Religions answers to the suffering of innocents

[Lisa Sims]

I do not believe in reincarnation. I do believe God created souls in his own image (as God is the Great Soul and does not have a material body.) Each soul chooses their own Earth parents and the type of life they need to fulfill their own destiny.

The Earth incarnation is a very tiny portion of Life, and it's only purpose is the individualization of the soul in a spirit body. The Spirit World is the more significant part of life and any needed growth, development, education and ministry can happen there...no need to go backwards for another carnal life.

The suffering on Earth is because the first parents refused to seek One-ness with God and wanted to live independently (much like people today?) This was the cause of all the sickness and suffering on Earth. It will soon be rectified by God's continuing to pour out His Spirit on the Earth for the healing of the planet and the redemption of mankind.

The first parents of other planets made the other choice and had a history much different than ours.

 

[dybmh]

I do believe God created souls in his own image

The creation of souls in the image requires a departure from one-ness?

The suffering on Earth is because the first parents refused to seek One-ness

If the soul is created as a departure from one-ness why would they seek it? What would prompt the desire for reunion?

 

[metis]

Ok


If Spinoza describes Nature, but is unwilling to describe God, then Spinoza cannot be referring to God when Spinoza is describing Nature. Agreed?

Even though he couldn't prove it, he was very much a theist who simply leaned in the direction of what I previously stated. Matter of fact, he felt that love and respect is where we should be coming from.

Again, we're dealing with beliefs, and the one thing I can categorically state is that he had very had an open mind, which obviously was disdained by many in his synagogue, whereas he was basically declared persona non-grata.

So, the point I can and do ask myself is "What do I believe and why do I believe as such?". Wanna give it a go?

 

[metis]

Oh no!

Why?

He was VERY far from being orthodox and became an embarrassment to the Portugues Jewish community. Even though the Dutch community were proud of the fact they were liberally minded, nevertheless the Jewish community didn't want anyone to rock the boat and Spinoza very much did.

 

[Eddi]

He was VERY far from being orthodox and became an embarrassment to the Portugues Jewish community. Even though the Dutch community were proud of the fact they were liberally minded, nevertheless the Jewish community didn't want anyone to rock the boat and Spinoza very much did.

I misread your post as saying that you and your wife got kicked out of that synagogue!

 

[metis]

I misread your post as saying that you and your wife got kicked out of that synagogue!

LOL!

BTW, if you ever get a chance, Amsterdam is a GREAT city to spend some time in. And you can sip the Heineken which is 12% alcohol. The museums are fantastic! And one should go to the Anne Frank house.

I'd love to go back, but at 79 years of "maturity", ...

 

[Eddi]

LOL!

BTW, if you ever get a chance, Amsterdam is a GREAT city to spend some time in. And you can sip the Heineken which is 12% alcohol. The museums are fantastic! And one should go to the Anne Frank house.

I'd love to go back, but at 79 years of "maturity", ...

I've always wanted to go there

Even more so now that I know they have 12% Heineken!

 

[Lisa Sims]

The creation of souls in the image requires a departure from one-ness?



If the soul is created as a departure from one-ness why would they seek it? What would prompt the desire for reunion?

God created souls in His own image. He endowed them with natural love and other attributes that are similar to some of His attributes. There is no spark of divinity in us. However, our souls were designed to be receptacles for God's Love if and when we decide to ask for it. It is like a new and improved operating system that enters drop by drop as we pray for it and opens up all the gifts that we each have dormant in our souls. The outpouring of God's Love came in abundance to the apostles at Pentecost after they had prayed earnestly for it for 10 days (they already had some of it from praying with Jesus.)

Our souls remember the Father and long to be one with Him. Our material minds and inherited sinful nature get in the way of a transformation that would make us of the substance of God and lead us to Divinity and Immortality.

God's offer of His Divine Love (Divine Nature, Living Water) was withdrawn after the refusal of the first parents and re-bestowed when Jesus brought the good news of its availability to all people and showed the results of it in his own person.

He was born without sin to put him on par with the first parents, and his own soul longings from birth as well as his studies of the Hebrew prophecies on the New Heart, etc., convinced him that this Love was available to man. As he prayed and received more and more of it, he began to have soul communication with God and realization of his own mission.

 

[ajay0]

There is no spark of divinity in us.

