Religions answers to the suffering of innocents

[Aupmanyav]

I have edited my last post in the topic. You are welcome to have a look.

Religions answers to the suffering of innocents

I had a daughter who struggled all her life with severe disabilities and died in her mid-30s. I didn't tell you to do anything. I suggested a focus which, FWIW, was exemplified by my daughter's attitude. It certainly did not sound like a suggestion

www.religiousforums.com

 

[ChieftheCef]

Yeah, somewhat like Kapila of Samkhya and Kanada of Vaisheshika. I follow Sankara and Buddha.
Edit:
Sankara said, 'Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya, jeevo brahmaiva na parah'
(Brahman (alone) is the truth, the perceived is an illusion, a living being is no different than Brahman)
I have extended it to non-living as well. After all, they too are constituted by what constitutes us (atom and molecules)

Tis! Non living is suspiciously like life! Let me get to my laptop to explain.

 

[Revoltingest]

One French Christian's idea spread like wildfire....

Arnaud Amalric - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ChieftheCef]

Yeah, somewhat like Kapila of Samkhya and Kanada of Vaisheshika. I follow Sankara and Buddha.
Edit:
Sankara said, 'Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya, jeevo brahmaiva na parah'
(Brahman (alone) is the truth, the perceived is an illusion, a living being is no different than Brahman)
I have extended it to non-living as well. After all, they too are constituted by what constitutes us (atom and molecules)

Nature is Alive

Everything maintains it’s preferential states Planetoids, Nebulae, Galaxies, Super Clusters etc But also down to the very bottom of things Subatomic Phenomena, Atoms, Molecules, Compounds And in between Galaxy, Nebula, Solar System Grass, Trees and Stone These preferential states...

www.religiousforums.com

Read this poem I wrote. I think you would appreciate it.

 

[ChieftheCef]

One Christian's idea spread like wildfire....

Arnaud Amalric - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wow, that's no joke, so inline with the founder.

 

[ChieftheCef]

^ some Jews might view that lanoisuled.

You yourself a the same, demonstrably

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You yourself a the same, demonstrably

Assuming that I've properly interpreted your response, let me simply suggest that you ponder the difference between characterizing a person and characterizing a claim.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Read this poem I wrote. I think you would appreciate it.

Yeah, I like it, my views align with it. But it does not seem to be much poetic, free-form poetry.

 

[ChieftheCef]

Yeah, I like it, my views align with it. But it does not seem to be much poetic, free form poetry.

One of my firsts. I decided when I learn the thesaurus more I'll rewrite it.

 

[ChieftheCef]

You have given no evidence that you know the cosmic scheme. Or what that is? And if you knew that, how that would make you enlightened?

Absence was for a sheer moment and it analyzed itself and thus everything had to be. It rebounded. Everything, including nothing and you, is one big only monality; ever bettering itself, ever recycling and diversifying by somehow adding to the whole. See animals and plants all exchange nutrients by every orifice of either flora or fauna or microflora or microfauna. So does the nonlife. Everything is maintaining its own preferential states, including mountains, trees, and everything else. The body and the reality, both part of the nothingness-somethingness spectrum, are really one singular thing, gradually evolving niches for itself that compose a greater whole. It is alive. See this free form poem

Nature is Alive

That includes absence, the creator, maintainer and destroyer.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Absence was for a sheer moment and it analyzed itself and thus everything had to be. It rebounded. Everything, including nothing and you, is one big only monality; ever bettering itself, ever recycling and diversifying by somehow adding to the whole. See animals and plants all exchange nutrients by every orifice of either flora or fauna or microflora or microfauna. So does the nonlife. Everything is maintaining its own preferential states, including mountains, trees, and everything else. The body and the reality, both part of the nothingness-somethingness spectrum, are really one singular thing, gradually evolving niches for itself that compose a greater whole. It is alive. See this free form poem

Nature is Alive

That includes absence, the creator, maintainer and destroyer.

Yeah, unless you give evidence for that, those words refer back to how you think.

Now I have faith and a belief in what objective reality is, but I don't clare that a fact.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Do you make it a habit of misrepresenting what others say to advance your agenda?

I never said anything about blame. You are, again, putting words in my mouth.

Again, my statement:

You have ignored the 'more' before 'commonly.' Do you understand the difference between 'more' and "most?"

Misrepresent me again and we will be done here. I have a very low tolerance for deceit.

