Religion's Future or Lack of it

[беспокойный путешественни]

What's the future for religion?

I can imagine that monotheistic religions will decline faster than pagan traditions, because they require a strong authority to function properly.

 

[Madsaac]

Declining where? Because globally there isn't much of a decline at all. Religion is declining in the West because people are more individualistic and not inclined to regimentation of dogma and doctrine. They aren't exactly becoming atheists either rather they have made their spiritual views more personal which is the reason why "spiritual not religious" and the various permutations of it is the fastest growing religion in the West. People are just trading their Bibles for yoga mats.

Yes you are right. I was referring to West and the decline of the traditional religions. Other countries adopting the more traditional religions will soon see the error of their ways.

And I think its a good thing that people are becoming more spiritual because people with yoga mats have the same rights as others in society.

 

[беспокойный путешественни]

people with yoga mats have the same rights as others in society.

That's the first thing I will ban when the people will finally make me their glorious leader!

 

[PearlSeeker]

What's the future for religion? It's a big question but it looks like it's on the decline, especially in west.

What are the reasons for the decline?
- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking
- Any more?

And how long has religion got? A few hundred years or less?

Here are just a couple of the hundreds of articles on the subject.

Why is religion suddenly declining?

An analysis of religious trends from 1981 to 2007 in 49 countries containing 60% of the world’s population did not find a global resurgence of religion—most high-income countries were becoming less religious—however, it did show that in 33 of the 49 countries studied, people had become more...

blog.oup.com

A surprising explanation for the global decline of religion

Since the year 2000, there has been a global decline of religion. In a recent paper, scientists suggest automation could be the cause.

bigthink.com

The religious profile of the world is rapidly changing, driven primarily by differences in fertility rates and the size of youth populations among the world’s major religions, as well as by people switching faiths. Over the next four decades, Christians will remain the largest religious group, but Islam will grow faster than any other major religion. If current trends continue, by 2050 …

Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population.

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

As of 2010, nearly a third of the world's population identified as Christian. But if demographic trends persist, Islam will close the gap by the middle of the 21st century.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I would offer in rerurn, that Like it or not, humanity is one, we all have the same Spirit available, we are all created of the same Spirit.

You do not have to agree and that is a gift of the Spirit.

The Bible offers it is a personal choice ro be born from the flesh into the knowledge of the Spirit.

Regards Tony

Yeah, that is your faith. I have another one.

 

[Madsaac]

The religious profile of the world is rapidly changing, driven primarily by differences in fertility rates and the size of youth populations among the world’s major religions, as well as by people switching faiths. Over the next four decades, Christians will remain the largest religious group, but Islam will grow faster than any other major religion. If current trends continue, by 2050 …

Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population.

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

As of 2010, nearly a third of the world's population identified as Christian. But if demographic trends persist, Islam will close the gap by the middle of the 21st century.

www.pewresearch.org

Yeah here is a more recent projection below. Interesting stuff.

There is no doubt religion is declining in Europe, North America and Australia/NZ.

I don't know how to say this or sound prejudice but these parts of the world are the most 'developed' parts of world.

Compared to Africa, India, Middle East, South America where numbers may be stagnate or increasing in religion.

What sort of picture does this paint?

Well Europe, North America and Australia/NZ have:

- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking

Key Findings From the Global Religious Futures Project

The Global Religious Futures (GRF) project is jointly funded by The Pew Charitable Trusts and The John Templeton Foundation. Here are some big-picture findings from the GRF, together with context from other Pew Research Center studies.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That’s no different to opening my mouth, saying nothing, and then asking if the thing I didn’t say is something that exists.

Yeah, for now. But I am question if that knowledge is for all time and space when it comes to ultimate truth.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah here is a more recent projection below. Interesting stuff.

There is no doubt religion is declining in Europe, North America and Australia/NZ.

I don't know how to say this or sound prejudice but these parts of the world are the most 'developed' parts of world.

Compared to Africa, India, Middle East, South America where numbers may be stagnate or increasing in religion.

What sort of picture does this paint?

Well Europe, North America and Australia/NZ have:

- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking

Key Findings From the Global Religious Futures Project

The Global Religious Futures (GRF) project is jointly funded by The Pew Charitable Trusts and The John Templeton Foundation. Here are some big-picture findings from the GRF, together with context from other Pew Research Center studies.

www.pewresearch.org

Yeah, it is one long appeal to emotions.
Now I am not religious in the standard sense, but I can do individual critical thinking and your post seems to have the hidden assumptions that non-religion is better than religion. So to do critical thinking is in part to ask if there is any evidence that non-religion is better than religion.

And in the broad sense if what matters for being a human can be done with evidence?

 

[Tomef]

Yeah, for now. But I am question if that knowledge is for all time and space when it comes to ultimate truth.

