Shantanu
Well-Known Member
Why would the Indian society from Vedic times 6000 years ago give rise to so many different religions?
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Religions in Human Evolution
- Thread starter Shantanu
- Start date
Do you know what you're talking about?
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
By definition of a society.
What about religions that don't bind people together under rules of conduct? That seems like an oversimplification.
Orbit
I'm a planet
Because that's what happens. Social needs change, religions react; religions travel to new regions and get adapted to local culture and values. It's a reflection of the diversity of societies in the region, and changing social needs over time.
Orbit
I'm a planet
The definition of society is "a collection of institutions". Religion is one of those institutions, no less or more important than the other institutions such as economy, family, and government.
I think so.
Start with the "proto-religion" or "ur-Faith" as the base and make a family tree of sorts. Doing this you would find how each faith slowly became something different. When, for instance, a heretical sect of Judaism became Christianity, or when the original Germanic faith became something more than just the proto-IndoEuropean faith in a different setting.
Shantanu:
Darwin's Cathedral: Evolution, Religion, and the Nature of Society by David Sloan Wilson advances the notion religiosity evolved in humans because it provided survival advantages via group cohesion.
In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion by Scot Atran advances the notion that religiosity evolved in humans as a side-effect of certain other traits, such as Agent Detection, which had evolutionary advantages.
You might also want to check out The Evolutionary Psychology of Religion.
Finally, you might want to contact Moni_Gail, who is a member of this Forum and who did her thesis in neuropsychology on this subject.
I hope this helps.
Darwin's Cathedral: Evolution, Religion, and the Nature of Society by David Sloan Wilson advances the notion religiosity evolved in humans because it provided survival advantages via group cohesion.
In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion by Scot Atran advances the notion that religiosity evolved in humans as a side-effect of certain other traits, such as Agent Detection, which had evolutionary advantages.
You might also want to check out The Evolutionary Psychology of Religion.
Finally, you might want to contact Moni_Gail, who is a member of this Forum and who did her thesis in neuropsychology on this subject.
I hope this helps.
Orbit
I'm a planet
This only works for splinter religions and can't account for independent invention in other cultures. For example, Native American religion has nothing to do with India.
I see what you mean. The Baptists of North America are enough to fill a huge hierarchy according to that method.
shawn001
Well-Known Member
Evidence of biological basis for religion in human evolution
Evidence of biological basis for religion in human evolution -- ScienceDaily
Evolution of Religion
Evolution of Religion
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
The development of religions begins in a small way, a person has mental conceptions brought about from brain/mind activity, however that is precipitated whether through internal convictions or through external revelations. He or she publicises this. People listen and if they are convinced they enquire what he is talking about. He acquires disciples and with them may or may not formulate the full conception of a religion. If people then like what this group are saying they will follow the person as a saviour and the religion. If they do not like it, it will die there and then or may just acquire a small number of followers. This way some relitions develop into group activity in which people are bound together as a social group.
If the social group thus formed successfully propagates itself, it is said to be adapted to the environment by natural selection and human evolution is charted accordingly.
This is the nature of human evolution, which is different from purely biological evolution in which religion plays no part, and which is guided by social genetic speciation through genetic mutations just like in all other animal species. Human evolution proceeded by social genetic speciation for up to 2 million years from Homo ergaster out of Africa but in the past 20,000 years has been supplanted by religious social speciation. I believe that there is a reason for this. God does exist and has commandeered human minds in the past 2,000 years into a more civilised form of living and this has been done by making humans aware of the supernatural dimension to life.
Asha
Member
Namaste
The way I see it is that because our conditions are allways changing we need differnt answers to the different problems that we are facing.
These problems that we experience are due to our living under the Illusury power of Maya so we are constantly forgetful of our relationship to the supreme being and of the laws of nature. So because of our forgetfulness the supreme being re appears time and time again for the sole purpose of re awakening our consciousness. of course we then veiw him differenly depending upon which tradition we follow.
But realy there is one true God, how does the saying go, ''we all know him by different names''
And as Krishna says in the Gita ''When ever there is a decline in morality and a rise irriligion I myself will appear''
Jai Shree Krishna
Asha
The way I see it is that because our conditions are allways changing we need differnt answers to the different problems that we are facing.
These problems that we experience are due to our living under the Illusury power of Maya so we are constantly forgetful of our relationship to the supreme being and of the laws of nature. So because of our forgetfulness the supreme being re appears time and time again for the sole purpose of re awakening our consciousness. of course we then veiw him differenly depending upon which tradition we follow.