You threaten to end the conversation like anyone would care.
I never put words in you mouth, I simply pointed out what you wrote.

 

[Maninthemiddle]

Do you make it a habit of misrepresenting what others say to advance your agenda?

I never said anything about blame. You are, again, putting words in my mouth.

Again, my statement:

You have ignored the 'more' before 'commonly.' Do you understand the difference between 'more' and "most?"

Misrepresent me again and we will be done here. I have a very low tolerance for deceit.

The fruits of the parents actions, that is blaming the parents for their actions, I am not putting words in your mouth by saying you blame the parents.
The fruits of the parents actions is what you wrote.

 

[Lisa Sims]

I wouldn't exactly call it a spark since God is immanent within the entirety of creation. The whole thing is non-dualistic and divine. That's not a spark but a complete conflagration

God the Great Soul has a habitation in a discreet location in the heavens and is not "all in all" as some say. The Emanations of God's Attributes do flow out to all the universes.

He does not however, though he created us to receive it and desires for us to have it, put any of His Own Divine Essence (Divine Love) inside of us unless we ask for it in earnest and frequent longings and meditation, as he honors the free-will that he endowed us with. But he wants us to be completely transformed by partaking of his Divine Essence/Love/Nature (the Living Waters of which Jesus spoke) and to become His True Children who have true assurance of immortality separate from himself, but who are also One with Him.

The difference is between a being whose soul was created in the "image" of God, and a fully transformed Child of God possessed of the "substance" of God and fit to enter the Kingdom of God where only divinity can enter in.

Jesus showed us for the first time what a being fully transformed in the Love of God looks like and acts like, and today there are millions like him in the Kingdom of God, but he is still their beloved Master and the most possessed of God's Love (our souls expand) and the most humble "Divine Angel" of all and lives nearest the fountainhead of God's Emanations.

Following are excerpts from Jesus' Second Coming Message Series, 1914 to present. References are to the four volume book set True Gospel Revealed Anew By Jesus, page numbers are from 1st and 2nd printings respectively:

Who and What is God?
“…God is of form such as to give Him an entity and Substance and seat of habitation, in contra-distinction to that God which…is said to be everywhere…in the trees and rocks, and thunder and lightning, and in men and beasts…and in whom men are said to live and move and have their being. No, this concept of God is not in accord with the truth, and it is vital to the knowledge and salvation of men that such conception of God be not entertained or believed in… although it may be surprising and startling to mortals to hear, God has His habitation, and God the Substance, the Self-existing and Soul form, has His locality, and men do not live and move and have their existence in God; but in His emanations and expressions and spirit they do.”
Jesus, Vol. 1, p 61/69, 5/25/1917

Who and What is God? - continued
“God is in His Heavens, and those heavens have a locality, just as the different spheres of the spirit world, in which spirits have their homes…His locality is way beyond the highest Celestial Spheres…and as (spirits) progress, the…closer they come in contact with these attributes of God, which are constantly flowing from Him…”
Anne Rollins, grandmother to James Padgett, Vol. 1, p 67/76, 2/25/1916

Ann Rollins: Forgiveness
“…The Divine Love of the Father… is free and waiting to be bestowed upon all men… God will not, cannot, bestow this Love unless man seeks for it in earnestness and faith…”
Ann Rollins, Vol 1, p 128/144, 3/31/1915

Romans 5:5 "...and hope does not disappoint us because God has poured out His Love into our souls by the Holy Spirit which He has given to us.

1 John 3:9 "Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God."

 

[Maninthemiddle]

God the Great Soul has a habitation in a discreet location in the heavens and is not "all in all" as some say. The Emanations of God's Attributes do flow out to all the universes.

He does not however, though he created us to receive it and desires for us to have it, put any of His Own Divine Essence (Divine Love) inside of us unless we ask for it in earnest and frequent longings and meditation, as he honors the free-will that he endowed us with. But he wants us to be completely transformed by partaking of his Divine Essence/Love/Nature (the Living Waters of which Jesus spoke) and to become His True Children who have true assurance of immortality separate from himself, but who are also One with Him.

The difference is between a being whose soul was created in the "image" of God, and a fully transformed Child of God possessed of the "substance" of God and fit to enter the Kingdom of God where only divinity can enter in.

