Religious Affiliation in USA Continues to Decline. WHY?

[ThePainefulTruth]

I have not ever seen an atheist american in my life,in real time. The least is a sort of theistic deist.

???

 

[Muffled]

Don't you mean "Born again Christians sin less because Jesus saves us from sinning"? After all, the point you made is that "everyone sins to some extent, just that some do it more than others.."

I believe it generally words as salvation from sin and sinning is included in that but you would be correct in saying that He does not save from all sin. I believe that is because He wants us to fight it on our own sometimes and we are apt to fail which only reminds us why we need a savior.

 

[Muffled]

Why do you say Christians instead of ' so-called Christians ' ?
Who remains on earth according to Proverbs 2:21-22 ?_____________
Who inherits earth forever according to Matthew 5:5, and for how long Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29 ?__________

I believe I say Christians in general because they are the ones most likely to go to Heaven.

I believe I don't care what proverbs says because everyone dies.

I believe Matthew 5:5 is a general statement not a particular statement about any particular time. Are you going to tell me there are no wicked people on earth now?

I don't believe in relating Psalms to Mat because it is out of context.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe I say Christians in general because they are the ones most likely to go to Heaven.
I believe I don't care what proverbs says because everyone dies.
I believe Matthew 5:5 is a general statement not a particular statement about any particular time. Are you going to tell me there are no wicked people on earth now?
I don't believe in relating Psalms to Mat because it is out of context.

Right, everyone dies - Romans 5:12, but does that mean enemy death will never stop ? - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8 ________
The time is coming on earth when ' death will be No more ' - Revelation 21:4-5. No one dies in heaven, the death problem exists here on earth.
There are No tombs ( graves ) in heaven, and Jesus will call the dead out of their tombs - John 5:28-29 - tombs located on earth.
The majority of people - John 3:13 - will have a healthy sound physical resurrection back to life on earth.

We are at the threshold of the coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37 - when righteous living people on earth can continue to live on earth right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth.
The wicked ones will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7

During Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth is when even ' enemy death ' will come to a final end on earth
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Revelation 22:2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe it generally words as salvation from sin and sinning is included in that but you would be correct in saying that He does not save from all sin. I believe that is because He wants us to fight it on our own sometimes and we are apt to fail which only reminds us why we need a savior.

Those of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 are Not saved
Jesus' ransom does Not cover all - Matthew 20:28 - but covers most or many.
Wicked people will be destroyed forever ( annihilated ) - Psalms 92:7

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am of no religion. I believe in God the Father, his son, our Lord Jesus, and Gods written word. All religions are false, and all religious leaders are not teaching Gods word.

It is the Bible itself that speaks against false clergy - see previous post # 183
The teachings of Jesus are religious teachings, and Jesus believed Scripture is religious truth at John 17:17
What did God's Son say as recorded at John 4:23-24 ?

 

[Muffled]

Right, everyone dies - Romans 5:12, but does that mean enemy death will never stop ? - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8 ________
The time is coming on earth when ' death will be No more ' - Revelation 21:4-5. No one dies in heaven, the death problem exists here on earth.
There are No tombs ( graves ) in heaven, and Jesus will call the dead out of their tombs - John 5:28-29 - tombs located on earth.
The majority of people - John 3:13 - will have a healthy sound physical resurrection back to life on earth.

We are at the threshold of the coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37 - when righteous living people on earth can continue to live on earth right into the start of Jesus' coming 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth.
The wicked ones will be destroyed forever according to Psalms 92:7

During Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over earth is when even ' enemy death ' will come to a final end on earth
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Revelation 22:2

I believe this fact does not exclude those from Heaven being resurrected. He didn't say "all people are in tombs" but "all the people who are in tombs."

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The concept seems to be that Jesus is coming from somewhere and bringing people with Him but it is not simply the dead in tombs but those who are in Jesus. However it does not say where people in Jesus are so I believe it is possible for Him to bring people from Heaven. Those in tombs do not need to be brought because they are already here.

