have been taken in by the embodiment of evil, misdirection and lies in the right cult are much, much, much more likely. I have read the Christian scripture; both coming and going.
Again, if you do not know what the plan of redemption is then why are you here? It is the core of christianity. Unless every single soul recieves the teachings of the Scriptures then the Plan of Redemption cannot work. Do you just think that christians believe in a God because it seems like a good thing to do. Do you think that people dedicate their lives to Christ without having a reason. Is it just a case of being good so that we avoid hell, with no reason for our existence or for being here. As for the numbers of my audience, I am seriously not bothered. I am not 'proselytising or preaching here, I am defending my belief system. Anybody can know the truth of the Gospel but nobody can give it to them, other then the Holy Ghost.
There is not a single faith on this earth who has the express permission from God to act in his name. They are All man made religions based on man's interpretations of scripture. Nowhere did God condone this. You are preaching to the converted. All of these denominations have a piece of the truth but none of them have it all, accept for the individual.
It is easy to read but far more difficult to comprehend. If your lifestyle is not in keeping with the teachings of Christ, then reading the scriptures is only a waste of your time. You need to read with the Holy Ghost, that requires having your life as much in harmony with gospel principles as it can be. As you read like this you will learn about the mind and will of God and your desire to keep his commandments will increase because of the knowledge you will gain. As your knowledge increases, so will your desire and resolution to increase your worthiness, to a point where you will receive sufficient knowledge to be able to stand as a special witness to God almighty. Eventually the words will come alive through the gift of the Holy Ghost He will testify to your very soul, without any doubt, that God lives and loves you. You have read, but you have not heard or understood or persevered.
I don't recognise Paul's god or his christ in the god of the Tanakh or the Gospels. Even if I were a believer I would have to say every Christian from Mark on has been taken in by the Demiurge, the Lord of This World; and you likewise. Possibly Paul misheard or what we have is miscommunicated; but even that supreme being and his hypostases come across as immmoral and unethical.
Well, he is a carnal being, as am I. I am immoral and unethical at times, however, I have the power of prayer and the desire to forsake sin. You talk of Paul and the disciples as though they were akin to Jesus. They were not. They were nothing like Him. They were just everyday men called to serve with Christ. Many complained and *****ed about it. None of them were perfect. The plan of salvation is all about the individual, it is not about ancient people or the authors of the books in the bible. It is about my relationship with God.
Therefore I must beg to disbelieve in them even if they are real. I would have a hard look at yourself and this paraclete your in contact with.
A that paraclete, the Holy Ghost, who has guided and directed me, quite successfully, through my mortal journey. I am the most introspective person that I know. I fought long and hard to disprove christianity before succumbing to its truths, because I could find no critique that could not be logically and satisfactorily answered, and then confirmed by the Holy Ghost. No, that old paraclete has served me well, in my life, and has produced offspring of the same ilk and level of success. But you do not have to invite him into your life. He will not come unless he is asked. So what's the problem?. What is your real concern over the choices that some people make?
John 14: 16, 26
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter , that he may abide with you for ever;
26 But the Comforter , which is the Holy Ghost , whom the Father will send in my name ,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.