Religion: *#@$&~^!!!!

[Breathe]

I like where this is going.

OP, first, welcome aboard.
Second of all: study some religions.

Hell is a concept in very few religions. In effect, you see the idea of [an eternal] Hell in Islam and Christianity and one, possibly two, denominations of Hinduism. It is also a shrinking concept in the West, thankfully.

You direct your post to "any theist religion", yet you ignore Sikhism and the Bahá'í Faith nor do you probably hold any idea what they believe otherwise you would not have made such a crass theological generalisation.

You mention Christianity being an "enemy to gays", forgetting there are gay churches out there.

Try looking beyond Christianity and Islam before you start throwing such views around. Also while you are there, try looking beyond say, fundamentalist Christian groups. Visit a liberal church. Hell, visit an Episcopalian church even.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I like where this is going.

OP, first, welcome aboard.
Second of all: study some religions.

Hell is a concept in very few religions. In effect, you see the idea of [an eternal] Hell in Islam and Christianity and one, possibly two, denominations of Hinduism. It is also a shrinking concept in the West, thankfully.

You direct your post to "any theist religion", yet you ignore Sikhism and the Bahá'í Faith nor do you probably hold any idea what they believe otherwise you would not have made such a crass theological generalisation.

You mention Christianity being an "enemy to gays", forgetting there are gay churches out there.

Try looking beyond Christianity and Islam before you start throwing such views around. Also while you are there, try looking beyond say, fundamentalist Christian groups. Visit a liberal church. Hell, visit an Episcopalian church even.

:yes:

 

[Tathagata]

Besides, I only know of two religions that claim absolute truth: mainstream Christianity and Islam.

Buddhism also claims absolute truth.

The Buddha: "Preach it, make it known, establish it, open it, minutely explain it, and make it clear-until they, when others start vain doctrines, shall be able to vanquish and refute them, and so to spread the wonderworking truth abroad. I shall not die until the pure religion of truth shall have become successful, prosperous, widespread, and popular in all its full extent-until, in a word, it shall have been well proclaimed among men!" [Mahaparinibbana Sutta]



.

 

[Yerda]

[It should be noted that I only refer to Christianity in this post because I am most familiar with it. However. this post was directed toward any thiest religion]

So, if we run through the post and replace every usage of the term Christian, and replace it with 'any theist religion' we'll find it to be accurate?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Christians teach their tiny children, at the same time they teach them the horrible force of hell, that every baby is born in sin. This sin is Adam's sin, who they now admit never existed. We have generations of children being told their sins will result in eternity in hell, ...

Gross generalization is a poor way to introduce yourself, but....

Welcome to RF.

 

[Witch9]

:troll:

 

[tumbleweed41]

First of all I said theist, meaning a personal god that intervenes in a governing way on earth. I never said any individual was vile, depraved, and inhumane.

Actually, a theist is an individual, specifically one that believes in a personal god that created and rules the world.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Atheism is a belief just like any other.

:sarcastic
Atheism is a lack of belief in any supernatural deity.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You wouldn't get upset if i called the music you listened to vile, or the food you ate vile would you?

Probably not, but I would dismiss your opinion if your reasoning was flawed.

 

[Riverwolf]

The moment you as a human begin to die is the moment when you stop speaking about things that matter. I don't take prejudice very lightly.

Don't forget that prejudice against religions and religious people can exist, too.

Before you speak about things that matter, you have to LEARN about them. Prejudice is an important subject, and the fact that many religious groups still hold on to harmful traditions is a real issue. But to use those particular groups as microcosms for religion as a whole is, in fact, logically fallacious.

How about the God that promised to reward the 19 men that flew plains into the twin towers in the name of Allah.

Actually, according to the Qur'an, those men will burn in hell because killing non-combatants is forbidden.

 

[Riverwolf]

Buddhism also claims absolute truth.

The Buddha: "Preach it, make it known, establish it, open it, minutely explain it, and make it clear-until they, when others start vain doctrines, shall be able to vanquish and refute them, and so to spread the wonderworking truth abroad. I shall not die until the pure religion of truth shall have become successful, prosperous, widespread, and popular in all its full extent-until, in a word, it shall have been well proclaimed among men!" [Mahaparinibbana Sutta]



.

