Religion spreads hate & intolerance

[OmarKhayyam]

"Would you be okay with Christians who did not follow the Constantinian example?"

I have no idea what such a person is. But at its heart the mythology REQUIRES a believe or burn attitude.

 

[idea]

" And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.
"
As a matter of simple logic that does NOT follow. We need no invisible fairy god-father to tell us what works as an ethical principal and what does not. Several thousand years of civilization have given us the evidence for that.

More than that. matter of existance. Theory of relativity. Opposites define one another. Good does not exist without evil.

relativity - take velocity (a relative concept). If there are not two objects going in opposite directions, v is not zero, is not undefined, velocity literally does not exist in any form. Hard thought experiment – think of everything condensed into a singularity – no space around the object, nothing outside of the object – everything is the object. This is existence without opposition. It is not really an existence at all is it?

Good and evil are relative terms. There is no good without evil.

 

[idea]

"Would you be okay with Christians who did not follow the Constantinian example?"

I have no idea what such a person is. But at its heart the mythology REQUIRES a believe or burn attitude.

I am not a constantinian Christian.

as far as hell:
LDS.org - Ensign Article - Our Father’s Plan—Big Enough for All His Children

we trust that somehow good will be the final goal of ill.
That nothing walks with aimless feet;
That not one life shall be destroy’d,
Or cast as rubbish to the void,
When God hath made the pile complete.15

 

[Azakel]

So true, religion infuriates me, because it causes so much war, adn people say not to pay attention to that, and pay attention to the love, how loving is killing billions of people, including babies?

Humans cause war and death and all that. Religion is just the tool, the excuse they use for it. But that does not mean that religion is the fault. I would say learn more about religion a then come back here and say that without such a swiping generalization.
I give the OP credit that he called out the religion he has a problem with and said he didn't know about all the other ^_^ that's something we don't all was get here.

 

[idea]

for the sake of trolling, Murambi was not a religious conflict. It was ethnic in origin. The Hutu and the Tutsi were of the same religion, yet the massacres in Rwanda were carried out with a zeal that rivals even the darkest Crusade or Pogrom. What is sad about this, for the most part, those who spoke out were the same ones accused by the atheist mindset of gross zeal for violence.

everything is religious if God exists and allows it.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Amen.

posted this before. For the newbie:



too many words are misunderstood.

Ah, the irony.

From a mythology that for nearly 2000 yrs. has opposed virtually EVERY scientific discovery.

There is a reason they were called the Dark Ages and the end was marked by the EnLIGHTenment.

 

[J Bryson]

" And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.
"
As a matter of simple logic that does NOT follow. We need no invisible fairy god-father to tell us what works as an ethical principal and what does not. Several thousand years of civilization have given us the evidence for that.

I do agree with this to an extent. However, there are those who for whatever reason find the idea of a deity or deities to be both comforting and inspiring. This seems inherent in human society, and I doubt that it will disappear anytime soon. Therefore, I would think that it would be more productive to encourage positive expressions of religious sentiment than it would be to rail against religion as a whole.

I'm tempted to do a one-on-one debate with you regarding the merits of religion. You approach the matter with a certain intelligence, and I think that we might have much to learn from each other in the process.

 

[J Bryson]

"Would you be okay with Christians who did not follow the Constantinian example?"

I have no idea what such a person is. But at its heart the mythology REQUIRES a believe or burn attitude.

Only with the most fundamental and literalist interpretation.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"everything is religious if God exists and allows it.'

Then bring your god around for a chat. A few questions will settle this entire matter.

 

[Riverwolf]

Ah, the irony.

From a mythology that for nearly 2000 yrs. has opposed virtually EVERY scientific discovery.

There is a reason they were called the Dark Ages and the end was marked by the EnLIGHTenment.

Indeed. The Middle Ages were the Dark Ages. No debate here.

But the mythology was the idea that the Hebrews had for how the world came to be, and there is an element of truth to it, if you look at it from an allegorical perspective. I'm sure you've heard that one before, so here's a non-Christian telling you.

