Religious bigotry is not part of Shinto.

[Spiderman]

The head of the Shinto religion is the emperor of Japan. Until recently, he was considered a god. In WWII this head of teh Shinto religion went to war to try to take over a good part of the world. Enough said.

Shinto predates the Imperial dynasty. I practice Shinto as the ancients practiced it, enshrining Kami and finding Kami in sacred places.

I don't follow state Shinto.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Shinto predates the Imperial dynasty. I practice Shinto as the ancients practiced it, enshrining Kami and finding Kami in sacred places.

I don't follow state Shinto.

None of this invalidates what I said.

 

[Spiderman]

Shinto does actually have established hierarchy. Shinto clergy were a prominent force in Japanese imperial politics up until the introduction of Buddhism from Korea; which saw the rise of Shinbutsu-shugo. Buddhism was leveraged by feudal lords as a way to usurp power from rival clans which put their lot behind the traditional Shinto priesthood. This mess devolved into the Sengoku period.

But Shinto very much has a hierarchy and established understanding. You cannot simply plaster whatever you wish on Shinto -- it is highly disrespectful as expressed in the resources I have linked to you.

Priests who dedicate their lives to studying in seminary and administering rights in a sort of 'priestly internship' would disagree with you. It is actually solely the job of a professional priest to enshrine something -- the creation of the Ofuda (an enshrinment talisman) is not something a lay person should do. A lay person should donate the appropriate amount to a reputable jinja or shrine in their area to receive an Ofuda to 'enshrine' a kami. For us in the US that is Shusse Inari.

Their website has a lot of information. I could also recommend a number of books that are great resources for Shinto practice if you so wish.

I follow American Shinto.

I follow Shinto as well in the way it was originally practiced by peaceful Shinto adherents.

Originally there was no Shinto clergy or hierarchy.

I respect and am interested in Shinto tradition, but Shinto has no Dogmas, doctrines, or Scriptures, Magisterium, or catechism saying it is forbidden for me to have a Kamidana, Honden, prayer wall, and make shrines in nature.

I do not have access in Saint Paul to Shinto clergy or Shrine , or I would go there, so I make my own shrines or go to Capitol Hill or the Cathedral.

Shinto doesn't forbid it. Certain adherents might, but Shinto official teachings do not.

 

[Spiderman]

None of this invalidates what I said.

Shinto has no sacred text considered inspired by Kami, telling people to be violent and bigoted.

The Quran and Bible is a different story.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I follow American Shinto.

I follow Shinto as well in the way it was originally practiced by peaceful Shinto adherents.

Originally there was no Shinto clergy or hierarchy.

I respect and am interested in Shinto tradition, but Shinto has no Dogmas, doctrines, or Scriptures, Magisterium, or catechism saying it is forbidden for me to have a Kamidana, Honden, prayer wall, and make shrines in nature.

I do not have access in Saint Paul to Shinto clergy or Shrine , or I would go there, so I make my own shrines or go to Capitol Hill or the Cathedral.

Shinto doesn't forbid it. Certain adherents might, but Shinto official teachings do not.

What it really sounds like you are doing is simply accepting the good things about shinto, and naively rejecting its worse side. I don't see this as any different from, i.e. Christians who say those who killed off entire Jewish villages as "not REAL Christians."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Shinto has no sacred text considered inspired by Kami, telling people to be violent and bigoted.

The Quran and Bible is a different story.

I will say this a third time, and then I'm going to let you go. You do NOT have to have a sacred text in order for a religion to teach values and ethics, including bad ethics.

 

[Brinne]

I follow American Shinto.

I follow Shinto as well in the way it was originally practiced by peaceful Shinto adherents.

Originally there was no Shinto clergy or hierarchy.

I respect and am interested in Shinto tradition, but Shinto has no Dogmas, doctrines, or Scriptures, Magisterium, or catechism saying it is forbidden for me to have a Kamidana, Honden, prayer wall, and make shrines in nature.

I do not have access in Saint Paul to Shinto clergy or Shrine , or I would go there, so I make my own shrines or go to Capitol Hill or the Cathedral.