That text does, anyway. ^_^

How many denominations of Buddhism follow that text?

 

[Riverwolf]

You wouldn't get upset if i called the music you listened to vile, or the food you ate vile would you?

I can think of many people who would get upset if you did, actually. :yes:

 

[Watchmen]

Christians teach their tiny children, at the same time they teach them the horrible force of hell, that every baby is born in sin. This sin is Adam's sin, who they now admit never existed. We have generations of children being told their sins will result in eternity in hell, and their good deeds will land them a spot up in heaven. Morality should be based not on punishment or reward after death, but rather effectually based on sympathy, mutual understanding, and education. It's about time humanity wake up and adopt a morality that is thought-out, reasoned, argued and discussed. It sickens me that most people accept an absolute morality written in a book a little less than 2,000 years ago. We are poisoning our children. Christianity is an enemy of gay's, bestowing on them the type of bigotry it reserved for Jews before 1962. Christianity is an enemy of woman, keeping them from priesthood. An enemy of truth, denouncing condoms as infective. An enemy of science and well being, keeping advancements in genetics from saving lives. Most of all, Christianity is an enemy of education, corrupting children's minds by feeding them lies and subjecting them to guilt.


[It should be noted that I only refer to Christianity in this post because I am most familiar with it. However. this post was directed toward any thiest religion]

You blanket Christians with the same broad strokes you criticize them of painting gays and women with.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Then your view is extremely defective because not all religions can legitimately be described as "vile, depraved, and inhuman!"

I therefore suggest you need considerably more study about religions before you rush to issue such statements!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Wakeup]

Woah, let's back this up a little. You're drawing conclusions and betraying reason.

Who ever said Adam never existed? You can take it literally or metaphorically, and it still fits the bill on what is trying to be explained. In the beginning, there was an act of sin. Thus, good and evil became realized.
It's a simple concept of a domino effect. One is pure, one becomes tempted, one sins. They feel ashamed, realize they are naked, hide in fear, etc., Good and evil are realized, and therefore become reality. Adam cursed man forever.
Or better yet, the Adversary did. Vanity is a key term here- it was the original sin before mankind.

See, this is the essence of the OT. God imposed harsh laws, as exaction and balance were needed for sin. Mind you, sin is not an act of evil, but rather it likely ends up resulting in evil acts. This is why God demanded balance and exaction.

Homosexuality- became a sin because God wanted man to grow. The population then was very low, and were very barbaric times in general. If everyone was gay, how does a nation grow? Such was His command to the Levites.
The NT does not speak on homosexuality practically at all, and since it essentially replaced the book of Leviticus in law, I see no reason why it should still be an issue.

As far as what you're saying with 'poisoning children's minds- Most Christians and Christian families I know are very happy and content people. You speak as if it is some kind of disease.
Science has yet to become some magic wand that denounces all of religion. You will be surprised by it's limits.

Just because Christians do not contribute to the efforts of science means very little. Do they have some sort of obligation to do so? Since when did this world become so subjective that everyone must mind each others business?
Let's not forget some of the damage that science has done- vaccines, anti-bacterial soap, disinfectant, etc.- this is why viruses and whatnot get deadlier.
Aesthetics- instead of helping the poor, people are getting boob jobs.
I could go on with a trillion other things in that respect, but the point I'm making is that the world is both too smart for it's own good and too bad for it's own independence all at the same time. A God is simply necessary.

You're idea of the world coming together and adopting universal morals- it'll never happen. Just take a look at history and the world today.
You want to know one theory on why aliens may have not visited Earth? Because they destroyed themselves before they got to that stage of advancement.
Something to marinate on.

Absolutely false. Adam did not exist, and you cannot take that literally. God said he was created, along with eve, within the 6 days it took him to create the universe. We know very well that man didn't exist 4.5 billion years ago, as the oldest fossils of ancestors we can remotely see man had evolved from are only about 4 million years old. The earth was in fact a enormous ball of fire and gas 4.5 billion years ago. If i took it metaphorically how then does it fit the bill? Should we take other myths that are just ask crazy metaphorically too? Also, if you look at the events of the bible metaphorically, you would have to perceive the superstition the same way too. Jesus turning water into wine, being born from a virgin, communion turning to the flesh of christ.

