Religious bigotry is not part of Shinto.

[Spiderman]

Absolutely false.

Using your own method of scholarship, Shintoism is all about suicide, venerating suicide, killing people committing suicide, which is the birth of suicide terrorism. Then incest. Then murder, genocide, at mass levels. Killing killing everywhere. Using your own standards of analysis.

But you aren't using my method of scholarship.

If you were using my method of scholarship, you would point out a Shinto inerrant Scripture that commands heinous atrocities.

You can't do it.

I can use the Hadiths and Quran to show plenty verses that promote sadistic cruelty, amputations of limbs, crucifixion, boiling water poured on people, burnings, and stonings.

It's in your sacred text that Islam commands Muslims to follow.

Use my method and find me verses from an inerrant inspired Shinto text where people are commanded to commit heinous atrocities, and I will bash Shinto.

Also, Kamikaze pilots come from state-Shinto, which is a branch myself and many Shinto adherents are against.

 

[Spiderman]

But it's good to have conversations like this.

Not all Kami are good. I must reject violence and heinous crimes in all their forms , and reject Japanese culture that encouraged bad behavior.

I must also make sure my house is clean before I tell someone to clean theirs.

If someone cherishes Islam I should respect that, but I will inform people of calls to violence and bigotry in any text.

If a person is a Muslim or Christian, they should reject those verses in the Bible and Quran that are hateful or calls to violence and oppression.

That is all I'm saying.

 

[firedragon]

Nope, because you never found a Shinto scripture that supports it.

Haha. Thats the level of your knowledge mate. Are you telling you have never read anything? Is not that pretty shameful to pretend like a scholar with your google scholarship and to have not read any Shinto material?

 

[Spiderman]

Haha. Thats the level of your knowledge mate. Are you telling you have never read anything? Is not that pretty shameful to pretend like a scholar with your google scholarship and to have not read any Shinto material?

I have studied Shinto material.

It is a simple Religion of loving, blessing, and enshrining Kami.

I follow my conscience as well. Shinto gives me that liberty.

Most of the Religious material I study is of Saintly people who were Buddhist, Spiritualist, Catholic, Christian, humble, charitable, people of almsgiving, sacrifice, charity, and prayer.

Shinto doesn't forbid that.

Neither have you pointed out one harmful Shinto Dogma or Scripture.

I never pretended I was a scholar. You keep saying that, and it isn't wise for you to keep saying it.

It also isn't wise of you to say I don't read anything. I have quoted the Quran and Hadiths to you.

You can't provide one single toxic Shinto Doctrine or Scripture.

I win the debate. Have a good night!

 

[firedragon]

I have studied Shinto material.

No you have not.

 

[Clara Tea]

I color or Bolden my posts so you know the important stuff and don't have to read the full article.

People have done heinous crimes in the name of Shinto. Some Shinto adherents and leaders were bigots too.

However, the Religion of Shinto has no inerrant divinely inspired text that can be used to justify those crimes. The Bible and Quran on the other hand, do indeed justify heinous crimes, bigotry, calls to violence, and genocide.

This is why I cannot be a Christian , Muslim, or follow most Abrahamic faiths. To be a Christian, Muslim, or most of those sects, I have to believe those Scriptures (sacred texts) are without error , and inspired by God, or I'm declared a heretic.

The Bible and Quran also speak of tossing people into a lake of fire or torturing them after their death.

The difference between violent Abrahamic Religious people and Regimes, and violent Shinto regimes, is violent adherents to Shinto are not receiving messages from a sacred text that is without error, telling them it's okay to kill, judge, and condemn.

The Bible and Quran has caused billions of people to believe that people are tortured after their death for being unbelievers, Idolaters, or certain sins.

That is found in those inerrant words of God. It has nothing to do with Shinto.