 

[Revoltingest]

Back to the OP, I speculate that several things going on......
- Government is less hostile to non-believers, which is less discouraging to those on the fence about abandoning faith.
- The more non-believers there are, the more exposure believers have to to generally non-threatening heathens.
They see we're not so different.
- As cosmology advances, it's so gosh darn interesting that it inspires examining bizarre concepts with more openness.
Since it also addresses matters which intersect religion, people are more receptive to godlessness.
- Previously easily hidden evils of churches are now more exposed, eg, priests molesting children.
This can sow seeds of disillusionment with a previously trusted faith.
- Everyone trusts Ian McKellen

 

[outhouse]

Look up the word hearsay

I know the legal definition quite well. Do you understand how many people are on death row because of it?

"this is hilarious"

What I find funny is not against the rules.


After all you insult our intellect saying we cannot know morals without what we call ancient mythology.

I am factually more "moral" then most religious people.

And for you to say we have poor reason and feelings because we don't live mythology is more then just funny, but it is a personal attack.

 

[outhouse]

how can they know what's moral if it doesn't come from God

Morals do not come from mythology or religion.

Morals come from the conscious mind. People can factually tell what is right and wrong without theism.

so all too often they just make it up as they go, without reason, using only irrational, untempered feelings

Theism is not required for the best reason and the best feelings humanity can offer.

Morals, reason and emotions, are not centered around religion. They are the center of what it is to be human. Religion Is not required for someone to be a good person.


That's why prisons are full of religious people.

 

[outhouse]

people who dish it out can't take it.

It should not be about winning a debate.

But your the only one complaining, after putting others with different lack of beliefs down first.

So do you think all 2B people in your faith "if" they were all the same, are the only people on the planet with morals, reason and feelings?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I have not ever seen an atheist american in my life,in real time. The least is a sort of theistic deist.

Huh? Go figure. I live in Australia and play basketball with one (an atheist American).

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I know the legal definition quite well. Do you understand how many people are on death row because of it?

You make an argument against hearsay, which is what I'm doing.

After all you insult our intellect saying we cannot know morals without what we call ancient mythology.
I am factually more "moral" then most religious people.
I don't know what you're arguing against. I'm saying the same thing.

I don't know how you came up with the understanding that I'd disagree with that. You're the one who said "This is hilarious", not me, except when I quoted you saying it.

And for you to say we have poor reason and feelings because we don't live mythology is more then just funny, but it is a personal attack.

I've said it once already, you seem to be quoting/responding to somebody besides me.

Morals do not come from mythology or religion.

Morals come from the conscious mind. People can factually tell what is right and wrong without theism/

Again, I agree.

?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe this fact does not exclude those from Heaven being resurrected. He didn't say "all people are in tombs" but "all the people who are in tombs."
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
The concept seems to be that Jesus is coming from somewhere and bringing people with Him but it is not simply the dead in tombs but those who are in Jesus. However it does not say where people in Jesus are so I believe it is possible for Him to bring people from Heaven. Those in tombs do not need to be brought because they are already here.

Good point ^above ^ that Jesus did Not say " all people are in tombs " because those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 are considered as: destroyed - Psalms 92:7; Acts 3:23

Those dead people are Not deemed worthy of a resurrection to either spirit life in heaven for some - Daniel 7:18, or resurrected back to future healthy physical life on earth.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........ and Does Not say 'was' a resurrection.
Those of Revelation 20:6 have a first or earlier resurrection being called to heaven to rule with Jesus for 1,000 years over earth, over those of Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29

At the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - Jesus will ' bring people ' (living people on earth) bring through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14
The living people on earth do Not need to be brought ' from heaven ' but remain alive right here on earth to be part of Jesus millennium-long day of governing over earth. Psalms 72:8