It is still a problem because the christian god literally condemns homosexuals to death for acting on their conditions. I understand the New testament is much different, however, the inspired word of god litteraly said, "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them"


[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Science does in fact denounce all religions. For example[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica], [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]I'm a determinist, as is Stephen Hawkins and Albert Einstein, and latest neuroscience study's can predict with 100% accuracy a decision a person makes 10 seconds before his mind becomes conscience of it. It only follows that God punishing or rewarding a human after death is no different than God punishing an inanimate object simply for being an inanimate object.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]


I can't continue to critique this post, everything is wrong.
[/FONT]

 

[Wakeup]

Then your view is extremely defective because not all religions can legitimately be described as "vile, depraved, and inhuman!"

I therefore suggest you need considerably more study about religions before you rush to issue such statements!

Peace,

Bruce

I never said all religions.

 

[Wakeup]

You blanket Christians with the same broad strokes you criticize them of painting gays and women with.

How can you not criticize a God that at one point in history, literally justified death as punishment for homosexual acts? How can you not criticize a church that takes the word "disordered," used in a negative context, and applys it to a minority of people.That is prejudice sir, and I cannot percieve it any other way.

 

[xkatz]

christians teach their tiny children, at the same time they teach them the horrible force of hell, that every baby is born in sin. This sin is adam's sin, who they now admit never existed. We have generations of children being told their sins will result in eternity in hell, and their good deeds will land them a spot up in heaven. Morality should be based not on punishment or reward after death, but rather effectually based on sympathy, mutual understanding, and education. It's about time humanity wake up and adopt a morality that is thought-out, reasoned, argued and discussed. It sickens me that most people accept an absolute morality written in a book a little less than 2,000 years ago. We are poisoning our children. Christianity is an enemy of gay's, bestowing on them the type of bigotry it reserved for jews before 1962. Christianity is an enemy of woman, keeping them from priesthood. An enemy of truth, denouncing condoms as infective. An enemy of science and well being, keeping advancements in genetics from saving lives. Most of all, christianity is an enemy of education, corrupting children's minds by feeding them lies and subjecting them to guilt.


[it should be noted that i only refer to christianity in this post because i am most familiar with it. However. This post was directed toward any thiest religion]

tl;dr

BTW, welcome to RF

 

[Riverwolf]

How can you not criticize a God that at one point in history, literally justified death as punishment for homosexual acts? How can you not criticize a church that takes the word "disordered," used in a negative context, and applys it to a minority of people.That is prejudice sir, and I cannot percieve it any other way.

Repetition of the point without actually providing a counter.

Not all Christians accept the Tanakh, many believe it doesn't apply anymore.

You say "a" church, as if Christianity were just one entity, when it's not. I've been to a church where a woman was a priest.

 

[Breathe]

"theist religions."

Theism = Belief that God exists.

A more narrow interpretation of theism = God exists and is personal.

If we use the first definition...

Polytheism is still theism.
Monotheism is still theism.
Panentheism is still theism, even.

Even if we use the second definition, not all religions fit your bill.

Sikhism is a theistic religion, but it does not damn people to Hell for being homosexual, and is silent on homosexuality as a topic. There is no idea of eternal Hell in Sikhism.

The Bahá'í Faith is a theistic religion. It's not exactly the most supportive of homosexuality, but it does not damn people to Hell. There is no idea of eternal Hell in the Bahá'í Faith.

Mormonism is a theistic religion. It has been quite strongly opposed to homosexuality in a lot of circles, but it does not damn people to Hell for homosexuality. There is no idea of eternal Hell in Mormonism.

Hinduism can be a theistic religion. Its views of homosexuality can vary from full support to extremely opposed. There is no idea of eternal Hell in most forms of Hinduism, and Hell is not a place where you go for being gay, at least to my knowledge of how they interpret it.


So... nah, man. You're failing here. You're moving the goalposts a bit.