"Religion of Peace?"

[icehorse]

Even if you just included Baptists and dismissed Presbytarian and orthodox Catholics that alone would be 50 million. So it should be much more.

You want to triple it to 150 million? sure!

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You want to triple it to 150 million? sure!

Orthodox Catholic alone is more times than that. Again though, we're going to disagree over sharia being something akin to fundamentalism (however that works) to the majority of Muslims. Also depends on how you're re qualifying fundamentalism.

 

[RESOLUTION]

It seems like in Isaiah 19 he promised to provide them a savior too. No?

He promised that he would save the Gentiles raising up the Messiah from the descendants of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob

Read Moses teachings Deuteronomy 18. Anyone not a Jew is a gentile.

Islam does not follow the Jewish religion or the Christian religion.
They are therefore gentile but they are not part of either covenant.

They do not worship YHWH and they do not practice the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Therefore they are not the people of God and have no covenant with the Messiah.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Because:

1. Tower 7 was never hit by a plane, neither was the Pentagon or that field in Pennsylvania. Yet tower 7 inexplicably (using valid science anyway) "collapsed"(was demolished).

2. Plane crashes were accounted for in the construction of the twin towers. Regardless of that it is scientific a fact that the planes did not cause the collapse.

There wasn't enough heat to melt steel to make it collapse and both were controlled demolitions.


Apparently you either work for the government or live in a cave.

It WAS terrorism, just not by Muslims.

If you have yet to learn about this I question your intelligence and everything you say is unreliable because you are either gullible or a biggot who is refusing to let go of an excuse to hate someone even if it means remaining (deliberately) ignorant of what really happened.

From your misinterpretation of Quranic verses used to support your theories/agenda, my money is not on gullible.

Seriously though what kind of fool are you, and do you think you are fooling anyone who isn't as big a fool as you with your hate-speech?

Futile, fools are becoming a majority anyway.

7:59 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 767 carrying 81 passengers and 11 crew members, departs 14 minutes late from Logan International Airport in Boston, bound for Los Angeles International Airport. Five hijackers are aboard.

8:14: United Airlines Flight 175, a Boeing 767, carrying 56 passengers and nine crew members, departs 14 minutes late from Logan International Airport in Boston, bound for Los Angeles International Airport. Five hijackers are aboard.

8:14: Flight 11 is hijacked over central Massachusetts, turning southwest.

8:20: American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 with 58 passengers and six crew members, departs 10 minutes late from Washington Dulles International Airport, for Los Angeles International Airport. Five hijackers are aboard.

8:42: United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757 with 37 passengers and seven crew members, departs 42 minutes late from Newark International Airport, bound for San Francisco International Airport. Four hijackers are aboard.

8:42–8:46 (approx.): Flight 175 is hijacked above Albany, New York, about 140 miles north of New York City, turning south.

8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes into the north face of the North Tower (1 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 93 and 99. The aircraft enters the tower intact.

8:50–8:54 (approx.): Flight 77 is hijacked above southern Ohio, turning to the southeast.

9:03:00: Flight 175 crashes into the south face of the South Tower (2 WTC) of the World Trade Center, between floors 77 and 85. Parts of the plane, including the starboard engine, leave the building from its east and north sides, falling to the ground six blocks away.

9:28: Flight 93 is hijacked above northern Ohio, turning to the southeast.

9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of The Pentagon and starts a violent fire.

9:59:00: The South Tower of the World Trade Center collapses, 56 minutes after the impact of Flight 175.

10:03:11: Flight 93 is crashed by its hijackers and passengers, due to fighting in the cockpit 80 miles (129 km) southeast of Pittsburgh in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. Later reports indicate that passengers had learned about the World Trade Center and Pentagon crashes and were resisting the hijackers. The 9/11 Commission believed that Flight 93's target was either the United States Capitol building or the White House in Washington, D.C.

10:28:22: The North Tower of the World Trade Center collapses, 1 hour, 42 minutes after the impact of Flight 11. The Marriott Hotel, located at the base of the two towers, is also destroyed.

10:50:19: Five stories of part of the Pentagon collapse due to the fire.

5:20:33 p.m.: 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building, collapses.