This would be incorrect as per eastern religious philosophy which states that the Self or Buddha nature is there within all sentient beings. Sufism also states that God or divinity is within all beings.

Jesus in the Bible also states that the kingdom of God or heaven is within us.

If there is no spark of divinity within us, it would be impossible to recognize divinity in God or enlightened sages like Christ or Rumi or Buddha.

 

[Absolutely Frank]

This would be incorrect as per eastern religious philosophy which states that the Self or Buddha nature is there within all sentient beings. Sufism also states that God or divinity is within all beings.

Jesus in the Bible also states that the kingdom of God or heaven is within us.

If there is no spark of divinity within us, it would be impossible to recognize divinity in God or enlightened sages like Christ or Rumi or Buddha.

I wouldn't exactly call it a spark since God is immanent within the entirety of creation. The whole thing is non-dualistic and divine. That's not a spark but a complete conflagration

 

[Lisa Sims]

This would be incorrect as per eastern religious philosophy which states that the Self or Buddha nature is there within all sentient beings. Sufism also states that God or divinity is within all beings.

Jesus in the Bible also states that the kingdom of God or heaven is within us.

If there is no spark of divinity within us, it would be impossible to recognize divinity in God or enlightened sages like Christ or Rumi or Buddha.

Jesus in his Second Coming Message Series (1914-present) says that there is no spark of divinity in us until we pray and receive the inflow of Divine Love:

“...It is the Divine Love that contains in itself the divine, which the natural love does not. Many, I know, write and believe that all men, irrespective of the kind of love they have in their souls, possess what they call ‘the divine spark,’ which needs only the proper development to make all men divine. But this conception of the state of man in his natural condition is all wrong, for man has not in him any part of the divine, and never can have, unless he receives and has developed in him, this Divine Love…” Jesus, 5/15/17

Regarding Luke 17:21, Only the King James and New King James versions have, "The Kingdom of God is within you." The other versions have, "The Kingdom of God is in your midst."

"I am here, Jesus.

I wish to write you about the phrase, “The Kingdom of God is within you,” as it appears in Luke, chapter 17, verses 20-21, and which has lead to an entirely false understanding of what I meant to convey. The fact is that certain spokesmen for the Pharisees asked me when the Kingdom of God would come, and my answer was that in my person it had already come, for wherever I went I brought with me the Kingdom. That is the meaning of the verses, “And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the Kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, the Kingdom of God cometh not with observation - meaning as a visible manifestation for beholding the kingdom come through the eyes of mortal man - for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” The Greek word “entos” (entov), however, does not mean “within you,” but “in the midst of.”1 The incorrect translation arose from the fact that the translator sought to write not what the Greek word actually meant, but what seemed to make sense to him in the light of his own imperfect understanding of what those verses meant to him, for he thought that mere faith in Jesus and fidelity to the rite of communion made Jesus - and therefore God - one with him.

There are, in fact, some cults today which have mistakenly understood the translator’s words to indicate that the Kingdom of God is that part of man - the soul - which comes most directly from Him. And that in developing and perfecting the attributes of the soul, man develops the kingdom of God within himself. In truth, development of the faculties of the soul will help man to purify his soul and enable him to reach towards the Paradise of the first parents before their fall from grace. This, however, is not the state of the soul achieved through transformation which takes place only through the efficacy of the Divine Love, which enters the prayerful soul through the workings of the Holy Spirit. Paradise, or purification of the soul, is the state of the perfect natural man, but has nothing of the Divine Angel nor At-onement with the Father." Jesus, 11/7/1955

 

[Maninthemiddle]

From my perspective, I wish that more people spent less time talking about why God allows bad things to happen to innocent people and more time dealing with why we allow so many bad things to happen to innocent people.

Before speculating about karma, lets focus on indifference.

Did I not make it clear I was talking about Children being born with disabilities, I can speculate about karma, are you so arrogant you will tell me what to focus on.
I can speculate on something without being indifferent about other things.
I never claimed this takes up every waking moment of my thoughts, how about we just close all threads and focus on indifference.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Are you putting words into my mouth? Please quote where I said or even implied that.

Below you wrote it, the fruit of the parents actions, that's exactly what you wrote.

That said, "things" that happen to innocent children, while possibly impacted by karmic action, are more commonly the fruits of the parents' actions.

