"Religion of Peace?"

[Aberamentho]

Naturally Jihad is not the only victim of slander in the Arabic language or of Muslim concepts.

Taqiyya is the newest, is not a license to lie whenever to whoever, and is reserved for situations any decent human would decline to be honest.

For example, someone wants to murder your friend, you are aware of this and know where your friend is. The would be murderer asks you, "Where is he/she?"

Do you tell this person how to find and murder your friend?

Obviously not. That's an example of Taqiyya.

It won't stop morons from taking to the internet to spread lies, but those lies are NOT taqiyya, just regular ugly sinful lies.

Lying ABOUT taqiyya, these morons don't even realize they are the liars, and worse than any Muslim practice called or covered under taqiyya.

Which is what makes them morons.

It is certainly one of the most dishonorable things within Islam, to lie is to be unworthy of trust, and you will not be trusted accordingly, based on your history of lying or not, going back to Sunnah chains of transmission in Ahadith and further.


Let's compare the official, Canonical position on lying, according to Paul, Chief theologian of the New Testament for Christians:

Romans 3:5-7

But if our Injustice serves to confirm the justice of God, what should we say? That God is to inflict wrath upon us?(I speak in human way).

Stop.

Before I move on, a few things. Injustice is incapable of proving the justice of God, whether you caused it as I am sure Paul did, or you are on the receiving end of Injustice, Injustice is not of God, and itself is not confirmation that God is just. How could it be? God has to now make up for this Injustice in order to confirm that He is just, the making up is the confirmation, and not the injustice. Paul doesn't mention this though. He is about to tell you God's wrath is just as a means of judgement, and thus necessary. Nothing about making up for Injustice though.

6. By no means! For how, then, could God judge the world? 7. But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to His glory, why am I still being judged a sinner?

Paul has just confessed to telling lies, falsehoods. He claims by his falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to His glory. And that his peers consider him a liar and sinner but he feels he is justified in lying because somehow it makes God's truthfulness abound to His glory.


God doesn't need Paul's lies in order for His truthfulness to abound to His glory. He doesn't need Paul period, or anyone, period. He certainly doesn't need falsehoods for any reason, and they are called lies, lies are usually sins. Always when involving God in them.


What is important here?

Paul confessed to lying, falsehoods are also called lies. This is Christian doctrine, Romans. The Bible.

He gives the impression it is possible to glorify God by lying. He actually flat out says it.

Paul was "condemned" for it. I would say by James and Peter, because Paul lied to James' face at the last meeting in Jerusalem about his teachings regarding Mosaic Law. And Paul accuses, without evidence, Peter of being a hypocrite and Barnabas, who we know left Paul in favor of J. Mark.

But condemned is how he put it.

Because he was a liar, an advocate of lying and involving God (like Eusebius).

It's Christian Scripture, literally, that lying can glorify God.

And not Islamic at all. Islam doesn't approve of lying unless it us absolutely necessary to protect someone.

Lying about God...is about the worst thing you can do.

So why isn't Paul being blamed for all the lies told by Christians in 2,000 years?

Why are Islamaphobes not equally or more harsh on Paul? Who in his own writing advocated and admitted to lying "for God"?

 

[Aberamentho]

Do you think anyone really cares what you think ?

The words of a defeated man.

You did care, you replied, and tried like hell to get away with lying and got caught.

You care at least enough to respond to my comments until you had literally nothing left to say, because you got sick of getting caught lying you stopped.

It doesn't matter what I think. Not for you.

 

[Aberamentho]

Do you think anyone really cares what you think ?

What is really important here is you are resorting to sassing now, because you realize you can not do anything but lie, that I will catch and expose you, and that the tone of your message is suggestive of how bitter you are.

 

[Aberamentho]

And yet, you're a Christian.

Oh I'm sorry, you don't believe that the bible is just as brutal, suppresses and brutalizes women, glorifies discrimination and is inherently violent. My mistake. I guess only Christians can interpret their bible as being more of the bronze age crap written in its pages, not Muslims.

As I said earlier, the Bible is NC-17 to the Qur'an's PG.

It's not an overstatement either. Womens rights are a part of the Qur'an including the introduction into society of the right of women to own property and divorce, as well as be bequeathed an inheritance and be a witness in court. And more.

 

[Brickjectivity]

***Mod: Reminder rule 1 of forum rules. Please do not call other posters 'Liars'. Thanks!***

1. Personal Comments About Members and Staff
Personal attacks and name-calling, whether direct or in the third person, are strictly prohibited on the forums. Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other or the staff. Quoting a member's post in a separate/new thread without their permission to challenge or belittle them, or harassing staff members for performing moderation duties, will also be considered a personal attack.