There is no bigotry in Shinto that I am aware of. The Bible and Quran speak of a wrathfull God who burns cities, commands genocides, calls people to "kill the Polytheists wherever you find them", tosses people into a lake of fire, and the gruesome amputation of limbs and tortures found in the Quran, simply makes me ill, because regimes have done that stuff in my lifetime, and their Holy book can be used to justify it.

Many Shinto adherents committed heinous crimes, but I will let you know, not all Kami are good. There are bloodthirsty mischievous malevolent Kami that can inspire people to do bad.

But in Shinto there is also a tradition that bad Kami can become your friend and do good and change. And I think that is just beautiful.
View attachment 56874

But Shinto never commands anyone to kill, judge, condemn, or be a bigot. The original Shinto shrines were blessed trees View attachment 56884 and Shinto followers found Kami in nature, woodlands, mountains, caves, rivers, bodies of water, islands, and sacred places.

Shinto later had a practice of building homes, Hondens, (rooms and structures closed to the public , for the enshrined Kami to dwell)

)View attachment 56881 View attachment 56883View attachment 56882






Kamidana cupboards View attachment 56875 View attachment 56876 for Kami to dwell and be loved and blessed. Then the Kami return the love and blessings. Kami grow, evolve, heal, and transform into greater Kami through our prayers, offerings, sacrifices, and blessings.

View attachment 56880

"Shinto ("the way of the Kami") is the name of the formal state religion of Japan that was first used in the 6th century C.E., although the roots of the religion go back to at least the 6th century B.C.E. Shinto has no founder, no official sacred texts, and no formalized system of doctrine. Shinto has been formative in developing uniquely Japanese attitudes and sensitivities, creating a distinct Japanese consciousness. Belief in kami—sacred or divine beings, although also understood to be spiritual essences—is one of the foundations of Shinto.

View attachment 56877View attachment 56879

Shinto understands that the kami not only exist as spiritual beings, but also in nature; they are within mountains, trees, rivers, and even geographical regions. In this sense, the kami are not like the all-powerful divine beings found in Western religion, but the abstract creative forces in nature. Related to the kami is the understanding that the Shinto followers are supposed to live in harmony and peaceful coexistence with both nature and other human beings. This has enabled Shinto to exist in harmony with other religious traditions
Shinto Origins, Shinto History, Shinto Beliefs


"At the core of Shinto are beliefs in the mysterious creating and harmonizing power (musubi) of kami and in the truthful way (makoto) of kami. The nature of kami cannot be fully explained in words, because kami transcends the cognitive faculty of man.

Today, parishioners of a shrine believe in their tutelary kami as the source of human life and existence. Each kami has a divine personality and responds to truthful prayers.

Truthful way or will (makoto) of kami is revealed to people and guides them to live in accordance with it. In traditional Japanese thought, truth manifests itself in empirical existence and undergoes transformation in infinite varieties in time and space. In Shinto , good deities are said to cooperate with one another, and life lived in accordance with a kami's will, is believed to produce a mystical power that gains the protection, cooperation, and approval of all the particular kami.

A common Shinto saying is that "man is kami's child." First, this means that a person was given his life by kami and that his nature is therefore sacred. In actuality, however, this divine nature is seldom revealed in man, which gives rise to the need for purification an individual must revere the basic human rights of everyone as well as his own.

Shinto is described as a religion of tsunagari ("continuity or community"). The Japanese, while recognizing each man as an individual personality, do not take him as a solitary being separated from others. On the contrary, he is regarded as the bearer of a long, continuous history that comes down from his ancestors and continues in his descendants. Shinto adherents are called to invoke their ancestors, love them, pray for them, and bless them.

From the viewpoint of finite individuals, Shintoists also stress naka-ima ("middle present"), which repeatedly appears in the Imperial edicts of the 8th century. According to this point of view, the present moment is the very center in the middle of all conceivable times. In order to participate directly in the eternal development of the world, it is required of Shintoists to live fully each moment of life, making it as worthy as possible.

