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Religious bigotry is not part of Shinto.

Spiderman

Veteran Member
That said, I believe Japan was on the wrong side of world war 2, but not much worse than Europeans colonizing much of the world.

Japan didn't conquer as many countries as Islam conquered with the sword.

I do confess that crimes of the Japanese during world war 2 were heinous.

I just don't think it had anything to do with Shinto Doctrine or the ancient traditions of loving and enshrining Kami, which is the essence of Shinto.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Japan didn't conquer as many countries as Islam conquered with the sword.

Yep. Not sword. But suicide bombing was invented by them, and the world learned about it from them. Again, this is using your own standards. So they are most violent and psychopathic, using your own words.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Oh they absolutely did. And this is using your own standard.

B because they invented suicide terrorism, Shintoism is the most dangerous, psychopathic theology in history.
People that claimed to be Shinto adherents used Kamikaze to target military targets. That doesn't mean the Religion invented it or supports it.

I already said Japan was on the wrong side of that war, and that was called "State Shinto" which was a totally new branch of Shinto , which didn't exist among the original Shinto adherents.

There is nothing in the Religion of Shinto that tells people to do that. The Religion of Shinto is basically Dogmaless, Scriptureless, and is about loving and enshrining Kami, almsgiving, and being good to others, as well as discipline, not being selfish, and seeking wisdom.

Also, a kamikaze attack isn't nearly as cruel as cutting off hands and feet like Muhammad did.

I haven't seen evidence that the first Shinto adherents had any Religious motives for torturing and killing people.

The first Muslims did, and it is in the Quran and Hadiths.

Torturing and killing people is part of Islam because it is in the Quran and Hadiths. Torturing and killing people is not part of Shinto.

I already know some people who practice Shinto tortured and killed people. But nothing in the Religion commands people to do that.

Also, repeatedly Islam judges and condemns non Muslims, Polytheists, and Christians, and unbelievers in the Quran. Shinto does not condemn people who don't follow Shinto.

Islam threatens nonMuslims with torture in the next life. Shinto does not!

So, once again, you lost the debate! :)
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I color or Bolden my posts so you know the important stuff and don't have to read the full article.

People have done heinous crimes in the name of Shinto. Some Shinto adherents and leaders were bigots too.

However, the Religion of Shinto has no inerrant divinely inspired text that can be used to justify those crimes. The Bible and Quran on the other hand, do indeed justify heinous crimes, bigotry, calls to violence, and genocide.

This is why I cannot be a Christian , Muslim, or follow most Abrahamic faiths. To be a Christian, Muslim, or most of those sects, I have to believe those Scriptures (sacred texts) are without error , and inspired by God, or I'm declared a heretic.

The Bible and Quran also speak of tossing people into a lake of fire or torturing them after their death.

The difference between violent Abrahamic Religious people and Regimes, and violent Shinto regimes, is violent adherents to Shinto are not receiving messages from a sacred text that is without error, telling them it's okay to kill, judge, and condemn.

The Bible and Quran has caused billions of people to believe that people are tortured after their death for being unbelievers, Idolaters, or certain sins.

That is found in those inerrant words of God. It has nothing to do with Shinto.

There is no bigotry in Shinto that I am aware of. The Bible and Quran speak of a wrathfull God who burns cities, commands genocides, calls people to "kill the Polytheists wherever you find them", tosses people into a lake of fire, and the gruesome amputation of limbs and tortures found in the Quran, simply makes me ill, because regimes have done that stuff in my lifetime, and their Holy book can be used to justify it. :(

Many Shinto adherents committed heinous crimes, but I will let you know, not all Kami are good. There are bloodthirsty mischievous malevolent Kami that can inspire people to do bad.


But in Shinto there is also a tradition that bad Kami can become your friend and do good and change. And I think that is just beautiful. :)
View attachment 56874

But Shinto never commands anyone to kill, judge, condemn, or be a bigot. The original Shinto shrines were blessed trees View attachment 56884 and Shinto followers found Kami in nature, woodlands, mountains, caves, rivers, bodies of water, islands, and sacred places.

Shinto later had a practice of building homes, Hondens, (rooms and structures closed to the public , for the enshrined Kami to dwell)

)View attachment 56881 View attachment 56883View attachment 56882






Kamidana cupboards View attachment 56875 View attachment 56876 for Kami to dwell and be loved and blessed. Then the Kami return the love and blessings. Kami grow, evolve, heal, and transform into greater Kami through our prayers, offerings, sacrifices, and blessings. :innocent:

View attachment 56880


"Shinto ("the way of the Kami") is the name of the formal state religion of Japan that was first used in the 6th century C.E., although the roots of the religion go back to at least the 6th century B.C.E. Shinto has no founder, no official sacred texts, and no formalized system of doctrine. Shinto has been formative in developing uniquely Japanese attitudes and sensitivities, creating a distinct Japanese consciousness. Belief in kami—sacred or divine beings, although also understood to be spiritual essences—is one of the foundations of Shinto.