There is the events and time line of the planes and them being flown into the twin towers and the pentagon.

Now the history books show that previously the terrorist had tried to plant explosives. There is nothing stopping people in any of those buildings who were terrorist planting bombs in specific locations to bring down a building. You trying to say that the rest did not in anyway contribute to the building coming down that day?
I know all about the buildings structure AND that it should never have collapsed. But people don't expect planes carry fuel to such a high capacity to be flown through a building.
But there was nothing to say terrorist never planted bombs to bring the building down just to ensure they killed as many as possible.

As I am not American and was clearly responding to the 'twin towers' having never visited America or the locations you could have been more honest about what you
were referring to. I clearly was referring to the twin towers the building you are responding to was not the towers. Though I had only see the two towers come down and you knew I was speaking about the towers which planes flew into.

I have nothing to hide I have not mislead anyone. You did, you knew we were speaking at cross purposes but not honest enough just to point it out.

My error was due to not being native of AMERICA and speaking about the twin towers.
Yours was deliberately done to mislead and never at any time did you bother to say " I am not referring to the twin towers, which you obviously are."
It has also straightened up for me why they argued about the building collapsing. A critical internal column buckled making the support of the structure impossible.

However the attacks I referred to was clearly the planes going into the buildings. Thank you for proving my point of how you twist things to try and move the goal post.

My posts were correct because I was referring to the twin towers and the planes which crashed into them.

I am sure you set a trap but have fell into it yourself. My posts were clearly discussing the towers where planes flew into them.
And you also claim the pentagon not hit by a plane which furthermore increased the fact you were twisting things. Because the Pentagon was hit by a plane.

Now all you have done is proved what I have said from the beginning about you.

You twist and include things not spoken about and even deny the truth of what really happened.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Actually:

El, Ilah, are Hebrew and Arabic words meaning deity/god.

Elohim is the proper name of the Hebrew God. From Eloha/Alah (a=e in Hebrew, drop the vowel as originally none were used and you get Alah).

In Arabic it is Al-Ilah or Allah, The God.

All are derived from the Ugaritic "Illu."

So yeah, only in your dreams are they NOT the same God. Abrahamic religions all worship the God of Abraham. You must be some powerful dude if you can decide who God is and isn't without knowing all (or any) of the facts.

And force people to not worship Him with the power of wishful thinking

Islam has the same Prophets, God and shares some stories with Judaism and Christianity both, minus Paul.

And you are just wishing it wasn't true out of bias or biggotry. Any religious scholar or theologian from the 3 religions who isn't a lying extremist will tell you the same thing.

Making you look kind of ridiculous.

You just said a fact wasn't a fact, and your reason is that is what you wish were true.

But Abrahamic means what it means, and the 3 religions acknowledge they share the same God, even if they don't agree on other things.

You have no power to change that unless you choose to be a fanatic, even then it's still a delusion.

“Yahweh is built on the words " I am "

Elohim (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים‎ ’ĕlōhîm) is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deity"

So God YHWH is 'I am' and is not allah.

You see No matter what you do you cannot make allah into Yhwh.

Allah is either the name of a god or a word which means god. It refers to the god of Islam.

But YHWH is the God and the ONLY GOD of the Jews and Christians. No point in persuing it. Your God still to show up.

 

[Notanumber]

The obvious thing that strikes me is that all these fundamentalists from other faiths are managing to keep a much lower profile than islamics.

 

[J2hapydna]

He promised that he would save the Gentiles raising up the Messiah from the descendants of Abraham. Isaac and Jacob

The most important aspects of the savior described in the Bible is the fulfilling of the prophecies that I have described. These conditions have not come about at any other time in the last 2,000 years. It is impossible if not highly unlikely that they ever will again. It is shocking that it even happened once. We are talking about a time when half the Jews are compelled to leave Jerusalem after an earthquake splits the temple, darkness falls on the earth, a plague kills the other half etc. Then the Asians and Africans unite in a religion at a temple on the border of Egypt etc. etc. In the meantime be aware that the biblical god also challenges all false gods in Isaiah 19: 12 that no other god but he can predict the future so precisely.

Read Moses teachings Deuteronomy 18. Anyone not a Jew is a gentile.