 

[Aberamentho]

Compare that to Paul's position on women.

 

[shmogie]

The words of a defeated man.

You did care, you replied, and tried like hell to get away with lying and got caught.

It doesn't matter what I think. Not for you.

lol, the words of a delusional man, since I told the absolute truth, and quoted it, you think your squeakings somehow change what your prophet said, nope. To deny, deny, deny in the face of solid evidence your position is nonsense, doesn't change the fact that your position is nonsense. You totally ignored the quotation re believers existing because of conversion or COERCION. Does that mean you don't know what coercion means ? Shall I quote to you a number of Sikh commentaries about your fellow moslems and their attempts by torture and murder to "convert" them ? It was a-ok though, they were fulfilling the will of allah
'

 

[shmogie]

Compare that to Paul's position on women.

Well, Paul said that before Gods eyes there was no Jew or Greek (race) or male or female, they were all equal. No woman was required to wear certain clothes, no woman was required to eat separately from men, no woman was told she couldn't go out by herself, no woman was blamed for being raped, marriage was considered an equal partnership requiring consultation between between wives and husbands, before the husband as head of the family made any major decision How far do you want to go with this ? How about Christ and women................. a very interesting study of value and involvement. You will be happy to learn that a group of Saudi biology professors (all male) recently declared that women were in fact mammals, though not equal to men

 

[shmogie]

What is really important here is you are resorting to sassing now, because you realize you can not do anything but lie, that I will catch and expose you, and that the tone of your message is suggestive of how bitter you are.

What is really important here is you are resorting to sassing now, because you realize you can not do anything but lie, that I will catch and expose you, and that the tone of your message is suggestive of how bitter you are.

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZ gulp. huh, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[J2hapydna]

I wonder, how did you come to such a conclusion? I can think of a few ways but I may be wrong

Well, it seems to fit history and might be the thing some universal god may want to do to check the cruel tribal self serving megalomanical tyrants in the Persian and Byzantine empires at the time. So the Axumite Empire was spared for having a just and tolerant ruler who was kind to MP and his followers, but the Koresh was raised with the cruel Ummayds at the helm to check the excesses of the Persian and Byzantine empires.

What ways?

 

[Aberamentho]

And yet, you're a Christian.

Oh I'm sorry, you don't believe that the bible is just as brutal, suppresses and brutalizes women, glorifies discrimination and is inherently violent. My mistake. I guess only Christians can interpret their bible as being more of the bronze age crap written in its pages, not Muslims.

Some quick facts I also want to share.

Since you mentioned brutalizing women I will concentrate on women. It is true the Qur'an forbids a man to hurt a woman yet allows a man to strike his wife provided he doesn't cause any harm.

In my eyes it's impossible and if my wife even asked I would never get the slightest bit physically rough with her. So the one should logically, today if not then also, forbid the other.

Brutalization is not allowed. No verse could justify it in light of the command to not cause physical harm, pretty much leaving it to spanking or something, still not cool if you ask me but moving on.


While the Bible has Eve responsible for the fall of man called by later Christian theologians "original sin." Basically blaming women for the state of mankind, for death. Literally actually, even in Genesis it is Eve who is tricked.


In the Qur'an blame is shared equally 100%. Neither is more responsible than the other.

The Virgin Mary is mentioned more times in the Qur'an than in the entire New Testament. She is more honored having been raised by a good Jewish family, educated in the Temple. Like in the Apocryphal account, Pseudo-Matthew, I believe. There are 2 Apocryphal accounts of her youth, several others including an Apocalypse. All suppressed until a few centuries ago.

And women are guaranteed the right to marry who they choose. I don't know how arranged marriages work but I can't imagine they are not allowed to say no, and I know in most places marriage is not arranged at all and women can propose to men.

It sounds crazy considering the images we recieve here, but Muslim women are not oppressed unless you are talking about certain countries, Saudi Arabia, which is controlled by Britain and America, and Iran.

Women have a very honored role in Islam.

 

[shmogie]

I'm just wondering how other RFers feel about @Aberamentho 's constant barrage of ad hominems? I'd ask him directly, but I cannot.

He was warned, did not heed it, was reported, and has been told. He doesn't know what ad hominem means, like he apparently doesn't know what civilized means

 

[shmogie]

Some quick facts I also want to share.

Since you mentioned brutalizing women I will concentrate on women. It is true the Qur'an forbids a man to hurt a woman yet allows a man to strike his wife provided he doesn't cause any harm.

In my eyes it's impossible and if my wife even asked I would never get the slightest bit physically rough with her. So the one should logically, today if not then also, forbid the other.

Brutalization is not allowed. No verse could justify it in light of the command to not cause physical harm, pretty much leaving it to spanking or something, still not cool if you ask me but moving on.