Shinto doesn't forbid it. Certain adherents might, but Shinto official teachings do not.

There actually was hierarchy; as I've stated. Local priests, previously shamans, were the officiators of ceremonies for centuries before the word 'Shinto' even entered the Japanese lexicon.

You should absolutely respect that. It is, as I've said, very disrespectful to divorce Shinto from its context as articulated by clergy and lay people alike. A kamidana is fine; but again you must receive an Ofuda from a reputable shrine. These shrines mail Ofuda to any location within the US.

I'm not saying this to belittle you or anything. It is just a dangerous trend that westerners appropriate Eastern religions and think they can do anything they wish with them for their own personal reasons. When in reality they have a complex system of hierarchy and established tradition and rituals that should be understood and respected. As well as a cultural and historical context that should be understood and respected.

You wouldn't do the same with say Greek Orthodoxy or Judaism or Hinduism.

 

[Spiderman]

What it really sounds like you are doing is simply accepting the good things about shinto, and naively rejecting its worse side. I don't see this as any different from, i.e. Christians who say those who killed off entire Jewish villages as "not REAL Christians."

Actually, what I'm saying is people should follow their conscience above some violent ancient " sacred" text. Shinto allows me the liberty to do so.

 

[Lain]

Actually, what I'm saying is people should follow their conscience above some violent ancient " sacred" text. Shinto allows me the liberty to do so.

What if the Sacred Scripture is my conscience and I wholly agree with it in all parts? I would also disagree with many of your characterizations of it though so I guess that'd be a difference.

 

[Spiderman]

There actually was hierarchy; as I've stated. Local priests, previously shamans, were the officiators of ceremonies for centuries before the word 'Shinto' even entered the Japanese lexicon.

You should absolutely respect that. It is, as I've said, very disrespectful to divorce Shinto from its context as articulated by clergy and lay people alike. A kamidana is fine; but again you must receive an Ofuda from a reputable shrine. These shrines mail Ofuda to any location within the US.

I'm not saying this to belittle you or anything. It is just a dangerous trend that westerners appropriate Eastern religions and think they can do anything they wish with them for their own personal reasons. When in reality they have a complex system of hierarchy and established tradition and rituals that should be understood and respected. As well as a cultural and historical context that should be understood and respected.

You wouldn't do the same with say Greek Orthodoxy or Judaism or Hinduism.

Ill respect what doesn't go against my conscience. There is no official Shinto teaching that forbids me from enshrining and loving Kami, trying to follow the convictions of my heart, and listen to Kami , and obey them.

I will follow my conscience and what I believe the Kami tell me to do above some far distant Shinto clergymen. If there were a devout Shinto master near by, I could go to and take a vow of obedience to, I probably would, were he/she demonstrating virtue, wisdom, and signs of being more in tune with benevolent Kami than myself.

That simply isn't an option.

But I was in a Cathedral praying for Japan on a day I call Japan day, and I turned to find a Japan pilgrimage brochure. Fond of the coincidence, I grabbed the paper and exited the Cathedral. Immediately I found a circular mirror on the ground.

Circular mirrors are the highest relic in Shinto, because Amaterasu allegedly gave a circular mirror to Emperor Jimmu, and told him to venerate it as if it was her.

It had the same color lining of the circular mirror on my wall at the time that Amaterasu was looking into in a picture. I proceeded to walk to Capitol Hill, Saint Paul, and find a shrine to deceased firemen.

There was a ladder I ascended where I could see my reflection all around. It was a circular mirror monument. Next to it was a gun that sank the first Japanese ship at Hawaii, world war two.

No way that is all by chance or coincidence.

Many coincidences like that happen as signs from the Kami, and I follow them . I follow Shinto as I believe the Kami dictate, and I love Amaterasu Omikami. I also love Jesus and Mary and the Saints.

Shinto doesn't forbid that. I will follow Kami in my life to discover destiny, and I don't feel them telling me to get permission from a hierarchy at this time.

But I am to respect Shinto culture and traditions, provided that it doesn't go against my conscience or the golden rule to do onto others as I would have them do to me, or the will of the Kami as I understand it.