But realy there is one true God, how does the saying go, ''we all know him by different names''
And as Krishna says in the Gita ''When ever there is a decline in morality and a rise irriligion I myself will appear''
Jai Shree Krishna
Asha
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
You seem to be suggesting that God has not left us to natural forces of evolution where animals adapt to their physical environment, with those people who adapt best succeed in passing on their genes to create new generations. If you are indicating this it means that the purpose of our existence is not to survive and by doing so pass on our genes but something else. Am I right?
And if so, what do you think the purpose of our living is? What happens to us individually or as humanity if we do not live according to the dharma established by Sri Krishna from yuga to yuga? Do we suffer? Does Nature get harmed? Is that why He comes from time to time to restore dharma? If so, what are His means for getting us to follow Him instead of following our adharma ways?
Or does God come to us from time to time just to show off and establish His authority over us?
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Asha
Member
Namaste
On one level it is possible to say that there is some sort of evolution of the species, and this we can observe through science and archeology.
But there is also evolution on a very differnt level this has nothing to do with genes, so there are two things hapening here one is the evolution of the soul, whos purpose it is to attain all knowingness, to escape this physical realm and attain pure knowledge of Godhead. on the other level there is evolution whthin the material realm, this is evolution of matter where by the earth and its inhabiting life forms mutate depending upon the material conditions prevailing. This is a natural prosess although we observe it as evolution.
Both are depending to some extent on karma; action, our spiritual activities create the conditions for our spiritual development and our mundane activities create the causes of our phisical conditions.
Yes we suffer by becoming traped in a constantly deteriorating conditions and nature itself suffers due to our lack of respect.
Yes Sree Krishna promices that he will come time and time again to re establish Dharma. Last time he came in his own personal form as Bhagavan Shree Krishna he came to re establish rightious rule and to see in the begining of this age of Kali, he came in his personal form which is all atractive he came to steal the hearts of everyone. As a child he atracts the love of every mother, everyone adores him even though he is sometimes a little naughty, then when he grows up he befrends the cowheard boys, then he steals the harts of the cow heard madens of Vrindarvan. Then he defeats the evil Kamsa freeing everyone from his tyrany. Everywhere he went the people loved him, then as an adult he stood by as a knoble friend to the Kshatriya families to the Kuravas and the Pandavas, but due to their wickedness and desirous nature the Kuravas in their blindness would not listen to the advice of Sree Krishna so he used the pretext of war to deliver the Gita the song of Sree Bhagavan. thus he taught Dharma in a way accessable to the people of the coming age of Kali, and rid the world of the wicked Kuravas.
And still 5000 years after many devotees read the Gita everyday so that they might understand how to act and what is their constitutional position in relation to Lord Krishna.
Why would the Supreme personality even be interested to show off to such insugnificant beings as ourselves?
We are so stupid to even think that he needs to establish autority he is all powerfull, he could blow away this entire universe if he wished but he lives in our hearts, he resides in every living moving thing, it is for us to realise his authority.
Also if Sree Krishna wanted to show his might he could do so many powerfull things but instead when Indra became puffed up with his own self importance and tried to show of his power by throwing terible rain storms at the inhabitants of Goverdhan, Krishna could easily have destroyed him as he did Kamsa, but no He just held up the Goverdhan hill to shelter the cowheard folk and all of their animals.untill indra realised his stupidity.
Also he came as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in this instance he did not show off he hid himself, all he did was to show his attractiveness and enchant people to follow in the chanting of Harinama. this shows the gentle and loving nature of Shree Krishna, he will use his allatractiveness to win your heart.
Jai Shree Krishna
Asha
On one level it is possible to say that there is some sort of evolution of the species, and this we can observe through science and archeology.
But there is also evolution on a very differnt level this has nothing to do with genes, so there are two things hapening here one is the evolution of the soul, whos purpose it is to attain all knowingness, to escape this physical realm and attain pure knowledge of Godhead. on the other level there is evolution whthin the material realm, this is evolution of matter where by the earth and its inhabiting life forms mutate depending upon the material conditions prevailing. This is a natural prosess although we observe it as evolution.
Both are depending to some extent on karma; action, our spiritual activities create the conditions for our spiritual development and our mundane activities create the causes of our phisical conditions.
Yes we suffer by becoming traped in a constantly deteriorating conditions and nature itself suffers due to our lack of respect.