View attachment 56877View attachment 56879

Shinto understands that the kami not only exist as spiritual beings, but also in nature; they are within mountains, trees, rivers, and even geographical regions. In this sense, the kami are not like the all-powerful divine beings found in Western religion, but the abstract creative forces in nature. Related to the kami is the understanding that the Shinto followers are supposed to live in harmony and peaceful coexistence with both nature and other human beings. This has enabled Shinto to exist in harmony with other religious traditions
Shinto Origins, Shinto History, Shinto Beliefs


"At the core of Shinto are beliefs in the mysterious creating and harmonizing power (musubi) of kami and in the truthful way (makoto) of kami. The nature of kami cannot be fully explained in words, because kami transcends the cognitive faculty of man.

Today, parishioners of a shrine believe in their tutelary kami as the source of human life and existence. Each kami has a divine personality and responds to truthful prayers.

Truthful way or will (makoto) of kami is revealed to people and guides them to live in accordance with it. In traditional Japanese thought, truth manifests itself in empirical existence and undergoes transformation in infinite varieties in time and space. In Shinto , good deities are said to cooperate with one another, and life lived in accordance with a kami's will, is believed to produce a mystical power that gains the protection, cooperation, and approval of all the particular kami.

A common Shinto saying is that "man is kami's child." First, this means that a person was given his life by kami and that his nature is therefore sacred. In actuality, however, this divine nature is seldom revealed in man, which gives rise to the need for purification an individual must revere the basic human rights of everyone as well as his own.

Shinto is described as a religion of tsunagari ("continuity or community"). The Japanese, while recognizing each man as an individual personality, do not take him as a solitary being separated from others. On the contrary, he is regarded as the bearer of a long, continuous history that comes down from his ancestors and continues in his descendants. Shinto adherents are called to invoke their ancestors, love them, pray for them, and bless them.

From the viewpoint of finite individuals, Shintoists also stress naka-ima ("middle present"), which repeatedly appears in the Imperial edicts of the 8th century. According to this point of view, the present moment is the very center in the middle of all conceivable times. In order to participate directly in the eternal development of the world, it is required of Shintoists to live fully each moment of life, making it as worthy as possible.

The General Principles of Shinto Life proclaimed by the Association of Shinto Shrines in 1956 has the following article: "In accordance with the Emperor's will, let us be harmonious and peaceful, and pray for the nation's development as well as the world's co-prosperity."

Shinto Beliefs - ReligionFacts


This is not a blog but a debate. Is the violence that Shinto adherents committed in the name of Shinto, intrinsic to the nature and essence of Shinto?

If so, how?


Keep in mind, Shinto existed long before Jesus Christ, it just wasn't called Shinto.

The problem is you dont have knowledge in Jesus, Christ, Bible, Quran or Shintoism. In fact, you are absolutely clueless.

You are speaking of punishing in the after life right in order to repeatedly, every single day, trying to spread your anger and hatred around the world to demonise billions of human beings? Well, your Shintoism speaks of murdering whole sets of people in real life all the time. Suicide is venerated. Ze committed suicide and that is venerated. Sagaraka/Otukini was venerated and enshrined divine because Mothowori committed suicide. Yakidzu was named after all the rulers were just murdered. Kampfaeri poem speaks of all of them singing and then killing themselves. Tsubura killed his intended target prince and then what did he do? He killed himself by cutting his own head off. That is suicide terrorism. The entire beginning of the land of the sun begins with murder of the serpent. I am not picking these things from some cut and paste mate. If you know your own theology, you know where this is coming from. So this is the birth of suicide. One suicide after another. This is the birth of suicide terrorism and murder, plunder, mass murder. Kami Kaze were named after the Kami, your pantheon of Gods.

So using your own method of scholarship and analysis, I can easily say that this kind of teaching is the core of suicide terrorism that plagued many parts of the world. The LTTE killed 180k people. Of course since you aim to demonise billions and the LTTE is not your concern and would be detrimental to your aim you would not care about them.

This is not how scholarship is done everyone, but this is just using this google cut and paste scholars own standards. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
People that claimed to be Shinto adherents used Kamikaze to target military targets. That doesn't mean the Religion invented it or supports it.