Yes I'm aware of all that. Just because the savior did not go around slapping people in the face with this fact as if that was the most important aspect of the prophecy doesn't make him less but more of the person promised in the Bible.

MP would be the proverbial thief in the night. I think we are all aware that Onias IV was busy building temples in Egypt to fulfill that prophecy in Isaiah 19. He was as Jewish as they come. Prophet Zechariah speaks about a descendant of Joshua the high priest, that would include Onias IV and his descendants, who would become as a brand plucked from the fire (of paganism) and given dominion over the world. Similarly Koresh is described as the servant who didn't know God by Daniel. So we can SPECULATE that Koresh and MP were the descendants of this priestly line. They would have become members of the Ishmaelite nation by marrying into them with the goal of fulfilling Isaiah 19. After all, Jews began to lose track of this family after booting them from the temple in Jerusalem in the days of the Maccabbees . The Romans demonstrated no love towards them after burning down their temple in Leontopolis. So they rose up where we left them building temples in Egypt and its border to fulfill the prophecy they had always wanted to fulfill. It makes sense to me

The Arab historians actually record that Koresh had scriptures but lost them in a flood when the temple treasures were hidden near the well of Zam Zam. In which case, they were Jewish priests who took care of the temple but who had become overwhelmed by the surrounding pagans. Hubal by the way, was the main god of the Koresh. He practiced divination- a feature of the Jewish priesthood. Once again this would be speculation. MP didn't say he was the descendant of Onias IV. However, Y DNA studies are beginning to confirm that the Koresh are the most closely paternally related tribe of gentiles to the Jewish priesthood. The separation between the Cohanim and Koresh is between a thousand and 4,000 years. To put that into perspective the separation between the average European and Cohanim is close to 35,000 years. So the Koresh can no longer be precluded from being considered descendants of the Jewish priests anymore.

Islam does not follow the Jewish religion or the Christian religion.
They are therefore gentile but they are not part of either covenant.

Islam is a Din - a family of religions that encompasses Judaism Christianity and Sabianism etc. what you describe as Islam is the Ishmaelite Shariah a half measure created by them when they didn't understand the Bible

They do not worship YHWH and they do not practice the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Therefore they are not the people of God and have no covenant with the Messiah.

Allah is a term for god used by preIslamic Christians for God. He is the god who fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah 19 that the god of the Bible claimed no other could in 19:12

So far the main difference between the god you worship and mine is that mine has demonstrably fulfilled prophecy and yours hasn't. Also, yours appears to be a racist who wants to slap his tribal identity in everyone's face but mine doesn't

 

[RESOLUTION]

How can one make a cell phone call at 30,000 feet flying at 400 MPH?

What did they use to hear the astronauts speak from the moon?
Did they really hit their targets flying at 30,000 feet? At 30,000 feet it may have had a momentarily connection but the planes did not maintain the 30.000 feet if they had the buildings
would still be here.

According to films in America they can make calls from the plane. Or is that all made up too?

These were local flights they hi-jacked as far as I am aware. But they did not maintain 30,000 feet constantly and would easily have been able to use the phones before
any point of impact.

 

[RESOLUTION]

The most important aspects of the savior described in the Bible is the fulfilling of the prophecies that I have described. These conditions have not come about at any other time in the last 2,000 years. It is impossible if not highly unlikely that they ever will again. It is shocking that it even happened once. We are talking about a time when half the Jews are compelled to leave Jerusalem after an earthquake splits the temple, darkness falls on the earth, a plague kills the other half etc. Then the Asians and Africans unite in a religion at a temple on the border of Egypt etc. etc. In the meantime be aware that the biblical god also challenges all false gods in Isaiah 19: 12 that no other god but he can predict the future so precisely.



Yes I'm aware of all that. Just because the savior did not go around slapping people in the face with this fact as if that was the most important aspect of the prophecy doesn't make him less but more of the person promised in the Bible.