 

[wellwisher]

No matter what your faith may be, inevitably the question will arise from others: Why does God allow bad things to happen to innocent children? From the perspective of your religion, how do you answer this? In my opinion, Buddhism's concept of karma provides a meaningful response. However, I am open to hearing about the explanations offered by other religions. I do not claim that Buddhism has all the answers, which is why I am interested in exploring this question further.

In Christianity Jesus said:

“Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

If you believe in the afterlife, the suffering of innocence is made up by then having a better after life. It is sort of a variation of Karma, but less due to your choices in life, and more about being a victim of bad circumstances, that you did not create.

 

[Spice]

I see God's creation as perfect, however, when it is broken down and separated in parts, imperfections can become visible. The actions of creation are dependent upon interactions of the various parts. That includes the interactions of humans with each other and other parts of the whole.

As the mother of a child born with multiple defects, I don't see it as a result of God except in that He created the components. I don't see it as the fault of the parents, other than the parents chose the time the components came together. But then, any other time would have resulted in a different child, a different experience, and a different opportunity for love.
Que sera, sera.

 

[ChieftheCef]

There is no evidence or possibility of existence of any God or Goddess.

Wouldn't I like to prove you wrong. Haven't the time.

Evil happens due to limitations of the Void, Relatively little bad happens in the Void, and that which does dulls itself over time (like bloody wars into bullet wars), fertilizes goodness (death makes room for new life), and is necessary for life.

The root of all evil is mal (malformed something, whether it be genes, situations, etc) and if you want to stop evil you must be patient, like thousands to 10s of thousands of years patient, and simply not be universally bad, bad universal to all cultures, and instead you must be universally good. Evil is not totally bad or even unnecessary or something to not have. You need it to survive. And it's all cocreative, it all helps in some way and is necessary. That's why god and goddess, the great duality of space-time and energy/matter are discordantly harmonic with each other, they compliment each other not attack one another. It is a careful dance done by the great monality, the great oneness.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Below you wrote it, the fruit of the parents actions, that's exactly what you wrote.

That said, "things" that happen to innocent children, while possibly impacted by karmic action, are more commonly the fruits of the parents' actions.

Mhm. How is that the same as...

So if a child is born blind or worse you think it’s the parents fault.

...?

Do you understand the difference between 'commonly' and 'always?'

 

[Kathryn]

I have had a lot of random, bad stuff happen to me, some of which happened to me as a child. Here's what I find brings me comfort:

Humans are finite. We are not eternal and don't see everything. We live in a world that contains scary things like death and disease. We cannot understand the mind of God. But God has a plan and it WILL be accomplished. And God is good. God is love.

Also, this world is not the end to me.

And finally, I believe God is like a refining fire, and that I am a better person than I used to be, mostly through suffering.

“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight” (Proverbs 3:5-6)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Did I not make it clear I was talking about Children being born with disabilities, I can speculate about karma, are you so arrogant you will tell me what to focus on.

1. I had a daughter who struggled all her life with severe disabilities and died in her mid-30s.
2. I didn't tell you to do anything. I suggested a focus which, FWIW, was exemplified by my daughter's attitude.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Wouldn't I like to prove you wrong. Haven't the time.

Evil happens due to limitations of the Void, Relatively little bad happens in the Void, and that which does dulls itself over time (like bloody wars into bullet wars), fertilizes goodness (death makes room for new life), and is necessary for life.

The root of all evil is mal (malformed something, whether it be genes, situations, etc) and if you want to stop evil you must be patient, like thousands to 10s of thousands of years patient, and simply not be universally bad, bad universal to all cultures, and instead you must be universally good. Evil is not totally bad or even unnecessary or something to not have. You need it to survive. And it's all cocreative, it all helps in some way and is necessary. That's why god and goddess, the great duality of space-time and energy/matter are discordantly harmonic with each other, they compliment each other not attack one another. It is a careful dance done by the great monality, the great oneness.

I term it as apologistics, word maze (word salad, Shabda Jaala), superstition. Explain it anyway you want. The world, universe, does not care about good or bad or humans. 'Is necessary' or it happens naturally depending upon the conditions. Animals, humans are inherently selfish. It is a biological phenomenon, whether for food or sex or to do less work at the expense of others. Society needs peace and creates the rules. No God involved there.