Then, those in the God's memory in the graves or tombs on earth can have a healthy physical resurrection on earth. That will include King David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
Remember No one who died before Jesus is called to heaven - John 3:13; Matthew 11:11
Also, those of Hebrews chapter 11 will have a healthy physical resurrection on earth during Jesus' millennial reign over earth.
They, like David, can become ' princes ' on earth - Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Ezekiel 34:24

 

[JustWondering]

The decline of religion doesn't necessarily mean that more people are actively rejecting religion. When I think I can have a polite conversation with others (in person) about religion I find that many of them (even most that identify as being Christian) are extremely ignorant of the topic, seldom if ever go to church, and don't seem to have much interest in religion, period. What passes for culture in America has become highly materialistic, self-centered, and shallow. I think the average American's knowledge of their favorite celebrities far outweighs their knowledge of history, current events, and religion put together. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I don't think the factors driving the decline in religion in the US are going to lead us somewhere we want to be.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

The decline of religion doesn't necessarily mean that more people are actively rejecting religion. When I think I can have a polite conversation with others (in person) about religion I find that many of them (even most that identify as being Christian) are extremely ignorant of the topic, seldom if ever go to church, and don't seem to have much interest in religion, period.

And most of those who go to church regularly are just as ignorant, as I used to be when I was a Christian.

What passes for culture in America has become highly materialistic, self-centered, and shallow.

And it always has been, even (especially) among the religious. But the first two of those aren't necessarily bad, only internal shallowness is a terminal condition for the soul.

I think the average American's knowledge of their favorite celebrities far outweighs their knowledge of history, current events, and religion put together. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I don't think the factors driving the decline in religion in the US are going to lead us somewhere we want to be.

It's depressing, but you're probably right. That said, we aren't being tested by country, we're tested as individuals. Yes, we are morally bound to stand for the Truth, that's part of the test, even if there is no tester or ultimate reward other than fulfillment in this life and not wallowing in the sty as some others are want to do.

 

[Muffled]

Good point ^above ^ that Jesus did Not say " all people are in tombs " because those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 are considered as: destroyed - Psalms 92:7; Acts 3:23

Those dead people are Not deemed worthy of a resurrection to either spirit life in heaven for some - Daniel 7:18, or resurrected back to future healthy physical life on earth.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........ and Does Not say 'was' a resurrection.
Those of Revelation 20:6 have a first or earlier resurrection being called to heaven to rule with Jesus for 1,000 years over earth, over those of Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29

At the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - Jesus will ' bring people ' (living people on earth) bring through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14
The living people on earth do Not need to be brought ' from heaven ' but remain alive right here on earth to be part of Jesus millennium-long day of governing over earth. Psalms 72:8

Then, those in the God's memory in the graves or tombs on earth can have a healthy physical resurrection on earth. That will include King David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
Remember No one who died before Jesus is called to heaven - John 3:13; Matthew 11:11
Also, those of Hebrews chapter 11 will have a healthy physical resurrection on earth during Jesus' millennial reign over earth.
They, like David, can become ' princes ' on earth - Psalms 45:16; Isaiah 32:1; Ezekiel 34:24

I believe you are in error on this because Jesus rules on earth for a thousand years and the first resurrection is with Him. There is nothing in Rev 20:6 about Heaven.

I believe there is nothing in this passage about Jesus bringing people. Here is where it says He is coming from: I Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, It then makes sense that He is bringing people from where He is coming from.

I believe those who are going into the Kingdom of God as already living on earth will not remain on earth but will be raptured into the clouds. Anyone remaining on earth will either be subsumed into Hell, burned in fire or miss out on receiving a new eternal body and remain temporal.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe you are in error on this because Jesus rules on earth for a thousand years and the first resurrection is with Him. There is nothing in Rev 20:6 about Heaven.
I believe there is nothing in this passage about Jesus bringing people. Here is where it says He is coming from: I Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, It then makes sense that He is bringing people from where He is coming from.
I believe those who are going into the Kingdom of God as already living on earth will not remain on earth but will be raptured into the clouds. Anyone remaining on earth will either be subsumed into Hell, burned in fire or miss out on receiving a new eternal body and remain temporal.