For example, the fall of man could be seen as a retelling of the "fall" from hunter-gathering to farming.

Heck, meaning can be found in those stories that the writers may not have had in mind; an approach Tolkien called "applicability."

 

[HiddenDjinn]

At least once a week, I see the rant, "Religion is the cause of all violence and evil". Let's examine this for a moment, with the major causes of death in the 20th Century, CE:
The Great World War--an inevitable result of European concept of mutual alliances and balance of power, sparked by an assassination. I don't truly see how religion played a part there, but the total number of people killed during WW1 (including civilians) is 16.5 million. (Source: WikiAnswers - How many people died in World War 1 )

The October Revolution(Ok, I know, it actually happened in November everywhere outside of Russia)--5-10 million Russians killed in the name of 'Enlightened Socialism'(if you call this religious, I'll call you an idiot to your face) (Source: WikiAnswers - How many Russians died during the Russian Revolution )

World War II--Sprung as an inevitable political action due to Germany's treatment at conclusion of WWI, and killed more than 70 million. (Source: World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Communist Revolution in China--30 million (Source: The worst genocides of the 20th Century)

UN action in Korea--2.8 million (Source: WikiAnswers - How many people died in the Korean War)

Khmer Rouge--another attempt on the communist ship, 1.5 million Cambodians, 1/5 of the population, gone. (Source: Khmer Rouge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

Everybody's favorite...Vietnam--About 5.4 million, and this was just between the US and North Vietnam. This neither counts British Empire nor French involvement. (Source: Google Answers: How many people died in the Vietnam War?)

Islamic Revolution in Iran--Estimates are in the thousands, but no one knows.

Communist Rule of USSR--Over 62 million, not counting war casualties (Source: Socialism WORKS! for Soviet Russia... or does it? )

etc, etc.

If you want to talk about a particularly violent group, I'd say it's the authoritarian-style ATHEIST Communists you need to whine about.

 

[InfinityUnlocked]

Many, many good points... I should have phrased this thread, stop the spread of hate & intolerance... ban "intolerant" religions. I don't care if my neighbor is catholic, jewish, protestant or an atheist... as long as he or she is tolerant of those around him or her. Ultimately that is what I see as "the root of the evil so to speak"... intolerance whether bred from anger, hate or fear (obviously all connected) causes problems.

I opted out of the traditional view (as given to me by my then current circumstances) of religion when I couldn't understand why a God could simultaneously create and then eternally destroy ANY living creature. After all, who knows "you" better? Your creator. More than you could ever possibly know about yourself... and I'm supposed to believe that a God that lovingly created me would be okay with sending me or anyone to a hell? I know the whole debate over what hell was supposed to represent. The problem though is it's still being taught as a REAL place to punish and torture people for all eternity... this is intolerance at it's highest. After all, how can God say to "love and forgive your enemy" and turn around and send you or your enemy to hell? It's not only intolerant but also one of those, "do as I say, not as I do". Come on... we all know better... that would make God out to be quite a hypocrite... very, very doubtful. But if he is, we're all screwed... except the chosen... the "elect"... which if that's the case, what's the point in creating the other X Billion people from the beginning to now if only a pinch of us are going to get a chance to further spiritually after this round here on earth?

I wish the people spewing this fear crap would stop and think about what they're saying... maybe they would realize, like myself that thinking this way comes from fear, not love... not love ... not love.

All in all, here we have an infinity of things we don't understand, yet each "thing" works in a way that defies the most prudent or scientific... surely if God was the "author" of the bible, he wouldn't have done such great works and then flubbed it all up by writing a book that could be used to mislead so many people and create so much infighting. Looks like it was simply man-made, not God-made or inspired. Then again, who can say with 100% certainty either way. My money is on the God that lives within all and around everything, yet for whatever reason remains a mystery so much that no explanation could ever begin to describe this "beyond-words" Creator.

Last year the news interviewed a guy who's daughter was in a car that was involved in an accident killing the other three passengers (the girls school friends) when asked why he thought his daughter survived when the others did not... he responded by saying, "God obviously has plans for my daughter"... imagine the taste in the mouth of the parents of the other three girls that didn't make it. Maybe the guy just wasn't thinking and it fell out of his mouth... perhaps but the idea got in his head somehow... Gee... wonder how?