 

[Spiderman]

What if the Sacred Scripture is my conscience and I wholly agree with it in all parts? I would also disagree with many of your characterizations of it though so I guess that'd be a difference.

Well, follow your conscience, but don't hurt people or condemn them to hell is my suggestion.

 

[Brinne]

Ill respect what doesn't go against my conscience. There is no official Shinto teaching that forbids me from enshrining and loving Kami, trying to follow the convictions of my heart, and listen to Kami , and obey them.

I will follow my conscience and what I believe the Kami tell me to do above some far distant Shinto clergymen. If there were a devout Shinto master near by, I could go to and take a vow of obedience to, I probably would, were he/she demonstrating virtue, wisdom, and signs of being more in tune with benevolent Kami than myself.

That simply isn't an option.

But I was in a Cathedral praying for Japan on a day I call Japan day, and I turned to find a Japan pilgrimage brochure. Fond of the coincidence, I grabbed the paper and exited the Cathedral. Immediately I found a circular mirror on the ground.

Circular mirrors are the highest relic in Shinto, because Amaterasu allegedly gave a circular mirror to Emperor Jimmu, and told him to venerate it as if it was her.

It had the same color lining of the circular mirror on my wall at the time that Amaterasu was looking into in a picture. I proceeded to walk to Capitol Hill, Saint Paul, and find a shrine to deceased firemen.

There was a ladder I ascended where I could see my reflection all around. It was a circular mirror monument. Next to it was a gun that sank the first Japanese ship at Hawaii, world war two.

No way that is all by chance or coincidence.

Many coincidences like that happen as signs from the Kami, and I follow them . I follow Shinto as I believe the Kami dictate, and I love Amaterasu Omikami. I also love Jesus and Mary and the Saints.

Shinto doesn't forbid that. I will follow Kami in my life to discover destiny, and I don't feel them telling me to get permission from a hierarchy at this time.

But I am to respect Shinto culture and traditions, provided that it doesn't go against my conscience or the golden rule to do onto others as I would have them do to me, or the will of the Kami as I understand it.

There are Shinto priests in the United States and Japan that you can contact. More than that they have published resources you can consult.

This 'far distant' clergyman you are dismissing has dedicated their entire life to the study of Shinto in seminary and is immersed in the ritual and context of Shintoism. Again, these are the people that should be consulted.

It should be noted that tradition and hierarchy is important in Shintoism -- so much so that particular shrines only allow certain lineages to serve as the administering kannushi of the complex. Shinto is not a faith which is open to outside reform or change. If you desire a more open path there are plenty of less restrictive forms of reconstructed Paganism and Wicca.

Shinto masters don't exist, there are kannushi but that's really it. There are masters of onmyōdō but that is a patently closed tradition of Japanese traditional mysticism and magic.

 

[Spiderman]

There are Shinto priests in the United States and Japan that you can contact. More than that they have published resources you can consult.

This 'far distant' clergyman you are dismissing has dedicated their entire life to the study of Shinto in seminary and is immersed in the ritual and context of Shintoism. Again, these are the people that should be consulted.

It should be noted that tradition and hierarchy is important in Shintoism -- so much so that particular shrines only allow certain lineages to serve as the administering kannushi of the complex. Shinto is not a faith which is open to outside reform or change. If you desire a more open path there are plenty of less restrictive forms of reconstructed Paganism and Wicca.

Shinto masters don't exist, there are kannushi but that's really it. There are masters of onmyōdō but that is a patently closed tradition of Japanese traditional mysticism and magic.

I will follow American Shinto as I believe Amaterasu Omikami and the Kami in my life convict my heart to follow it .

I see no evidence that in 700 BC , the Shinto adherents declared it to be official teachings that people must obey a hierarchy.

The original Shinto Shrines were blessed sacred trees and places in nature. I see no evidence that the essence and nature of Shinto at that time required certification for Shrines and rules.

I understand that it wasn't called Shinto at that time, but it still was Shinto.

The only Doctrine of Shinto is belief in Kami, and since Amaterasu contacted me, with other Kami, I shall be devoted to them without reserve, night and day.

Seeking their will , and I will follow it as they dictate.