Jesus showed us for the first time what a being fully transformed in the Love of God looks like and acts like, and today there are millions like him in the Kingdom of God, but he is still their beloved Master and the most possessed of God's Love (our souls expand) and the most humble "Divine Angel" of all and lives nearest the fountainhead of God's Emanations.

Following are excerpts from Jesus' Second Coming Message Series, 1914 to present. References are to the four volume book set True Gospel Revealed Anew By Jesus, page numbers are from 1st and 2nd printings respectively:

Who and What is God?
“…God is of form such as to give Him an entity and Substance and seat of habitation, in contra-distinction to that God which…is said to be everywhere…in the trees and rocks, and thunder and lightning, and in men and beasts…and in whom men are said to live and move and have their being. No, this concept of God is not in accord with the truth, and it is vital to the knowledge and salvation of men that such conception of God be not entertained or believed in… although it may be surprising and startling to mortals to hear, God has His habitation, and God the Substance, the Self-existing and Soul form, has His locality, and men do not live and move and have their existence in God; but in His emanations and expressions and spirit they do.”
Jesus, Vol. 1, p 61/69, 5/25/1917

Who and What is God? - continued
“God is in His Heavens, and those heavens have a locality, just as the different spheres of the spirit world, in which spirits have their homes…His locality is way beyond the highest Celestial Spheres…and as (spirits) progress, the…closer they come in contact with these attributes of God, which are constantly flowing from Him…”
Anne Rollins, grandmother to James Padgett, Vol. 1, p 67/76, 2/25/1916

Ann Rollins: Forgiveness
“…The Divine Love of the Father… is free and waiting to be bestowed upon all men… God will not, cannot, bestow this Love unless man seeks for it in earnestness and faith…”
Ann Rollins, Vol 1, p 128/144, 3/31/1915

Romans 5:5 "...and hope does not disappoint us because God has poured out His Love into our souls by the Holy Spirit which He has given to us.

1 John 3:9 "Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God."

This is what is written about what God is and wants.
It’s not actually anything other then the assumptions of man.

 

[MonkeyFire]

God doesn’t allow for suffering, but He did give the spirit of wrath a chance at life, and we all went in.

 

[Lisa Sims]

This is what is written about what God is and wants.
It’s not actually anything other then the assumptions of man.

I appreciate your comment, M__

A little history on Jesus' Second Coming Message Series, 1914 to present:

These Messages began coming in 1914, just before the beginning of the 1st World War. Jesus selected one James E. Padgett (1852-1923), an attorney, actually the Assistant District Attorney of Washington D.C., as his instrument for receiving these messages through automatic writing. It was necessary for Jesus to "coach" Mr. Padgett for many months on praying for the receipt of God's Love before the necessary rapport could be established to accurately receive the content of the messages that Jesus needed to deliver to all the people of the world.

It was also difficult for Mr. Padgett, a Methodist Sunday School Teacher to overcome His doubts that this was really Jesus of the Bible communicating with him. It was quite a serious problem which was only resolved by the flowing, more and more, of God's Love into his soul as he prayed for it.

Since Mr. Padgett's passing in 1923, various other persons of sensitive nature (most of whom practiced the teachings of the Padgett Messages) have been tagged to deliver the continuing series of messages by various methods, all of whom had to be developed in their possession of the Divine Love to the extent necessary to achieve rapport with the inhabitants of the Kingdom of God who had messages to deliver. This guaranteed (to the extent possible) that only Truth would be delivered to us.

Details of James Padgett’s Life
"My friends and fellow travelers on the Divine Path, I send you greetings from our side of life and salutations towards your efforts to bring the truths of our beloved Father’s Love to the wider world..." James Padgett, 7/17/2014 (Includes link to Helen Padgett's message of 7/18/2014)

Will Address Those Who Attend 100th Anniversary Event James Padgett, 3/17/2023

Dr. Daniel G. Samuels (1908-1982) was Jesus' Second chosen instrument to receive his Second Coming Message Series after the death of James Padgett.

Turning the Corner Dr. Daniel Samuels 9/21/2006

A failed attempt by Jesus and the Celestials to reach humanity with Divine Truth from spirit was made with Emanuel Swedenborg, (1668-1772)
Messages Concerning Swedenborg

To date, there are thousands of messages, from 100's of vetted spirits channeled through dozens of Divine Love mediums of whom Al Fike is one of the most prolific channelers today of Celestial Messages.