The General Principles of Shinto Life proclaimed by the Association of Shinto Shrines in 1956 has the following article: "In accordance with the Emperor's will, let us be harmonious and peaceful, and pray for the nation's development as well as the world's co-prosperity."
Shinto Beliefs - ReligionFacts


This is not a blog but a debate. Is the violence that Shinto adherents committed in the name of Shinto, intrinsic to the nature and essence of Shinto?

If so, how?

Keep in mind, Shinto existed long before Jesus Christ, it just wasn't called Shinto.

This is exactly what I have been saying about the dangers in all faiths.

It is dangerous to be excessively prideful, vain, boastful, and think of others as inferior or wrong about their religion (or wrong about other things). Hitler felt superior to Jews. President George W. Bush felt that Americans would feel safer if he attacked Iraq because, though he had no proof of terrorism, they were in the region of the middle east. So, to make Americans feel safer, 1,000,000 Iraqis had to die defending their country, and innocent women and children were among them.

Inherently, the Christian bible is not an evil document. But, in the hands of religious zealots who don't follow religion, millions of people can die (and have died).

The Religious Right has warped the religion of peace.....now it is the religion of the National Rifle Association (NRA), the religion of war, and the religion of torture camps. Phones were tapped illegally, and spies were in everyone's private business (behind the backs of Congress, and in violation of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution, and privacy rights derived from Supreme Court decisions based on the 5th Amendment, 14th Amendment, and stare decisis (including segments of Roe Vs. Wade that someone translated to privacy, rather than dealing solely with the abortion issue).

Isn't this what President George W. Bush said of the Al Qaeda? Didn't he say that they warped their peaceful Muslim religion into a religion of terrorism? (Get 72 virgins in heaven if they murder innocent teenagers in pizza parlors).

The Religious Right also warped into a mammon worshiping sect that lowers taxes for the rich and looks the other way as oil companies pollute God's environment to save money on pollution controls. Forests have been logged, and Global Warming ignored (and lied about). As factories were outsourced to foreign countries for cheaper labor, Americans lost their jobs (Detroit is a ghost town). W. Bush told us lies....lies that some believe....that Americans don't want to work for a living, and that is why they are unemployed. The economy collapsed in 2008 due to banks greedily lending money to home owners at 125% of the home's worth. When housing prices fell, mortgages and trust deeds were foreclosed and people lost their homes.

The Religious Right warped its religion to ignore the homeless.

Inherently, most religions are fine. They are kind, and they consider the feelings of others.

It isn't the adherence to religion that has caused the world's many problems. It is defying God, and ignoring the bible. Almost all religions seem good.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I just wish to correct the OP on the statement “kill the polytheists wherever you find them”.

This is taken out of context and reflects a lack of in depth knowledge of the Quran. The Holy Text only permits defensive war not murder or premeditated aggression. After Prophet Muhammad and His followers had suffered persecution at the hand of the Meccans for teaching there was only one God, as opposed to the 360 gods which was a lucrative business, they fled to Medina. Soon after, this verse was revealed even though His followers did not wish to fight. I have included a number of translations to show that there is absolutely no ambiguity regarding the defensive nature of Islam taught by the Holy Quran.


2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

2:190 Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love aggressors.

N J Dawood

2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

Marmaduke Pickthall

The Quran teaches to accept all previous religions and be at peace with all but if attacked they have the right of self defense.

 

[Spiderman]

No you have not.

It doesn't make you look wise when you say that. I have studied what the essence and nature and teaching of Shinto is. Re-read the OP.

Shinto doesn't declare that I have to accept Japanese folklore or culture.

Bottom line is I saw Religious groups constantly arguing, divided, judging, condemning, over doctrinal differences , and Scriptural interpretation.

So, a dogmaless, Scriptureless, founderless Religion, was the best Religion for following my conscience and being most humble, charitable, and being able to have synchrony with other faiths, without contradicting Doctrine.

 

[firedragon]

It doesn't make you look wise when you say that. I have studied what the essence and nature and teaching of Shinto is. Re-read the OP.