The original Shinto adherents did not have a seminary to my knowledge.

By all means, I will try to contact Shinto clergy in my city, if they exist, or write letters to them in other states, but they do not speak infallibly about what the Kami want for me.

I have a personal relationship with Amaterasu and the Kami, and they leave me many signs, wonders, and inspirations, and impressions.

There is no official Shinto teaching authority or magisterium that says people need seminary to be a Shaman, or for that matter, to be a priest in their own rite.

I follow American Shinto or Twin Cities Shinto, and the Capitol Hill Queens.

Shinto allows other religions. It's why most Shinto adherents are also Buddhist.

 

[Brinne]

I will follow American Shinto as I believe Amaterasu Omikami and the Kami in my life convict my heart to follow it .

I see no evidence that in 700 BC , the Shinto adherents declared it to be official teachings that people must obey a hierarchy.

The original Shinto Shrines were blessed sacred trees and places in nature. I see no evidence that the essence and nature of Shinto at that time required certification for Shrines and rules.

I understand that it wasn't called Shinto at that time, but it still was Shinto.

The only Doctrine of Shinto is belief in Kami, and since Amaterasu contacted me, with other Kami, I shall be devoted to them without reserve, night and day.

Seeking their will , and I will follow it as they dictate.

The original Shinto adherents did not have a seminary to my knowledge.

By all means, I will try to contact Shinto clergy in my city, if they exist, or write letters to them in other states, but they do not speak infallibly about what the Kami want for me.

I have a personal relationship with Amaterasu and the Kami, and they leave me many signs, wonders, and inspirations, and impressions.

There is no official Shinto teaching authority or magisterium that says people need seminary to be a Shaman, or for that matter, to be a priest in their own rite.

I follow American Shinto or Twin Cities Shinto, and the Capitol Hill Queens.

Shinto allows other religions. It's why most Shinto adherents are also Buddhist.

Sorry that is just an absolute lie. You definitely have to attend seminary at Kokugakuin (either in Tokyo or Ise) to receive licensure. Just as you would to become a Catholic priest. This is how its been for thousands upon thousands of years. Previous to that, priesthood was passed through hereditary lineage. It was always like this.

That's not even specifically a Shinto thing either; a lot of animistic beliefs have shamanistic / priestly castes which are hereditary. You cannot just claim to be this without proper education or initiation. This means, creation of Ofuda, 'enshrinement', and creation of new Jinja are something you cannot do until receiving licensure.

Shinto's allowing of other religions is a very complicated historical matter. It was actually in direct opposition to Buddhism when it first arrived. However political pressure and desire to emulate the Chinese dynastic structure caused syncretization to occur in 'Shinbutsu-shugo' -- this was later reversed in that Bodhisattva were understood as Kami as opposed to vice versa. It was a process that happened over centuries.

It is incredibly insensitive to the tradition to mix whatever you chose into it; as it is to declare yourself capable of doing the job of an ordained kannushi.

You wouldn't declare yourself able to supersede a Rabbi or a Priest's duties, so please do not do the same for Shinto. It is an open religion but it must be respected. It is not a Westerner's playground to do as they please.

 

[firedragon]

Nope!

Shinto doesn't command any of that. The Quran commands exactly what I said it does. Islam was founded by a mass murderer , pedophile, and terrorist.

No one knows who founded Shinto, so no one can use bad behavior and justify it based off of how the founder lived.

And you could not find one Shinto Scripture or Doctrine that encourages hurting other people. So you lose.

Incest is practiced in every nation and by people of every Religion. It isn't part of the Religion unless there are Scriptures or Doctrines promoting it.

Besides, I don't follow Japanese culture or folklore. My Religion is about loving Kami.

You already love Kami anyway. Kami means God in Japanese.

Even Japanese Christians call God Kami.

Allah is a creator and a Spirit being. That means he is Kami.

My Religion is about loving and enshrining Kami, and loving others. Shinto does not tell adherents they have to believe any Theology or follow any other Doctrines or lore.

So, incest , violence, mutilations, child-brides, terrorism, and hatred, is not part of the branch of Shinto I follow. It is part of Islam, because it is in the life of the founder of Islam , or the Quran and Hadiths.