MP could be the proverbial thief in the night. I think we are all aware that Onias IV was busy building temples in Egypt to fulfill that prophecy in Isaiah 19. He was as Jewish as they come. Prophet Zechariah speaks about a descendant of Joshua the high priest, that would include Onias IV and his descendants, who would become as a brand plucked from the fire (of paganism) and given dominion over the world. Similarly Koresh is described as the servant who didn't know God. So we can could SPECULATE that Koresh and MP were the descendants of this priestly line. They would have become members of the Ishmaelite nation by marrying into them with the goal of fulfilling Isaiah 19. After all, Jews began to lose track of this family after booting them from the temple in Jerusalem in the days of the Maccabbees . The Romans demonstrated no love towards them after burning down their temple in Leontopolis.

The Arab historians actually record that Koresh had scriptures but lost them in a flood when the temple treasures were hidden near the well of Zam Zam. In which case, they were Jewish priests who took care of the temple but who had become overwhelmed by the surrounding pagans. Hubal by the way, was the main god of the Koresh. He practiced divination- a feature of the Jewish priesthood. Once again this would be speculation. MP didn't say he was the descendant of Onias IV. However, Y DNA studies are beginning to confirm that the Koresh are the most closely paternally related tribe of gentiles to the Jewish priesthood. The separation between the Cohanim and Koresh is between a thousand and 4,000 years. To put that into perspective the separation between the average European and Cohanim is close to 35,000 years. So the Koresh can no longer be precluded from being considered descendants of the Jewish priests anymore.



Islam is a Din - a family of religions that encompasses Judaism and Judaism, Sabianism etc



Allah is a term for god used by preIslamic Christians for God. He is the god who fulfilled the prophecy in Isaiah 19 that the god of the Bible claimed no other could in 19:12

So far the main difference between the god you worship and mine is that mine has demonstrably fulfilled prophecy and yours hasn't. Also, yours appears to be a racist who wants to slap his tribal identity in everyone's face but mine doesn't

Mumbo Jumbo best suits the contents of your post. The basic of Gods Covenants and his chosen never changed.
You can make all the mumbo jumbo up you want but it won't be the truth.

 

[J2hapydna]

Mumbo Jumbo best suits the contents of your post. The basic of Gods Covenants and his chosen never changed.
You can make all the mumbo jumbo up you want but it won't be the truth.

The truth is as Bertrand Russell describes it, the fulfillment of a clearly written complex prophecy that predicts the future that nobody should be able to predict. Isaiah 19 and Matt 24 are two such prophesies that were fulfilled by MP. This, mine did and yours didn't. Everything else is mumbo jumbo.

 

[J2hapydna]

Mumbo Jumbo best suits the contents of your post. The basic of Gods Covenants and his chosen never changed.

Nobody said they did. Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[shmogie]

Good point but the unchanged Sharia isn't implemented in too many countries either. So it's irrelevant for now. However, you are right it can be extremely dangerous

Perhaps the next time Muslims are polled about whether they want Shariah or not, the pollsters should also ask do they want it the way it is in the books or do they want it reformed. That would give a more accurate percentage of shariaists in the Islamic world.

I believe MP was promised in the Bible in passages such as Isaiah 19, Matt 24, Dan 10 and Isaiah 44 etc. once those conditions fell upon the earth (darkness, fall in temperatures, plague, volcanoes, death, wars) and MP rose and fulfilled the prophecies of erecting a temple on the border of Egypt, defeated the Persians and Greeks, united the people of Assyria and Egypt and returned the Jews to Jerusalem, the average Christians including those such as the ruler of Ethiopia accepted him as the promised savior.

MPs purpose was to demonstrate that God of the Bible could predict the future. He achieved his purpose

Once MP passed away, the psychopath Umayyads replaced the equally mad and insane Heraclius and Chosroes as the new tyrants in the region. The Koresh did not know God according to Dan 10. They were deployed by God as servants of God to push back the Persians and Greeks so the Jews wouldn't be exterminated and could return to Jerusalem . They weren't chosen for having knowledge about God or his religion. They did their job of humiliating the Persians and Greeks for being insanely cruel to the Jews. Beyond that they really have no knowledge of what MP was teaching. The Umayyads weren't very close to MP and had killed those who were during bloody occupations of both Medina and Mecca. They also imprisoned those who disagreed with them. So what the Umayyads created sometimes contradicts the Quran and at other times combines what they found the Christians practicing under the Justinian code and from their pagan past.