Shinto doesn't declare that I have to accept Japanese folklore or culture.

Bottom line is I saw Religious groups constantly arguing, divided, judging, condemning, over doctrinal differences , and Scriptural interpretation.

So, a dogmaless, Scriptureless, founderless Religion, was the best Religion for following my conscience and being most humble, charitable, and being able to have synchrony with other faiths, without contradicting Doctrine.

Yeah but by your standards Shintoism gave birth to suicide twrrorism, incest, mass murder, and genocide.

by your standards.

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah but by your standards Shintoism gave birth to suicide twrrorism, incest, mass murder, and genocide.

by your standards.

No, by my standards you would have to find a Shinto infallible Doctrine or inerrant Scripture that supports those things , and you could not.

I found Quranic verses that support terrorism and mutilation and torture. By my standards you must find Shinto Doctrine or Scriptures that support bad behavior and you failed epically. Way to lose an argument.

Kamikaze was invented by "State-Shinto" which is a government controlled religion I don't follow , and many Shinto adherents don't follow.

Also, I already made it clear, Shinto doesn't tell people they must follow Japanese culture or folklore. I don't.

 

[firedragon]

No, by my standards you would have to find a Shinto infallible Doctrine or inerrant Scripture that supports those things , and you could not.

I found Quranic verses that support terrorism and mutilation and torture. By my standards you must find Shinto Doctrine or Scriptures that support bad behavior and you failed epically. Way to lose an argument.

Kamikaze was invented by "State-Shinto" which is a government controlled religion I don't follow , and many Shinto adherents don't follow.

Also, I already made it clear, Shinto doesn't tell people they must follow Japanese culture or folklore. I don't.

Still, Shintoism inspired suicidal terrorism, incest and mass murder. By your win standards.

 

[Brinne]

It doesn't make you look wise when you say that. I have studied what the essence and nature and teaching of Shinto is. Re-read the OP.

Shinto doesn't declare that I have to accept Japanese folklore or culture.

Bottom line is I saw Religious groups constantly arguing, divided, judging, condemning, over doctrinal differences , and Scriptural interpretation.

So, a dogmaless, Scriptureless, founderless Religion, was the best Religion for following my conscience and being most humble, charitable, and being able to have synchrony with other faiths, without contradicting Doctrine.

Divorcing Shinto from Japanese culture is impossible though. It's also by definition appropriation (not even as a buzzword). Shinto is a Japanese indigenous religion, Japanese culture is intrinsic to understanding it and practicing it appropriately.

I would recommend looking into Living With Kami's Shinto Information package and Green Shinto's blog.

 

[Spiderman]

Still, Shintoism inspired suicidal terrorism, incest and mass murder. By your win standards.

No it didn't.

The government did. I don't follow state-Shinto.

 

[Spiderman]

Divorcing Shinto from Japanese culture is impossible though. It's also by definition appropriation (not even as a buzzword). Shinto is a Japanese indigenous religion, Japanese culture is intrinsic to understanding it and practicing it appropriately.

I would recommend looking into Living With Kami's Shinto Information package and Green Shinto's blog.

You don't have to follow Japanese culture to practice Shinto, have a Kamidana, a Honden, and love and bless and pray for the dead , and do good deeds for others.

That is Shinto as I practice it, and Shinto offers that liberty.

 

[Brinne]

You don't have to follow Japanese culture to practice Shinto, have a Kamidana, a Honden, and love and bless and pray for the dead , and do good deeds for others.

That is Shinto as I practice it, and Shinto offers that liberty.

Those are part of Japanese culture though. A Honden is also something that is not found outside of a shrine complex that is maintained by a certified kannushi.

It may not have a set scripture as the Bible but Shinto still very much has a codified hierarchy of qualified individuals who are responsible for dictating how the practice should be carried out. It is not a blank canvas for westerners to splatter whatever they wish over it.