Yes Sree Krishna promices that he will come time and time again to re establish Dharma. Last time he came in his own personal form as Bhagavan Shree Krishna he came to re establish rightious rule and to see in the begining of this age of Kali, he came in his personal form which is all atractive he came to steal the hearts of everyone. As a child he atracts the love of every mother, everyone adores him even though he is sometimes a little naughty, then when he grows up he befrends the cowheard boys, then he steals the harts of the cow heard madens of Vrindarvan. Then he defeats the evil Kamsa freeing everyone from his tyrany. Everywhere he went the people loved him, then as an adult he stood by as a knoble friend to the Kshatriya families to the Kuravas and the Pandavas, but due to their wickedness and desirous nature the Kuravas in their blindness would not listen to the advice of Sree Krishna so he used the pretext of war to deliver the Gita the song of Sree Bhagavan. thus he taught Dharma in a way accessable to the people of the coming age of Kali, and rid the world of the wicked Kuravas.
And still 5000 years after many devotees read the Gita everyday so that they might understand how to act and what is their constitutional position in relation to Lord Krishna.
Why would the Supreme personality even be interested to show off to such insugnificant beings as ourselves?
We are so stupid to even think that he needs to establish autority he is all powerfull, he could blow away this entire universe if he wished but he lives in our hearts, he resides in every living moving thing, it is for us to realise his authority.
Also if Sree Krishna wanted to show his might he could do so many powerfull things but instead when Indra became puffed up with his own self importance and tried to show of his power by throwing terible rain storms at the inhabitants of Goverdhan, Krishna could easily have destroyed him as he did Kamsa, but no He just held up the Goverdhan hill to shelter the cowheard folk and all of their animals.untill indra realised his stupidity.
Also he came as Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in this instance he did not show off he hid himself, all he did was to show his attractiveness and enchant people to follow in the chanting of Harinama. this shows the gentle and loving nature of Shree Krishna, he will use his allatractiveness to win your heart.
Jai Shree Krishna
Asha
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
But every individual has a different soul, depending on the guna consciousness energy that he or she is accessing. And this soul dies by dissolving into its constituent atoms when we stop living and are buried or cremated. The soul is not something that goes into the atmosphere and then waits for another human being or an animal into which it deserves to go for its next birth. That would be impossible for even God to implement, would it not?
"So is religion an adaptation or a by-product of our evolution? Perhaps one day we will find compelling evidence that a capacity for religious thoughts, rather than ‘religion’ in the modern form of socio-political institutions, contributed to fitness in ancestral times. For the time being, the data support a more modest conclusion: religious thoughts seem to be an emergent property of our standard cognitive capacities."
from the attached/uploaded Nature article "Religion: Bound to Believe?"
"Religious belief and disbelief share the same underlying pathways and can be explained within a single evolutionary framework that is grounded in both genetic and cultural evolution"
From the abstract to the attached/uploaded Trends in Cognitive Science paper "The origins of religious disbelief"
"Most attempts at an evolutionary account of religion have proved unsatisfactory because a single characteristic identified as crucial to the origin of religion is not in fact general"
From the only remaining of the three uploaded/attached papers
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
The evidence is strong that the most successful religious groupings (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism) as determined by the number of their followers focused on the importance of marriage and having children as well as nurturing them while atheistic religions do not place such emphasis. The more intense this aspect of a religion is, the greater its success in proliferation terms regardless of adverse climatic conditions in terms of environmental impact on human survival. This would suggest that religions can indeed have an evolutionary role in the propagation of the species.
This is of course different to the standard theory of the selection of human genes by the natural environment (Darwinism) as it is the result of a mentally-inspired drive to procreate. Whether the source of this mental-drive to procreate is gene-formulated or externally woven into the psyche is a matter for debate. The fact that there are atheistic religions and philosophies that focus on other aspects of living (sattvic, versus tamasic or rajasic) indicates that the mental thoughts inspiring humans is differentiated into these three gunas and so produces a more complex picture on how human evolution proceeds. As such it assigns a role for God in generating the guna-consciousness that then generates the differences in human behaviour.
Hinduism is a fairly recent religion that became one largely in the exchanges between Western thought and Eastern tradition during colonialism. In fact, the modern concept of religion is fairly new. Honestly I don't really care. I think the evidence is in favor of religion being an evolutionary advantage rather than a by-product. I just gave you some critiques of this view I had on hand.
The single greatest predictor of success in religion is a doctrinal system. Of course, that cuts out the vast majority or religions.
So is modern evolutionary theory.
As open to debate as evolutionary theory is, I suppose. It's sort of fundamental, but then people debate whether or not the Earth was created 6,000 years ago, so in some sense everything is a matter of debate. That doesn't mean it should be.
That can't possibly be true, as atheism is a fairly modern phenomenon, and humans today have been around for well-over 100,000 years. How could concepts that didn't exist until long after the environment(s) which dictated our evolutionary trajectory determine our evolutionary trajectory?