To me it seems like a nonsense question. Is there an ultimate reality is a useful question, as it can be imagined that might mean something, the whole sum of everything there is. But what does ultimate truth refer to, even theoretically? It doesn’t mean anything. Ultimate truth about what, and how defined? You might say that maybe as some point the question might make sense, but until it does you just have a question about something you can’t define, like dry wetness or something like that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

To me it seems like a nonsense question. Is there an ultimate reality is a useful question, as it can be imagined that might mean something, the whole sum of everything there is. But what does ultimate truth refer to, even theoretically? It doesn’t mean anything. Ultimate truth about what, and how defined? You might say that maybe as some point the question might make sense, but until it does you just have a question about something you can’t define, like dry wetness or something like that.

Yes, the bold we can agree on.

 

[1213]

I like the truth so Jesus has never been annoying to me.

Nice

That said, the doctrines of Christianity annoy me to no end.

What doctrines and why?

 

[Quintessence]

What's science got to do with it? (Well a small part)

In the context of what I was talking about just then, I was making a comparison - lots of science advocates (myself included) bemoan the poor state of scientific literacy in the United States. But that pales in comparison to the vastly poorer state of religious literacy. Going into why is a bit of a tangent but is mainly intended to point out that those who think religion is on the decline are nearly always speaking out of ignorance. Or are being sloppy with words, which tends to happen out of ignorance as well. It would be accurate to say that some organized and institutional religions, specifically some branches of Christianity, are shrinking demographically in the United States. It's not accurate to then generalize this to religion as a whole, which is more or less intrinsic to the human species. Humans are myth-making, meaning-finding, value-attributing, relationship-forming, and celebration-throwing animals; that will continue as long as humans are human. Near as I can tell, anyway.

I'm talking about the changing landscape of religion and the influence it has on humanity, namely the west, and because of various reasons as stated in the OP, it's dying a slow death

And I'm referring to the big religions.

So I thought this thread would make you happy because Paganism could move on from it's little 'cubbyhole' into something bigger?

I don't care about that, and indigenous religions are one of the "big religions" of the world, not that it matters. So are religions that don't exactly fit the narrative you're trying to push here, like Buddhism and Hinduism. The problem with religion is that very little can be said about it until we get more specific. I suppose I get a bit tired at attempts at otherwise, even though they are unfortunately very common in my country. Folks conflate religion with Christianity (usually some particular type of Christianity they don't like is what they have in mind) all the time, and on top of that conflate religion with theism, accepting an afterlife, and a whole other assortment of things that don't particularly need to be part of any specific religion (and aren't). Like patriarchy. Or morality being governed by it. Or critical thinking somehow being anathema to it.

More thoughtful attempts have been made to examine demographic shifts amongst various religious traditions that (mostly) avoid these kinds of errors. PEW Research has taken a look at this, asking questions like why someone has (and if they have) changed religions and why:

About half of those who have become unaffiliated say – in response to the survey’s yes-or-no questions – that they became unaffiliated, at least in part, because they think of religious people as hypocritical, judgmental or insincere. Large numbers also say they became unaffiliated because they think that religious organizations focus too much on rules and not enough on spirituality, or that religious leaders are too focused on money and power rather than truth and spirituality. Another reason cited by many people who are now unaffiliated is the belief that many religions are partly true but no single religion is completely true. Fewer people, however, say they became unaffiliated because they think modern science proves that religion is just superstition, indicating that the belief that science disproves religion is a less important reason for becoming unaffiliated than disenchantment with religious people or institutions.

Faith in Flux

Revised February 2011* Americans change religious affiliation early and often. In total, about half of American adults have changed religious affiliation

www.pewresearch.org

If we want to know whether the things you cite as factors are actually important factors, research data is needed.

 

[Trailblazer]

What doctrines and why?

The following list contains some beliefs that are central to Christianity upon which the Christian doctrines are based.
These beliefs annoy me to no end because I believe they are false and they are misleading millions of people.

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth

 

[Madsaac]

Yeah, it is one long appeal to emotions.
Now I am not religious in the standard sense, but I can do individual critical thinking and your post seems to have the hidden assumptions that non-religion is better than religion. So to do critical thinking is in part to ask if there is any evidence that non-religion is better than religion.

And in the broad sense if what matters for being a human can be done with evidence?

Evidence below, well sort of but you get the gist and do you agree with the gist? Or would you prefer to live in a non secular society?

- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking

I'd say there are more

 

[Quintessence]

Evidence below, well sort of but you get the gist and do you agree with the gist? Or would you prefer to live in a non secular society?

- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking

I'd say there are more

Have you presented any actual research evidence to support this? I may have missed it if you presented your data earlier in the thread. Remember - "religion" (as if it is some monolithic entity) isn't even a thing. Specific religions and affiliations are.