Understanding of Japanese culture is highly important for Shinto. As is a working knowledge of the Japanese language, due to the concept of kotodama (言霊) in Shinto. That is, the spiritual notion that Japanese words (specifically logograms) carry heavy spiritual meaning that cannot be conveyed in English. And as follows, Japanese culture is deeply woven into the language as well - such as through the use of honorifics and expressions.

In being a "Shintoist" you are taking on Japanese culture. The same as if you convert to say Sikhism or Judaism.

 

[firedragon]

No it didn't.

The government did. I don't follow state-Shinto.

I am not speaking about governments. I am speaking about Shintoism.

I know Shintoism was adopted by the government. The government was called Kami. Anyone who killed the emperor is damned by divine authority. etc etc. Common knowledge.

But see, this is your own standard. So Shintoism taught suicide terrorism, incest, mass murder, and suicide after suicide.

 

[Spiderman]

I am not speaking about governments. I am speaking about Shintoism.

I know Shintoism was adopted by the government. The government was called Kami. Anyone who killed the emperor is damned by divine authority. etc etc. Common knowledge.

But see, this is your own standard. So Shintoism taught suicide terrorism, incest, mass murder, and suicide after suicide.

Nope!

Shinto doesn't command any of that. The Quran commands exactly what I said it does. Islam was founded by a mass murderer , pedophile, and terrorist.

No one knows who founded Shinto, so no one can use bad behavior and justify it based off of how the founder lived.

And you could not find one Shinto Scripture or Doctrine that encourages hurting other people. So you lose.

Incest is practiced in every nation and by people of every Religion. It isn't part of the Religion unless there are Scriptures or Doctrines promoting it.

Besides, I don't follow Japanese culture or folklore. My Religion is about loving Kami.

You already love Kami anyway. Kami means God in Japanese.

Even Japanese Christians call God Kami.

Allah is a creator and a Spirit being. That means he is Kami.

My Religion is about loving and enshrining Kami, and loving others. Shinto does not tell adherents they have to believe any Theology or follow any other Doctrines or lore.

So, incest , violence, mutilations, child-brides, terrorism, and hatred, is not part of the branch of Shinto I follow. It is part of Islam, because it is in the life of the founder of Islam , or the Quran and Hadiths.

 

[Spiderman]

Those are part of Japanese culture though. A Honden is also something that is not found outside of a shrine complex that is maintained by a certified kannushi.

It may not have a set scripture as the Bible but Shinto still very much has a codified hierarchy of qualified individuals who are responsible for dictating how the practice should be carried out. It is not a blank canvas for westerners to splatter whatever they wish over it.

Understanding of Japanese culture is highly important for Shinto. As is a working knowledge of the Japanese language, due to the concept of kotodama (言霊) in Shinto. That is, the spiritual notion that Japanese words (specifically logograms) carry heavy spiritual meaning that cannot be conveyed in English. And as follows, Japanese culture is deeply woven into the language as well - such as through the use of honorifics and expressions.

In being a "Shintoist" you are taking on Japanese culture. The same as if you convert to say Sikhism or Judaism.

Shinto doesn't forbid me from having my own personal Honden. The original Shinto adherents didn't have a bunch of hierarchy and lore they had to follow.

I practice my own form of Shinto and Bushido. Bushido for me is doing little things with great love, praying always to Kami, sacrifice, charity, humility, purity of heart, not being angry, no covetousness, no jealousy, no laziness, no gluttony, no unforgiveness.

It is an inner battle and my own personal Samurai code. Some Shinto adherents would not like how I practice it, but it is still Shinto.

I keep a Kamidana, have a Honden room closed to the general public for enshrined Kami, and my apartment is a Shrine with a prayer wall.

No Shinto Doctrine forbids me from doing that. I also know how to speak some Japanese too, like the hail Mary in Japanese. She is one of my Kami with Jesus.

I wear a jacket with the Japanese flag, I have a plate that is a Japanese flag, a have Amaterasu Omikami artwork, Japanese flags on my wall, and I love Amaterasu, but I don't believe the folklore about her. Shinto doesn't say I have to believe those writings.