I already said Japan was on the wrong side of that war, and that was called "State Shinto" which was a totally new branch of Shinto , which didn't exist among the original Shinto adherents.

There is nothing in the Religion of Shinto that tells people to do that. The Religion of Shinto is basically Dogmaless, Scriptureless, and is about loving and enshrining Kami, almsgiving, and being good to others, as well as discipline, not being selfish, and seeking wisdom.

Also, a kamikaze attack isn't nearly as cruel as cutting off hands and feet like Muhammad did.

I haven't seen evidence that the first Shinto adherents had any Religious motives for torturing and killing people.

The first Muslims did, and it is in the Quran and Hadiths.

Torturing and killing people is part of Islam because it is in the Quran and Hadiths. Torturing and killing people is not part of Shinto.

I already know some people who practice Shinto tortured and killed people. But nothing in the Religion commands people to do that.

Also, repeatedly Islam judges and condemns non Muslims, Polytheists, and Christians, and unbelievers in the Quran. Shinto does not condemn people who don't follow Shinto.

Islam threatens nonMuslims with torture in the next life. Shinto does not!

So, once again, you lost the debate! :)

Shintoism is a murderous, suicidal, terrorist building, theology, using your own standards. ;) You can harp on about other religions every single day, but its just that you dont know about Shintoism or any other theology while you pretend.

Its psychopathic really. Suicide murder. Suicide terrorism. Born out of Shintoism.

**Using your own standards.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I just don't think it had anything to do with Shinto Doctrine or the ancient traditions of loving and enshrining Kami, which is the essence of Shinto.

You are wrong. Suicide terrorism is built into Shintoism. Also incest, marrying sisters, half sisters, half mothers, sometimes even two or three sisters. INcest galore. And its core to Shintoism. Sister and wife are interchangeable terms.

Three deities were born out of nowhere on earth, which means they are contingent upon earth. This is purely "using your own methodology of demonising religion". Nothing more, nothing less.

Shintoism is psychopathic which the same word you used. ;) This is the birth of suicide terrorism. The foundation of genocide and murder. Theology and foundation based on murder and suicide terrorism venerated and elevated to Godly levels.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Shintoism is a murderous, suicidal, terrorist building, theology, using your own standards. ;) You can harp on about other religions every single day, but its just that you dont know about Shintoism or any other theology while you pretend.

Its psychopathic really. Suicide murder. Suicide terrorism. Born out of Shintoism.

**Using your own standards.

Shinto existed thousands of years before the Kamikaze. Shinto is belief in the Kami (Spirits), enshrining them, and loving them.

You speak of State Shinto, which is something many Shinto adherents don't approve of. State Shinto is where the government takes over and controls people. Yes, I don't agree with state Shinto.

Can you name one Shinto Doctrine that is dangerous? I can give you many Quranic verses calling people to violence.

Can you find a text that Shinto adherents are required to follow as inerrant, that calls people to be violent?

Are you prepared to keep losing in your attempts to find fault with Shinto Doctrine and Theology? :)

Please tell me, what do you find dangerous about "belief in Kami, enshrine them, bless them, love my neighbor, almsgiving, sacrifice, forgiving others, offer up suffering, fasting, avoiding pride, lust, anger , covetousness, envy, laziness, gluttony, and selfishness"?

That is my Religion along with following my conscience.

Can you find fault with it? Please share! :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
You are wrong. Suicide terrorism is built into Shintoism. Also incest, marrying sisters, half sisters, half mothers, sometimes even two or three sisters. INcest galore. And its core to Shintoism. Sister and wife are interchangeable terms.

Three deities were born out of nowhere on earth, which means they are contingent upon earth. This is purely "using your own methodology of demonising religion". Nothing more, nothing less.

Shintoism is psychopathic which the same word you used. ;) This is the birth of suicide terrorism. The foundation of genocide and murder. Theology and foundation based on murder and suicide terrorism venerated and elevated to Godly levels.
No.

Shinto has one Doctrine, belief in Kami.

Im not commanded to commit incest or violence in Shinto. You lose. :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
You are wrong. Suicide terrorism is built into Shintoism. Also incest, marrying sisters, half sisters, half mothers, sometimes even two or three sisters. INcest galore. And its core to Shintoism. Sister and wife are interchangeable terms.

Three deities were born out of nowhere on earth, which means they are contingent upon earth. This is purely "using your own methodology of demonising religion". Nothing more, nothing less.

Shintoism is psychopathic which the same word you used. ;) This is the birth of suicide terrorism. The foundation of genocide and murder. Theology and foundation based on murder and suicide terrorism venerated and elevated to Godly levels.


