Madsaac
Active Member
Mmm okay, I’m a little surprised
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Religion's Future or Lack of it
- Thread starter Madsaac
- Start date
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
You are taking a narrow view of religion and thus in effect culture. And futher you are taking your moral values for granted as you use them as hidden assumptions.
Which big three?
Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism?
Those are the three largest recognized-as-religions worldwide and within each there's quite a lot of diversity too. Given the heterogenaity in these groups, we almost might as well recognize the third largest unrecognized-as-religion as the "nones" instead which is technically third demographically and a real hodgepodge that lays bare the challenges trying to stuff something so complex into simplistic categorical boxes. It's often a bit weird to me that "Christianity" is spoken about like it's a single thing when they argue amongst each other all the time, don't believe or practice the same things, etc. There was a time I used terms like "Christianities" and "Islams" to emphasize that, but... folks just thought that was odd.
In any case, I am not a "world would be a better place" sort of person myself and find that sort of thinking at best the height of human hubris and at worst the dangerous road that paves for authoritarianism and oppression of others. The world is what it is, and it should never revolve around my (or anyone else's) personal opinions of what would be "better" for it given the inherently subjective nature of those assessments. Instead of focusing on destroying others (aka, getting rid of the influence of others - which in practical terms usually means oppression, displacement, and all sorts of other nasty things), focus on cultivating your lifeway and being the change you want too see. That's my view.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
2) Jesus is the only way to God.... Can never be shown to be true, it is only a belief/opinion.
3) Jesus rose from the dead.... Can never be shown to be true, it is unverified history.
4) Jesus is going to return to earth..... Is never going to happen unless Jesus lied. In that case, why believe anything else Jesus allegedly said?
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
No more means no further, never again.
no more
nothing further.
"there was no more to be said about it"
no further.
"you must have some soup, but no more wine"
exist no longer.
"the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
never again.
"mention his name no more to me"
neither.
"I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages
Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.
languages.oup.com
Trailblazer is 100% positive that it will not be shown to be true, as what Christianity awaits has already happened and did not happen in the way that causes Trailblazer's annoyance.
Regards Tony
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
The reasons for this increasing lack of belief are numerous but Dr Nadia Beider, a Sociology of Religion research fellow at University College London tells Euronews that the research suggests that a decline in religious engagement often leads to a lack of affiliation and date somewhere down the road thanks, in part, due to the “level of effort required to sustain regular religious behaviour such as church attendance”.
“The process accelerates over time as people disaffiliate from the religion in which they were raised and an increasing proportion are raised without religion”, Beider adds /... /
“It seems that the more universal explanations of the link between religious decline and modernity such as the shift towards secular, rational modes of thinking, individualisation, and greater emphasis on self-actualization values, notably in societies whose citizens feel generally safe and secure, less so in countries suffering from conflict, dislocation and economic precarity help explain why secularisation takes place”, Dr Nadia Beider tells Euronews.
Source:
Losing my religion: More people across Europe have little or no belief
In Italy, the cradle of Catholicism, new research suggests that only 19% of citizens attend services at least weekly, while 31% never attend at all - and it's a trend already growing in some European nations.
But I asked, how much it will annoy you, when it is shown that you are wrong... ...ok, you don't have to answer to that.
Jesus said that righteous will go to eternal life. If it is so, he has defined who will go, and therefore he is the way. I believe in the end you will see that to be true.
I think you have understood the Bible wrongly. It is said Jesus returns the same way the people saw him going.
"You men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was received up from you into the sky will come back in the same way as you saw him going into the sky."
Acts 1:11
Jesus doesn't say he will not return. He says "see me no more", doesn't necessary mean "you will not see me ever again", especially when other scriptures show that there are people who will see him, as also John 14:19 shows by saying "...but ye see me...".
Thanks, I don't see how anyone can think the end of this world has already happened.
Madsaac
Active Member
Yeah, I like to think this statement runs along the lines of what I was trying to get at.
- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Less hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking
Source:
Losing my religion: More people across Europe have little or no belief
In Italy, the cradle of Catholicism, new research suggests that only 19% of citizens attend services at least weekly, while 31% never attend at all - and it's a trend already growing in some European nations.www.euronews.com
Good article.
And hopefully, because of our shrinking world, other parts of the world will come to the same realisations, sooner rather than later
I see it as the end of an era, and I see the old order way of things has ended, the world is in transition and a new ways of things is emerging.
These current conflicts are the dying pains of unbridled, liberty, national pride and materialism.
Regards Tony
Madsaac
Active Member
No hidden assumptions, numbers do point to a line of thinking, 'non/less' religious places are better to live in.
I ask again, would you prefer to live in a non secular society?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What are you referring to?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
The fact that we ask these questions suggests there is something in our nature which is drawn to look beyond the obvious. A need in in us which cannot be satisfied materially or even perhaps, intellectually.
You can call the question “What is truth” nonsense if you like, but can you stop your innermost self asking it?
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus said that righteous will go to eternal life does not mean that Jesus is the way to eternal life, since people don't need to believe in Jesus to be righteous. Maybe in the end you will see that to be true when you die and see non-Christians in heaven.
Jesus said that He is the way to eternal life, so He is the way, but that does not mean that He is the Only Way, it just means He is one way.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Acts 1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
The disciples (Men of Galilee) were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky, and then they said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven.
The angels said: This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.
That is not a reason to believe that the same Jesus will return as He ascended since angels carry no authority. Some angels 'believed' that Jesus was coming back to earth the same way He left. So what? My point is that Jesus never said that He was coming back to earth, never. Rather, Jesus said He was no more in this world.
"see me no more" means "you will not see me ever again". Jesus is saying that He will never return to earth.
There are no other scriptures where Jesus says that he is coming back to this earth, not even one in the entire New Testament.
Christians assumed that the return of Christ meant the return of Jesus, but it never meant that.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
"But ye see me" does not mean that Jesus is going to return and be seen. The verse does not say that.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
I ask how do you know better? How do you know what religion is? Are your version so for all of the world and all humans? And please use critical thinking.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I prefer to live in a secular society that promotes freedom of religion.
I would despise living in a secular society that undermines, or even persecutes religion, such as the USSR.
Tomef
Well-Known Member
‘What is truth’ and ‘what is the ultimate truth’ are different questions. Some things are true, some things are authentic and genuine, for example, and others are not. We can establish whether or not some statement is true in the sense of does it relate to an experience of what we call reality. But this notion of ‘ultimate truth’ doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a random fantasy idea. Ultimate truth about what? For it to make any sense, some sort of definition is needed, and that would vary from one person to the next. What is being described is not a quest for ‘ultimate truth’ but a failure to organise one’s mind in relation to meaningful questions.
Are you seriously undecided about this?
Personally I would have said, "since religions are man made..."
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Well, how do you know that your understanding of true is true? You seem to be using a version of the correspondence theory of truth. But that is not the only one:
Truth | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
And how do you know as true that you are speaking for a we: "... what we call reality."
In effect now this has entered the land of philosophy. So you run into that the defintion of truth and reality varies from persom to person.
The Jew's, The Christians and the Muslims all await the Messiah, all in their own way. Many of the concepts expect a twin revelation.
In 1844 this expectation was fulfilled, the promise they all await dawned in Persia, from the East of the Holy Land, the Bab, the Gate of the One promised to bring about the Day of the Lord, gave the Message and said his Messagea was ro prepare humanity for the One whom God would make Manifest, who became known as Baha'u'llah "The Glory of God".
The Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah were given so humanity would find unity in its diversity, we were warned of the consequences of our disunity, we were warned of the consequences of rejecting those messages.
It is now history and how those Messages are shaping the world we now live in, are becoming clearer each day, as the conflicts around the world are changing the direction of humanity dramatically.
Regards Tony