In your own standards, Shintoism is the most psychopathic religion that taught suicide terrorism directly. Kill and commit suicide. What ever you say does not negate that. You’re in denial. Suicide, genocide, incest, polygyny marrying several sisters, killing people just to be proud. That’s the foundation of your religion.

Using your own standards.

 

[Spiderman]

Sorry that is just an absolute lie. You definitely have to attend seminary at Kokugakuin (either in Tokyo or Ise) to receive licensure. Just as you would to become a Catholic priest. This is how its been for thousands upon thousands of years. Previous to that, priesthood was passed through hereditary lineage. It was always like this.

That's not even specifically a Shinto thing either; a lot of animistic beliefs have shamanistic / priestly castes which are hereditary. You cannot just claim to be this without proper education or initiation. This means, creation of Ofuda, 'enshrinement', and creation of new Jinja are something you cannot do until receiving licensure.

Shinto's allowing of other religions is a very complicated historical matter. It was actually in direct opposition to Buddhism when it first arrived. However political pressure and desire to emulate the Chinese dynastic structure caused syncretization to occur in 'Shinbutsu-shugo' -- this was later reversed in that Bodhisattva were understood as Kami as opposed to vice versa. It was a process that happened over centuries.

It is incredibly insensitive to the tradition to mix whatever you chose into it; as it is to declare yourself capable of doing the job of an ordained kannushi.

You wouldn't declare yourself able to supersede a Rabbi or a Priest's duties, so please do not do the same for Shinto. It is an open religion but it must be respected. It is not a Westerner's playground to do as they please.

I was talking about Shinto as it was originally practiced before 700 BC when the original shrines were blessed sacred trees.

And no, Shinto has no other infallible Doctrines other than belief in Kami. I can follow my heart and conscience, and no Divinely inspired Shinto text commands me to do otherwise.

Some Shinto sects require seminary and priesthood for clergy. I'm speaking of Shinto back how it was originally practiced.

Some of the Kami I pray to may consider me a type of clergy , because I pray to Kami no one else prays to. It's possible.

I will follow my heart and conscience regarding what the Kami will for me to do.

There is no infallible magisterial teaching authority of Shinto.

Kami have the authority to create a Shaman. A seminary education doesn't necessarily mean a person has a personal relationship with Kami .

Besides, I follow Shinto as the Kami reveal to me. You are bringing up certain sects of Shinto.

The nature and essence of Shinto as it was originally practiced is what I'm looking for mainly.

"In contrast to many monotheistic religions, there are no absolutes in Shinto. There is no absolute right and wrong, and nobody is perfect."
Shinto

Shinto gives me the liberty to follow my conscience and practice my faith as Kami dictate to me.

 

[Spiderman]

In your own standards, Shintoism is the most psychopathic religion that taught suicide terrorism directly. Kill and commit suicide. What ever you say does not negate that. You’re in denial. Suicide, genocide, incest, polygyny marrying several sisters, killing people just to be proud. That’s the foundation of your religion.

Using your own standards.

No, why do you keep failing over and over and over again??

By my standards you would show an official Shinto infallible Doctrine or Divinely inspired text supporting those bad behaviors.

I did so for Islam. You failed to do so for Shinto. Any particular reason why you keep insisting on speaking falsehood?

Go use my standards. I'm waiting....

Waiting....

You can't do it. You lose!

 

[Brinne]

I was talking about Shinto as it was originally practiced before 700 BC when the original shrines were blessed sacred trees.

And no, Shinto has no other infallible Doctrines other than belief in Kami. I can follow my heart and conscience, and no Divinely inspired Shinto text commands me to do otherwise.

Some Shinto sects require seminary and priesthood for clergy. I'm speaking of Shinto back how it was originally practiced.

Some of the Kami I pray to may consider me a type of clergy , because I pray to Kami no one else prays to. It's possible.

I will follow my heart and conscience regarding what the Kami will for me to do.

There is no infallible magisterial teaching authority of Shinto.

Kami have the authority to create a Shaman. A seminary education doesn't necessarily mean a person has a personal relationship with Kami .