Bonus homework - cover the extensive history of contributions of religion to education, science, society, and culture throughout human history?

 

[Madsaac]

In the context of what I was talking about just then, I was making a comparison - lots of science advocates (myself included) bemoan the poor state of scientific literacy in the United States. But that pales in comparison to the vastly poorer state of religious literacy. Going into why is a bit of a tangent but is mainly intended to point out that those who think religion is on the decline are nearly always speaking out of ignorance. Or are being sloppy with words, which tends to happen out of ignorance as well. It would be accurate to say that some organized and institutional religions, specifically some branches of Christianity, are shrinking demographically in the United States. It's not accurate to then generalize this to religion as a whole, which is more or less intrinsic to the human species. Humans are myth-making, meaning-finding, value-attributing, relationship-forming, and celebration-throwing animals; that will continue as long as humans are human. Near as I can tell, anyway.


I don't care about that, and indigenous religions are one of the "big religions" of the world, not that it matters. So are religions that don't exactly fit the narrative you're trying to push here, like Buddhism and Hinduism. The problem with religion is that very little can be said about it until we get more specific. I suppose I get a bit tired at attempts at otherwise, even though they are unfortunately very common in my country. Folks conflate religion with Christianity (usually some particular type of Christianity they don't like is what they have in mind) all the time, and on top of that conflate religion with theism, accepting an afterlife, and a whole other assortment of things that don't particularly need to be part of any specific religion (and aren't). Like patriarchy. Or morality being governed by it. Or critical thinking somehow being anathema to it.

More thoughtful attempts have been made to examine demographic shifts amongst various religious traditions that (mostly) avoid these kinds of errors. PEW Research has taken a look at this, asking questions like why someone has (and if they have) changed religions and why:

Faith in Flux

Revised February 2011* Americans change religious affiliation early and often. In total, about half of American adults have changed religious affiliation

www.pewresearch.org

If we want to know whether the things you cite as factors are actually important factors, research data is needed.

I understand what you mean, and I'll be the first to admit my threads/posts can be a little unrefined. I'm no Bertrand Russel or Richard Dawkins and won't pretend to be. However, I still want to express my point of view and on this occasion.......

Countries that think religion is less important, are better places to live....in general. And here are more recent findings from Pew on the subject.

Key Findings From the Global Religious Futures Project

The Global Religious Futures (GRF) project is jointly funded by The Pew Charitable Trusts and The John Templeton Foundation. Here are some big-picture findings from the GRF, together with context from other Pew Research Center studies.

www.pewresearch.org

When talking about religion, hear are some reasons to why I think they are better places to live.

- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking

Now you may disagree, which is fine. If you'd prefer to live in a Patriarchal society for example, then that's cool

 

[Quintessence]

Now you may disagree, which is fine. If you'd prefer to live in a Patriarchal society for example, then that's cool

I don't disagree because of my opinions about sexism and society (though I have plenty those) - I disagree because religion is not only an endemic and avoidable aspect of being human but because religion is an extremely heterogenous entity and I'm tired of folks painting it as if all the same when it very clearly isn't. Maybe you live in an extremely conservative area, but none of the things you cite have I noticed an absence of when looking at the broad spectrum of religious traditions in just my town. The UU fellowship alone defies pretty much the entire list of stuff you constructed there, as do the more progressive Christian churches here (there are many, I live in a university town - you see them flying pride flags during pride month all the time).

I'll dig into the PEW study some more when I've got a moment, though, so thanks for putting that back in as a reference for me!

 

[Madsaac]

I don't disagree because of my opinions about sexism and society (though I have plenty those) - I disagree because religion is not only an endemic and avoidable aspect of being human but because religion is an extremely heterogenous entity and I'm tired of folks painting it as if all the same when it very clearly isn't. Maybe you live in an extremely conservative area, but none of the things you cite have I noticed an absence of when looking at the broad spectrum of religious traditions in just my town. The UU fellowship alone defies pretty much the entire list of stuff you constructed there, as do the more progressive Christian churches here (there are many, I live in a university town - you see them flying pride flags during pride month all the time).

I'll dig into the PEW study some more when I've got a moment, though, so thanks for putting that back in as a reference for me!

No I should have been clearer, I was talking about the 'big three' religions. No, I live in Australia, a place where according to Pew, only 18% say religion is very important to them.

And I am looking in a broad spectrum, globally.

Finally, I just think if these types of religion didn't have such an influence on culture and societies, I think the world would be a better place.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Evidence below, well sort of but you get the gist and do you agree with the gist? Or would you prefer to live in a non secular society?

- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking

I'd say there are more

I don't agree with the gist of it.

 

[1213]

2) Jesus is the only way to God
3) Jesus rose from the dead
4) Jesus is going to return to earth

How much it will annoy you, when in the end it is shown to you that it is true?