Find a teaching in Shinto where people are commanded to commit incest. Keep in mind, it has to be a teaching that is in a text that Shinto adherents must follow.

Because the Islamic text that Muslims must follow is loaded with cruelty, hate, calls to violence, and bigotry, which means those behaviors are part of Islam.

Plus Muhammad married a prepubescent girl, and many Muslims continue to do that to this day.

What Shinto adherents have done doesn't make your point. You have to find a text like the Quran in Shinto, which means bad behavior is promoted by the Religion itself.

You have failed to do so.

For you to make your point , you need to find a Divinely inspired Shinto text commanding bad behavior, as the Quran does.

Until you can do so, you lose. :)
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
The problem is you dont have knowledge in Jesus, Christ, Bible, Quran or Shintoism. In fact, you are absolutely clueless.

You are speaking of punishing in the after life right in order to repeatedly, every single day, trying to spread your anger and hatred around the world to demonise billions of human beings? Well, your Shintoism speaks of murdering whole sets of people in real life all the time. Suicide is venerated. Ze committed suicide and that is venerated. Sagaraka/Otukini was venerated and enshrined divine because Mothowori committed suicide. Yakidzu was named after all the rulers were just murdered. Kampfaeri poem speaks of all of them singing and then killing themselves. Tsubura killed his intended target prince and then what did he do? He killed himself by cutting his own head off. That is suicide terrorism. The entire beginning of the land of the sun begins with murder of the serpent. I am not picking these things from some cut and paste mate. If you know your own theology, you know where this is coming from. So this is the birth of suicide. One suicide after another. This is the birth of suicide terrorism and murder, plunder, mass murder. Kami Kaze were named after the Kami, your pantheon of Gods.

So using your own method of scholarship and analysis, I can easily say that this kind of teaching is the core of suicide terrorism that plagued many parts of the world. The LTTE killed 180k people. Of course since you aim to demonise billions and the LTTE is not your concern and would be detrimental to your aim you would not care about them.

This is not how scholarship is done everyone, but this is just using this google cut and paste scholars own standards. Nothing more, nothing less.
Shinto doesn't say God inspired that or that we must believe it.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
The problem is you dont have knowledge in Jesus, Christ, Bible, Quran or Shintoism. In fact, you are absolutely clueless.

You are speaking of punishing in the after life right in order to repeatedly, every single day, trying to spread your anger and hatred around the world to demonise billions of human beings? Well, your Shintoism speaks of murdering whole sets of people in real life all the time. Suicide is venerated. Ze committed suicide and that is venerated. Sagaraka/Otukini was venerated and enshrined divine because Mothowori committed suicide. Yakidzu was named after all the rulers were just murdered. Kampfaeri poem speaks of all of them singing and then killing themselves. Tsubura killed his intended target prince and then what did he do? He killed himself by cutting his own head off. That is suicide terrorism. The entire beginning of the land of the sun begins with murder of the serpent. I am not picking these things from some cut and paste mate. If you know your own theology, you know where this is coming from. So this is the birth of suicide. One suicide after another. This is the birth of suicide terrorism and murder, plunder, mass murder. Kami Kaze were named after the Kami, your pantheon of Gods.

So using your own method of scholarship and analysis, I can easily say that this kind of teaching is the core of suicide terrorism that plagued many parts of the world. The LTTE killed 180k people. Of course since you aim to demonise billions and the LTTE is not your concern and would be detrimental to your aim you would not care about them.

This is not how scholarship is done everyone, but this is just using this google cut and paste scholars own standards. Nothing more, nothing less.

Shinto doesn't say people must follow those teachings. I am Shinto and I sure as hell don't.

Many Shinto adherents were also opposed to state-Shinto as well.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
The problem is you dont have knowledge in Jesus, Christ, Bible, Quran or Shintoism. In fact, you are absolutely clueless.

You are speaking of punishing in the after life right in order to repeatedly, every single day, trying to spread your anger and hatred around the world to demonise billions of human beings? Well, your Shintoism speaks of murdering whole sets of people in real life all the time. Suicide is venerated. Ze committed suicide and that is venerated. Sagaraka/Otukini was venerated and enshrined divine because Mothowori committed suicide. Yakidzu was named after all the rulers were just murdered. Kampfaeri poem speaks of all of them singing and then killing themselves. Tsubura killed his intended target prince and then what did he do? He killed himself by cutting his own head off. That is suicide terrorism. The entire beginning of the land of the sun begins with murder of the serpent. I am not picking these things from some cut and paste mate. If you know your own theology, you know where this is coming from. So this is the birth of suicide. One suicide after another. This is the birth of suicide terrorism and murder, plunder, mass murder. Kami Kaze were named after the Kami, your pantheon of Gods.