I believe she is a spirit in my life who is in an alliance with Jesus Christ and Mother Mary.

I believe God found me the perfect Spirit in heaven, to respond to me when I invoke Amaterasu Omikami, Sun Divinity.

But Shinto allows me the liberty to believe what my heart convictions tell me to believe, and follow my conscience.

Shinto will look different depending on who is practicing it. I follow what I sometimes call "American Shinto".

It is simply love and enshrine and bless Kami, pray for them and people, especially politicians, offer up sufferings, follow conscience, ask Kami to guide me, seek enlightenment, forgive those who wrong me.

Ask for wise Kami to also share their knowledge, wisdom, dreams, and will with me. That is my Religion.

There are a lot of souls dying every day who need prayers and love.

 

[Brinne]

Shinto doesn't forbid me from having my own personal Honden. The original Shinto adherents didn't have a bunch of hierarchy and lore they had to follow.

I practice my own form of Shinto and Bushido. Bushido for me is doing little things with great love, praying always to Kami, sacrifice, charity, humility, purity of heart, not being angry, no covetousness, no jealousy, no laziness, no gluttony, no unforgiveness.

It is an inner battle and my own personal Samurai code. Some Shinto adherents would not like how I practice it, but it is still Shinto.

I keep a Kamidana, have a Honden room closed to the general public for enshrined Kami, and my apartment is a Shrine with a prayer wall.

No Shinto Doctrine forbids me from doing that. I also know how to speak some Japanese too, like the hail Mary in Japanese. She is one of my Kami with Jesus.

I wear a jacket with the Japanese flag, I have a plate that is a Japanese flag, a have Amaterasu Omikami artwork, Japanese flags on my wall, and I love Amaterasu, but I don't believe the folklore about her. Shinto doesn't say I have to believe those writings.

I believe she is a spirit in my life who is in an alliance with Jesus Christ and Mother Mary.

I believe God found me the perfect Spirit in heaven, to respond to me when I invoke Amaterasu Omikami, Sun Divinity.

But Shinto allows me the liberty to believe what my heart convictions tell me to believe, and follow my conscience.

Shinto will look different depending on who is practicing it. I follow what I sometimes call "American Shinto".

It is simply love and enshrine and bless Kami, pray for them and people, especially politicians, offer up sufferings, follow conscience, ask Kami to guide me, seek enlightenment, forgive those who wrong me.

Ask for wise Kami to also share their knowledge, wisdom, dreams, and will with me. That is my Religion.

There are a lot of souls dying every day who need prayers and love.

Shinto does actually have established hierarchy. Shinto clergy were a prominent force in Japanese imperial politics up until the introduction of Buddhism from Korea; which saw the rise of Shinbutsu-shugo. Buddhism was leveraged by feudal lords as a way to usurp power from rival clans which put their lot behind the traditional Shinto priesthood. This mess devolved into the Sengoku period.

But Shinto very much has a hierarchy and established understanding. You cannot simply plaster whatever you wish on Shinto -- it is highly disrespectful as expressed in the resources I have linked to you.

Priests who dedicate their lives to studying in seminary and administering rights in a sort of 'priestly internship' would disagree with you. It is actually solely the job of a professional priest to enshrine something -- the creation of the Ofuda (an enshrinment talisman) is not something a lay person should do. A lay person should donate the appropriate amount to a reputable jinja or shrine in their area to receive an Ofuda to 'enshrine' a kami. For us in the US that is Shusse Inari.

Their website has a lot of information. I could also recommend a number of books that are great resources for Shinto practice if you so wish.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What bothers me about Christianity, Islam, and Abrahamic sects, is they commit the heinous atrocities and say "God told us to do it".

The head of the Shinto religion is the emperor of Japan. Until recently, he was considered a god. In WWII this head of teh Shinto religion went to war to try to take over a good part of the world. Enough said.