Islam is not a new religion. It refers to a family of faiths that includes Judaism and Christianity as well as Ishmaeliteism. It's basic message is do not to be an extremist. It wants all the nations of the world to worship god thru whichever religion they want as long as they don't practice extreme cruelty when they do it. They are welcome to call this creator by any name as long as it is a beautiful and wholesome name.

I LOVE what you have written ! But, is this reality ? I can't seem to be able to square your words with the hadith and koran, and history seems to tell a different story. Can you help me with this?

 

[shmogie]

I answered that question in the first page of this thread. "Religion of Peace?"

Well, you actually gave two answers, essentially yes/no. My Question is simple, based on your reading of the koran and hadith, do you find islam a peaceful religion ? I will ask another very simple question, based upon your reading of The New Testament ( the foundation and principles of the Christian faith) do you find Christianity a peaceful religion ?[/QUOTE] I am not asking about the actions or histories of either faith, I am simply asking if the foundation documents of each faith are peaceful, or not.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Well, you actually gave two answers, essentially yes/no. My Question is simple, based on your reading of the koran and hadith, do you find islam a peaceful religion ? I will ask another very simple question, based upon your reading of The New Testament ( the foundation and principles of the Christian faith) do you find Christianity a peaceful religion ? I am not asking about the actions or histories of either faith, I am simply asking if the foundation documents of each faith are peaceful, or not.

I don't think the religion is the same thing as the text. Religion is a practice. So asking me whether the quran or the bible is peaceful is not the same as asking whether Islam or Christianity is peaceful.
I dont believe the bible is peaceful, and i refuse to omit the OT because the NT refers back to it, not to mention it's the same God. I don't believe the idea of 'one faith will survive everyone else will die,' which I believe is represented by 'judgement day is peaceful. I also don't believe the notion of Hell and is peaceful. I also don't believe Paul's instruction was peaceful, particularly on women or gays.

But none of this has to do with whether Christians are peaceful. Similarly with Muslims. And, I repeat, my interpretation is not held by me as anything more than my interpretation. I do not superimpose it on the beliefs of others.

Edit: Happy birthday, by the way.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The obvious thing that strikes me is that all these fundamentalists from other faiths are managing to keep a much lower profile than islamics.

You mean you don't see them popping up in English news. As other faiths have been and continue to justify oppressive rules and human rights issues. From Hinduism to Buddhism to various African tribal religions to Shintoism having had been used to be the very backbone of Japanese military expansion behavior et all. But because when they are not at war with us, we largely ignore their extremists.

 

[Notanumber]

You mean you don't see them popping up in English news. As other faiths have been and continue to justify oppressive rules and human rights issues. From Hinduism to Buddhism to various African tribal religions to Shintoism having had been used to be the very backbone of Japanese military expansion behavior et all. But because when they are not at war with us, we largely ignore their extremists.

Those that are at war with us are the ones that I am concerned out, whether they are radical or not.

 

[sovietchild]

What did they use to hear the astronauts speak from the moon?
Did they really hit their targets flying at 30,000 feet? At 30,000 feet it may have had a momentarily connection but the planes did not maintain the 30.000 feet if they had the buildings
would still be here.

According to films in America they can make calls from the plane. Or is that all made up too?

These were local flights they hi-jacked as far as I am aware. But they did not maintain 30,000 feet constantly and would easily have been able to use the phones before
any point of impact.

One of the callers called from the cell phone when the airplane was at 30,000 feet cruising at 500 MPH.

And, what about the passport that was found? How can a a building that is made of steel collapse after burning only for 1 hour?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Those that are at war with us are the ones that I am concerned out, whether they are radical or not.

At the moment I'm more concerned about the radical atheists of North Korea than all the radical Muslims in the middle east, to be honest.

 

[Notanumber]

At the moment I'm more concerned about the radical atheists of North Korea than all the radical Muslims in the middle east, to be honest.

We haven’t invited the North Koreans into our countries though.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

We haven’t invited the North Koreans into our countries though.

And yet I still think the North Koreans way over there are a larger danger than ME migrants here.
Actually I think we are a bigger danger to ourselves than them.
Also fatty foods.
And smooth sided bath tubs.