So using your own method of scholarship and analysis, I can easily say that this kind of teaching is the core of suicide terrorism that plagued many parts of the world. The LTTE killed 180k people. Of course since you aim to demonise billions and the LTTE is not your concern and would be detrimental to your aim you would not care about them.

This is not how scholarship is done everyone, but this is just using this google cut and paste scholars own standards. Nothing more, nothing less.
You speak repeated falsehood. That isn't Shinto Theology. That is folklore. Shinto doesn't say we have to believe poems and lore or any writings.

To this day, Shinto has consistently declared that you don't have to believe such stories.

You are mistaken.... Again!
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I'm not demonizing billions of people either. I'm telling them to follow their conscience above a violent ancient text.
 

Brinne

Active Member
I think the issue with your argumentation is that you're belittling someone like firedragon's faith while lifting yours up on a pedestal and just giving any critique or criticism a "no true Scotsman" response.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
You speak repeated falsehood. That isn't Shinto Theology. That is folklore. Shinto doesn't say we have to believe poems and lore or any writings.

To this day, Shinto has consistently declared that you don't have to believe such stories.

You are mistaken.... Again!

Lol. Mate. You have not read about anything. You have knowledge about nothing you speak of. You yourself said your methodology is "quick google". ;)

Maybe you learned about Shintoism also with a "quick google".

You have no clue of what you are speaking of. Of course all you know is that you have a dire need to demonise billions of people. Thats born form your inherent hatred. So you will cut and paste, make things up, be as lame as can be as long as in your dream world you are achieving your hatred spreading. ;)

Shintoism is the birth of terrorism and genocide, using your own standards.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Lol. Mate. You have not read about anything. You have knowledge about nothing you speak of. You yourself said your methodology is "quick google". ;)

Maybe you learned about Shintoism also with a "quick google".

You have no clue of what you are speaking of. Of course all you know is that you have a dire need to demonise billions of people. Thats born form your inherent hatred. So you will cut and paste, make things up, be as lame as can be as long as in your dream world you are achieving your hatred spreading. ;)

Shintoism is the birth of terrorism and genocide, using your own standards.
Shinto is loving and enshrining Kami, and gives people liberty to believe what they want to.

I didn't read the Qur'an on Google, I used to have a copy and pray at a mosque and wear a kufi.

My Religion is about mercy, forgiveness, loving others, almsgiving, charity, growing in virtue, growing wiser, growing more mature, praying for guidance, praying for enlightenment, self-discipline, not being proud, lustful, envious, covetouss, lazy, gluttonous, and not being selfish.

That is my Religion. Can you find fault with it?

Shinto doesn't say I have to follow any text or Doctrine.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Shinto is loving and enshrining Kami, and gives people liberty to believe what they want to.

I didn't read the Qur'an on Google, I used to have a copy and pray at a mosque and wear a kufi.

My Religion is about mercy, forgiveness, loving others, almsgiving, charity, growing in virtue, growing wiser, growing more mature, praying for guidance, praying for enlightenment, self-discipline, not being proud, lustful, envious, covetouss, lazy, gluttonous, and not being selfish.

That is my Religion. Can you find fault with it?

Shinto doesn't say I have to follow any text or Doctrine.

Absolutely false.

Using your own method of scholarship, Shintoism is all about suicide, venerating suicide, killing people committing suicide, which is the birth of suicide terrorism. Then incest. Then murder, genocide, at mass levels. Killing killing everywhere. Using your own standards of analysis.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
I think the issue with your argumentation is that you're belittling someone like firedragon's faith while lifting yours up on a pedestal and just giving any critique or criticism a "no true Scotsman" response.
It is not a no true Scotsman approach. I'm simply stating the fact that Shinto gives us the liberty to follow our conscience and doesn't have any text claiming to be the word of God or Kami.

Good people are Shinto and bad people are Shinto adherents. There are good and bad Kami as well.

No bad behaviors are supported by Shinto Doctrine or Scriptures is simply what I'm saying.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Absolutely false.

Using your own method of scholarship, Shintoism is all about suicide, venerating suicide, killing people committing suicide, which is the birth of suicide terrorism. Then incest. Then murder, genocide, at mass levels. Killing killing everywhere. Using your own standards of analysis.
Nope, because you never found a Shinto scripture that supports it.

There are plenty islamic Quranic verses that promote heinous cruel behavior.

Big difference. ;)
 
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