I would LOVE to see the study that states the smarter a person is the more likely they are to be religious. If that's true we should be surrounded by Einsteins and other geniuses. That would be great... if it were only true. Sorry but no study has ever concluded that religiousness is a sign of intelligence. lmao

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Only with the most fundamental and literalist interpretation.

Which is the only one that matters as the founders were well aware. Somewhere in Paul's writings is a remark to the effect that if Christ is not risen our faith is in vain.

If you take out either the eternal reward or the eternal punishment the mythology becomes just another ethical system. And then no matter how laudatory it may be it holds no exalted place. Nor do its followers.

You are arguing for what my dear departed pastor would describe as a watered down toothless Christ who has no more reason to command our faith than Buddha or any other heathen prophet.

 

[Smoke]

I'm not exactly a Christian in the strict sense of the term, but I can give you my own answer: It isn't. Then again, Jesus specifically told his followers to put away their swords when the Romans came for him. It was only with the rise of Constantine that his message was perverted in the name of war. What you're looking at is Constantinism, not Christianity.

I'm really tired of people blaming Constantine for all the problems with Christianity. It's unfair to blame Constantine for the way Christians behaved after their religion became legal, and it's certainly unfair to blame him for the way they behave now. Evangelicals, for example have jettisoned practically everything about historic Christianity. Their religion is for all practical purposes an entirely different religion from Constantine's. Same with Roman Catholicism -- and the majority of Christians in the world are Roman Catholics. Constantine is an easy scapegoat, but when it comes right down to it, nobody is responsible for the way Christians behave but Christians themselves.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"If you want to talk about a particularly violent group, I'd say it's the authoritarian-style ATHEIST Communists you need to whine about."

Except of course those commies never killed ANYBODY just because they believed in a god.

But religious folk; they have ONLY a religious excuse.

And need no other.

 

[Smoke]

I am not a constantinian Christian.

Exactly. And yet your church is, when it comes to gay people, one of the most vicious and hateful churches on earth. That ain't Constantine's fault.

 

[Smoke]

However, there are those who for whatever reason find the idea of a deity or deities to be both comforting and inspiring. This seems inherent in human society, and I doubt that it will disappear anytime soon. Therefore, I would think that it would be more productive to encourage positive expressions of religious sentiment than it would be to rail against religion as a whole.

So do I. All religions are not created equal.

 

[Rakhel]

"If you want to talk about a particularly violent group, I'd say it's the authoritarian-style ATHEIST Communists you need to whine about."

Except of course those commies never killed ANYBODY just because they believed in a god.

But religious folk; they have ONLY a religious excuse.

And need no other.

You are missing the point.

 

[DallasApple]

"If you want to talk about a particularly violent group, I'd say it's the authoritarian-style ATHEIST Communists you need to whine about."

Except of course those commies never killed ANYBODY just because they believed in a god.

But religious folk; they have ONLY a religious excuse.

And need no other.

But they are killers and they wold find ANOTHER excuse if it werent their religion.

If your wrong your wrong it doesnt matter what excuse you use to justify your self.

And Im not that "smart" but I bet my bottom $ if there werent an "ancient" religion which people used to justify hate and criminal activity and murder ..humans would create a modern one.

Love

Dallas

 

[HiddenDjinn]

"If you want to talk about a particularly violent group, I'd say it's the authoritarian-style ATHEIST Communists you need to whine about."

Except of course those commies never killed ANYBODY just because they believed in a god.

Ok, so you say that not only did the Stalinist pogroms never happen, but that Tibet was never invaded and that Khmer Rouge didn't go after Buddhists solely because of their religion? Oh, and, a related note, the Authoritarian Nazi regime didn't round up Gypsies, Catholics, along with Jews? Please tell me that your religious fervor against what you call religion hasn't blinded you so...

I agree with the wife, you're missing the point, but I'll add that your reality check is about to bounce if you don't make a deposit real quick.