While the Bible has Eve responsible for the fall of man called by later Christian theologians "original sin." Basically blaming women for the state of mankind, for death. Literally actually, even in Genesis it is Eve who is tricked.


In the Qur'an blame is shared equally 100%. Neither is more responsible than the other.

The Virgin Mary is mentioned more times in the Qur'an than in the entire New Testament. She is more honored having been raised by a good Jewish family, educated in the Temple. Like in the Apocryphal account, Pseudo-Matthew, I believe. There are 2 Apocryphal accounts of her youth, several others including an Apocalypse. All suppressed until a few centuries ago.

And women are guaranteed the right to marry who they choose. I don't know how arranged marriages work but I can't imagine they are not allowed to say no, and I know in most places marriage is not arranged at all and women can propose to men.

It sounds crazy considering the images we recieve here, but Muslim women are not oppressed unless you are talking about certain countries, Saudi Arabia, which is controlled by Britain and America, and Iran.

Women have a very honored role in Islam.

Christians don;t consider women the cause of original sin, I don't know where you got that idea. Suppressed ? Not part of the NT 1900 years ago. From Iraq come photo's of dead women half buried in the dirt with broken heads and faces, who did that ? So you can beat your wife, yet not brutalize her, hmmmmm, who decides if she has been brutalized ? Tell me about sharia and rape. Who is responsible for a rape ? how are the punished ? Tell me about moslem men raping non moslem women, in the true faith, what does that mean ? Oh, one more thing, please tell me about honor killings of women
and girls, what's that all about ? Are boys or men ever killed in honor killings ?

 

[J2hapydna]

I don't apologize for calling someone who accused a Muslim of being an IS collaborator an idiot. I forgive you though. And hope for a new start, otherwise

Which Muslim did I accuse of being an ISIS collaborator? Give me a post number in which I did this. LOL

 

[Augustus]

or all Mexicans MS-13.

MS 13 is a Salvadorian gang

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Obviously you are speaking of the Old Testament. Well, instead of spewing generalities which mean squat, produce specifics. Your opinion is like a rectum, we all have one

The NT justifies the OT, the OT is full of genocides, brutality, misogyny, homophobia, intolerance toward people of other faiths, etc etc. Also the bible ends with a threat of one more genocide where any non-Christian will be killed.

Point being that both Christians and Jews can and have managed to behave peacefully despite the violence of the bible. As do the vast majority of Muslims. So I'm pretty tired of the rectal-like generalities against Islamic beliefs that go on in this forum.

 

[Augustus]

Unless you're a woman.

Or a Shiite.

Or a foreign worker from the developing world (especially a maid).

Or someone takes a dislike to you and tells the authorities you are a sorcerer.

 

[icehorse]

The NT justifies the OT, the OT is full of genocides, brutality, misogyny, homophobia, intolerance toward people of other faiths, etc etc. Also the bible ends with a threat of one more genocide where any non-Christian will be killed.

Point being that both Christians and Jews can and have managed to behave peacefully despite the violence of the bible. As do the vast majority of Muslims. So I'm pretty tired of the rectal-like generalities against Islamic beliefs that go on in this forum.

When was the last time you heard a Muslim criticizing the Quran?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

When was the last time you heard a Muslim criticizing the Quran?

Once ahain, your interpretation of the Qur'an isnt the interpretation. They can and often do criticize your interpretation. This is no different than Christians or Jews who criticize interpretations they feel are wrong.

 

[shmogie]

The NT justifies the OT, the OT is full of genocides, brutality, misogyny, homophobia, intolerance toward people of other faiths, etc etc. Also the bible ends with a threat of one more genocide where any non-Christian will be killed.

Point being that both Christians and Jews can and have managed to behave peacefully despite the violence of the bible. As do the vast majority of Muslims. So I'm pretty tired of the rectal-like generalities against Islamic beliefs that go on in this forum.

The islamic faith is clear for anyone who takes the time to read it's holy books or study it's history. The truth may make you sting, and tire you but facts are facts. I asked for specific examples in the OT to support your generalized comments, again you respond with more empty generalities. What do you mean by the NT "justifies" the OT ? Define your term, it is unclear to me. You do understand, don't you, that the book of Revelation has a significant amount of allegory ? If you take it literally, then you must believe in dragons, beasts covered with eyes, leopards with wings, etc. I don't think you want to discuss the issues. , I think you just want to be what the Bible calls "the accuser of the Bretheren" Further, I suspect you see all faiths as the same, and want to press a moral equivilency between islam and the other major faiths on the planet, of course with Christianity at the top of your list. Morally islam cannot stand with any of the major faiths, it is very deficient in morality in comparison.