Didn't Jesus say at John 14:19 that the world would behold him No more ?
Where is Jesus' throne ( governing seat of rulership ) located but in heaven according to Revelation 3:21
Jesus ' spiritual brothers ' will be resurrected to heaven 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16. They are also Jesus' brothers of Matthew 25:40. The sheep are Not the brothers.
The brothers inherit the kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50-53

Who remains on earth according to Proverbs 2:21-22 ?____________

To which hell are you referring? The permanent non-biblical hell of forever burning, or the Bible's hell or grave where the dead sleep in death ?
According to the old Hebrew Scriptures death is likened to sleep -> Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
That is also why Jesus likened death to sleep at John 11:11-14

If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Even the word cemetery means: sleeping place.

Does the Bible's hell end according to Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ', then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
Jesus destroys Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' if a fitting term for: destruction
ALL the wicked will be destroyed forever ( Not tortured forever ) according to Psalms 92:7

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The decline of religion doesn't necessarily mean that more people are actively rejecting religion. When I think I can have a polite conversation with others (in person) about religion I find that many of them (even most that identify as being Christian) are extremely ignorant of the topic, seldom if ever go to church, and don't seem to have much interest in religion, period. What passes for culture in America has become highly materialistic, self-centered, and shallow. I think the average American's knowledge of their favorite celebrities far outweighs their knowledge of history, current events, and religion put together. Maybe I'm just a pessimist but I don't think the factors driving the decline in religion in the US are going to lead us somewhere we want to be.

Seems to me ^ above ^ you describe religious people as drying up spiritually.
That is what Scripture is making reference at Revelation 16:12. The river water was dried up by diverting the water before ancient Babylon was destroyed.
So, the waters ( many people ) - Revelation 17:1; Revelation 17:15; Isaiah 57:20 - dry up spiritually before the political surprisingly turns on the religious world.
The decline in religion is going to lead us to ' house ' cleaning.
As a ' new broom ' sweeps clean, spiritual house cleaning begins with the religious ' house ' of God - 1 Peter 4:17
Christendom ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only ) will be the first religious ' house ' to be swept clean because she claims to follow Christ, but she has run afoul playing false to God and His Word.

There is No need for you to feel pessimistic because Jesus is that ' new broom ' - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:11; Revelation 19:15 - and Jesus will rid the earth of the wicked before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of good will. We all still have the opportunity to be part of the upright people of Matthew 25:31-33; Matthew 25:37

 

[Muffled]

Didn't Jesus say at John 14:19 that the world would behold him No more ?
Where is Jesus' throne ( governing seat of rulership ) located but in heaven according to Revelation 3:21
Jesus ' spiritual brothers ' will be resurrected to heaven 1 Thessalonians 4:13-16. They are also Jesus' brothers of Matthew 25:40. The sheep are Not the brothers.
The brothers inherit the kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50-53

Who remains on earth according to Proverbs 2:21-22 ?____________

To which hell are you referring? The permanent non-biblical hell of forever burning, or the Bible's hell or grave where the dead sleep in death ?
According to the old Hebrew Scriptures death is likened to sleep -> Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
That is also why Jesus likened death to sleep at John 11:11-14

If biblical hell was a permanent place Jesus would still be in hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
Even the word cemetery means: sleeping place.

Does the Bible's hell end according to Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ', then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
Jesus destroys Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Satan ends up in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
So, ' second death ' if a fitting term for: destruction
ALL the wicked will be destroyed forever ( Not tortured forever ) according to Psalms 92:7

I believe your statement is out of context.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world beholds me no more; but ye behold me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Jesus is speaking of the day when the Paraclete is given not the day of His return.

I believe this is incorrect because the New Jerusalem is in the clouds where people will be raptured to and the New Jerusalem will descend to earth.

I believe you know a lot of scripture but you do not know God. He would set you straight.