Besides, I follow Shinto as the Kami reveal to me. You are bringing up certain sects of Shinto.

The nature and essence of Shinto as it was originally practiced is what I'm looking for mainly.

"In contrast to many monotheistic religions, there are no absolutes in Shinto. There is no absolute right and wrong, and nobody is perfect."
Shinto

Shinto gives me the liberty to follow my conscience and practice my faith as Kami dictate to me.

Yes, again there were shamans and those who had hereditary titles for centuries. Look at the religion of the Jomon people, even the modern day Ainu beliefs (which are interwoven with Shinto) have hereditary shamans. This is a commonly observed structure in animistic worship. The Shinto you're looking for never existed.

Literally every sect of Shinto requires seminarian education to become a kannushi. Even ko-shinto which is arguably the most loosely organized and closest to pre-Jinja Shinto. You will not find a sect from Konkokyo to Ko-Shinto to Izumo faith to Ise faith to Inari faith -- all require seminarian training. I'm saying this as someone who practiced Shinto for a year at the discretion of two kannushi and my native Japanese aunt. It is not your playground to deface.

You have every right to invent your own religion but you cannot claim it is "Shinto." You can every practice Shinto alongside another faith but you cannot intermingle something like Christian beliefs and Shintoism.

Again -- please do your research. I have a great reading list and resources open to you which I will gladly continue to link.

 

[Spiderman]

Yes, again there were shamans and those who had hereditary titles for centuries. Look at the religion of the Jomon people, even the modern day Ainu beliefs (which are interwoven with Shinto) have hereditary shamans. This is a commonly observed structure in animistic worship. The Shinto you're looking for never existed.

Literally every sect of Shinto requires seminarian education to become a kannushi. Even ko-shinto which is arguably the most loosely organized and closest to pre-Jinja Shinto. You will not find a sect from Konkokyo to Ko-Shinto to Izumo faith to Ise faith to Inari faith -- all require seminarian training. I'm saying this as someone who practiced Shinto for a year at the discretion of two kannushi and my native Japanese aunt. It is not your playground to deface.

You have every right to invent your own religion but you cannot claim it is "Shinto." You can every practice Shinto alongside another faith but you cannot intermingle something like Christian beliefs and Shintoism.

Again -- please do your research. I have a great reading list and resources open to you which I will gladly continue to link.

I already told you, I follow American Shinto.

I follow Shinto as the Kami tell me to.

And Jesus and Mary are Kami. Kami means God or Spirit. I follow my heart and conscience, and ask God and Kami to guide it and inspire it and make me obedient.

Shinto does not have infallible Doctrines other than belief in Kami , no infallible teaching authority like the Catholic magisterium, no absolutes that forbid me from doing what I do.

That is a fact!

 

[Clara Tea]

Most Abrahamic sects , in fact every Christian and Muslim i met, declare their sacred text to be the word of God, inspired, or without error.

I think some Japanese folklore is ridiculous, and don't believe it is all inspired by Kami.

Shinto gives me, and everyone, the liberty to love, bless, and enshrine Kami, and practice Shinto, in a peaceful loving way, without having to believe in folklore.

It's what I've been repeatedly trying to get across to @firedragon in vain. He thinks some how the behaviors of Emperor Jimmu need to be defended. I don't even know if the stories about Jimmu are true.

Shinto is not founded by Jimmu, neither does Shinto declare Jimmu to be a messenger that I must obey, and Shinto existed before the Imperial dynasty.

The belief that the Emperor descended from Amaterasu Omikami, the Sun Goddess, is actually not a binding, infallible Doctrine, that you are required to believe , to be in good standing with Shinto Dogma/Religion.

I will say, it is the oldest surviving dynasty on earth, which could be a sign of Divine providence, but Shinto is not telling anyone they are required to believe in that tradition.

In the Jewish religion, they are proud to say "my son the doctor." Apparently, in this religion, they say "my doctor, the sun."

Emperor Hirohito was said to descend directly from the sun. I often wonder if he was really the man of peace that he portrayed, or if he could have stopped Japanese involvement in WW II. Many people looked up to him.