Bible References
John 16:25 “Thus far I have spoken to you only in parables… but a time is coming when I will tell you plainly about the Father.
ALL of Jesus' parables were ELEVENTH COMMANDMENT teachings about the RE-BIRTH in God's Love–either how and why to pray for God's Love ourselves or how to spread that Knowledge to others using the LOVE (LIGHT, “SALT”) that we receive and thereby growing our own LOVE (exponentially?)
Is this “Second Coming Message Series” that we now have, and that is ongoing, not the fulfillment of the prophecy of this verse–that he would tell us plainly about the Father? Should we look for another? Have we not been expecting his return? If not now, when? Can the Earth and it's creatures much longer endure the misbehavior of man? Can a house divided against itself continue to stand? Do these spirits not pass the test?

John 8:31-32 "...Therefore Jesus was saying to the Jews having believed in Him, “If you abide in My word, you are truly My disciples, you will know the truth, and the truth will set free you.”

John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

For those who believe these messages are the work of man, Dr. Samuels has this to say from the introduction to Angelic Revelations of Divine Truth, Vol 2, p xxvii:

The True Mission of Jesus
"...In short, it would be impossible here to comment on everything which is of interest to those who, whether they believe in this source of revelation or take issue with the material therein contained, are concerned with things of the spiritual and religious. But one thing must be said in closing, and that is: that these messages, whether they be the result of mortal or spirit intelligences, are so thought provoking and challenging in their nature, by declaring At-onement with the Father through prayer for His Divine Love, that they can truly be called a New Reformation in Christian Thinking." Daniel Samuels, Washington, D.C., August 1956.

Many Blessings
Lisa

 

[Arnaud1221]

Some are loved, some are hated.

 

[PureX]

Now I have faith and a belief in what objective reality is, but I don't declare that a fact.

As a side note, I appreciate the fact that you understand that you have chosen to believe in the ideal of an objective reality. And can say so.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Commonly means most often, the majority of times,

I'd say that commonly means not rarely or unusually and includes things that happen a minority of the time (occasionally) as well as things that happen more often than not (usually), but more than rarely. That's how I understand and use those words.

Left-handedness occurs commonly, but in the minority of people. Righthandedness is even more common (people are usually right-handed). Albinism is rare or uncommon.

Christianity does not seem to have all the answers. Blaming God for suffering seems to be true in the sense that God made this universe and the potential for suffering

This is surprising to see. I don't think I've ever seen a believer blame his god for anything. Good for you for countenancing the problem. Better to say that it is a mystery that you can't explain than to try to explain it unconvincingly. Neither approach will change the minds of skeptics, but the latter makes believers look less honest and objective, which I understand as damage done to them by their faith.

Better to just be honest than tendentious. You even were commended for it this time. Your stock just went up.

I suppose that Jesus could be said to be the Christian answer for suffering in the world. Jesus was sent to do away with suffering in God's way

But there is still gratuitous suffering.

God doesn’t allow for suffering

Then that deity is either unaware of man's suffering or unable to prevent it., because suffering is everywhere.

This is another area that is easy for the unbeliever but leads to moral mental gymnastics in believers who need to reconcile reality with their theistic beliefs. The answer for why suffering exists is straightforward from an atheistic humanist perspective. Constructive suffering promotes survival. People who can't feel pain die young. Diabetics that are insensate in the feet suffer damage there because of it, including being unaware that pets are chewing their flesh.

Given that, and the fact that nature is blind and bad things happen to good people because of course they will if nobody is preventing it, there's no problem except how to mitigate gratuitous suffering, which is a humanist goal. We do that by keeping people safe and healthy - no lead in the paint on children's furniture, fighting drunk driving, treating that diabetes, etc. - and free of privation (food and shelter insecurity), violence, discrimination, and whatever other factors in life promote suffering.

******

And if anybody reading thought that thought that there were a lot of uncommonly used words in this post that perhaps he didn't understand, yes, there were.

And not to impress, but because they were the good words for the occasion that I wanted to share.

Here they are again:

• countenance (v) - admit as acceptable or possible (as a noun, it means a face)
• tendentious - expressing or intending to promote a particular cause or point of view, especially a controversial one
• gratuitous - uncalled for; lacking good reason; unwarranted
• insensate - lacking physical sensation
• privation - a state in which things that are essential for human well-being such as food and warmth are scarce or lacking

Sorry if this seems pretentious.

• pretentious - attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed