Religious bigotry is not part of Shinto.

[Brinne]

I see no evidence that Shinto before 700 BC had that hierarchy or traditions. I will follow Kami as my heart convicts me to, and pray constantly that they guide me.

I also have been dedicated to the Kami night and day for years, and shall be until I die.

Some of the Kami I pray to and for, no one else prays to. Different Kami would want different devotions and rituals. Shinto gives me that liberty. There are no absolutes in Shinto.

The Catholic Church has an infallible Magisterum with infallible binding teachings. Shinto does not!

The Yayoi people had shamans who dictated ritual. Subsequently, the Uji system arose with clans that oversaw the priestly duties. So no, you are again incorrect. I can recommend resources if you desire.

Shinto is not your playground. That's it, period. It has rules and traditions that must be respected. Just because they're Eastern and there's no clergy in the West to tell you its incorrect doesn't mean you can disrespect them.

I didn't even mention the Catholic Church in my point about infallibility so please re-read my post again. I stated that clergy can NOT claim infallibility but still have authority. Protestant priests, Orthodox priests, Rabbis, Imams -- ect. Please give kannushi the same level of respect you would give western clergy.

 

[Spiderman]

The Yayoi people had shamans who dictated ritual. Subsequently, the Uji system arose with clans that oversaw the priestly duties. So no, you are again incorrect. I can recommend resources if you desire.

Shinto is not your playground. That's it, period. It has rules and traditions that must be respected. Just because they're Eastern and there's no clergy in the West to tell you its incorrect doesn't mean you can disrespect them.

I didn't even mention the Catholic Church in my point about infallibility so please re-read my post again. I stated that clergy can NOT claim infallibility but still have authority. Protestant priests, Orthodox priests, Rabbis, Imams -- ect. Please give kannushi the same level of respect you would give western clergy.

I give them plenty respect. I'm venerating different Kami than them often, and the Kami ask me to do different things than they might ask them to.

Quit falsely accusing me of disrespecting people! I've been without reserve, dedicated to praying for and to Kami incessantly for over ten years , and I try to obey them.

I also have Kamidanas and Hondenn, that I'm completely convinced that Kami told me to consecrate and reserve for them.

Yes, by all means, when a group of Shinto adherents gather to worship, there should be leadership and traditions. I don't have that opportunity, and Shinto allows private devotions.

Your comment about Rabbis and priests is irrelevant, because they have Doctrines and an infallible word of God Scriptures they follow. It's way different.

Shinto has no Doctrines or infallible teachings or Kami-inspired text that condemns what I'm doing.

Quit falsely accusing me and disrespecting my harmless religious practices . The only thing I'm bashing is bigotry, hate, violence, genocide, and torture, found in the Bible and Quran.

 

[Spiderman]

By your own methodology, Shintoism = Murder, Incest, genocide, Suicide. Inventor and influencer of suicide terrorism.

You failed and you know it. You couldn't produce a single Doctrine or Scriptures to support that. The Quran is full of calls to commit heinous crimes on the other hand. You lose!

 

[Brinne]

I give them plenty respect. I'm venerating different Kami than them often, and the Kami ask me to do different things than they might ask them to.

Quit falsely accusing me of disrespecting people! I've been without reserve, dedicated to praying for and to Kami incessantly for over ten years , and I try to obey them.

I also have Kamidanas and Hondenn, that I'm completely convinced that Kami told me to consecrate and reserve for them.

Yes, by all means, when a group of Shinto adherents gather to worship, there should be leadership and traditions. I don't have that opportunity, and Shinto allows private devotions.

Your comment about Rabbis and priests is irrelevant, because they have Doctrines and an infallible word of God Scriptures they follow. It's way different.

Shinto has no Doctrines or infallible teachings or Kami-inspired text that condemns what I'm doing.

Quit falsely accusing me and disrespecting my harmless religious practices . The only thing I'm bashing is bigotry, hate, violence, genocide, and torture, found in the Bible and Quran.

I think in this reply you sort of got to the root of my and other's contention with your thread. "Quit falsely accusing me and disrespecting my harmless religious practices."

The vast majority of people on here who follow Abrahamic faiths are neither bigots nor perpetrators of genocide or torture. And I feel pretty safe with that claim. The majority of us have a pretty harmless religious practice; consisting of prayer, alms, and whatever service and ritual we feel the need to do on the Weekend.

So maybe understand the disrespect you feel right now is what others tend to feel. The holier-than-thou attitude that allows no one else to criticize your beliefs and then assuming the rest of us are bigots or barbaric without even engaging in a good faith conversation.

 

[Spiderman]

The Yayoi people had shamans who dictated ritual. Subsequently, the Uji system arose with clans that oversaw the priestly duties. So no, you are again incorrect. I can recommend resources if you desire.

Shinto is not your playground. That's it, period. It has rules and traditions that must be respected. Just because they're Eastern and there's no clergy in the West to tell you its incorrect doesn't mean you can disrespect them.

I didn't even mention the Catholic Church in my point about infallibility so please re-read my post again. I stated that clergy can NOT claim infallibility but still have authority. Protestant priests, Orthodox priests, Rabbis, Imams -- ect. Please give kannushi the same level of respect you would give western clergy.

What Yayoi people did and all Shinto priesthood, Miko Shrine maidens, Emperors, and Shinto hierarchy do , I respect.

But there is no official Shinto teaching that says I have to do precisely what they do to qualify as practicing Shinto.

Shinto is belief in Kami, enshrining them, loving, blessing, and invoking them, and one tradition I follow, is Amaterasu Omikami is highest , most important Kami, who I bless every day , and pray for a greater Amaterasu, and that I would obey her, and that the creator obey her.

Shinto allows liberty of private devotions.

 

[firedragon]

You couldn't produce a single Doctrine or Scriptures to support that.

Already did. Thus, by your own methodology, Shintoism = Murder, Incest, genocide, Suicide. Inventor and influencer of suicide terrorism.

 

[Spiderman]

I think in this reply you sort of got to the root of my and other's contention with your thread. "Quit falsely accusing me and disrespecting my harmless religious practices."

The vast majority of people on here who follow Abrahamic faiths are neither bigots nor perpetrators of genocide or torture. And I feel pretty safe with that claim. The majority of us have a pretty harmless religious practice; consisting of prayer, alms, and whatever service and ritual we feel the need to do on the Weekend.

So maybe understand the disrespect you feel right now is what others tend to feel. The holier-than-thou attitude that allows no one else to criticize your beliefs and then assuming the rest of us are bigots or barbaric without even engaging in a good faith conversation.

I never said anyone here was a barbaric or bigoted person.

Quit falsely accusing me and get your facts straight.

I said it is in the text you follow, and you cannot deny it!

 

[Spiderman]

Already did. Thus, by your own methodology, Shintoism = Murder, Incest, genocide, Suicide. Inventor and influencer of suicide terrorism.

Quote the post where you did!

You can't, because you didn't. You lose!

 

[Brinne]

I never said anyone here was a barbaric or bigoted person.

Quit falsely accusing me and get your facts straight.

I said it is in the text you follow, and you cannot deny it!

Right; and what do you think asserting that 'barbarism and bigotry are intrinsic to your belief' system logically follows to?

Considering religion is often a deeply important elements of someone's life, which many other beliefs stem from.

I am stating that you are doing the same 'holier-than-thou' argument that the street-corner fire and brimstone preachers do. It's not a great way to get anyone to support your beliefs when you only use yours as a weapon to bludgeon others with.

 

[firedragon]

Quote the post where you did!

You can't, because you didn't. You lose!

Many.

 

[firedragon]

Right; and what do you think asserting that 'barbarism and bigotry are intrinsic to your belief' system logically follows to?

Considering religion is often a deeply important elements of someone's life, which many other beliefs stem from.

I am stating that you are doing the same 'holier-than-thou' argument that the street-corner fire and brimstone preachers do. It's not a great way to get anyone to support your beliefs when you only use yours as a weapon to bludgeon others with.

If you read the Kojiki, the enemy called the serpent was killed right at the beginning. This is genesis. For what? This is the birth of the warrior race. The princess of super food deity was killed for what? For offering filth to masculinity. Thats male supremacy. Rice, Silk Worms, beans and barley etc were born from the murdered deity. One of the noble things is to kill someone and commit suicide, which is something one could use to say "suicide terrorism was invented by Shintoism". One will marry three of his sisters. Wife and sister are interchangeable. Thats incest. Jummu would kill a whole world of people just to get rid of them. Thats mass murder and genocide.

See, Shintoism is a word like "asian religions". So its not monolithic. Kami is a plural and has many deities in it. This is a fascinating mythology and when you read these you dont make summations like what I did above. Thats not an academic approach, and is not a scholarly approach. Also these are just cherry picked just to demonise Shintoism.

But this is the methodology used by this person in this thread what ever his name is. That is why I am just applying the same methodology. Same standards.

I dont know Japanese, I dont know Chinese. Maybe I can count to 10. Kojiki was written in some Kanji and Chinese if I am not mistaken. And the manuscripts are only dated to around 600 years ago. Or was it 700? Something like that. There is no authenticity in it but they do seem to depict ancient Japanese culture and government worship so people do believe they are more ancient than that. One should not take such shallow stances when it comes to any scripture. There is a lot of scholarship about all of these and if we are just a tad grown up, we would read or study scholarship, not cut and paste from a money making website because it suits our need. Every culture has its merits and things to learn from. Long ago I read about this four paragon philosophy of the Japanese. A guy called Arindam Choudary wrote it. It was fascinating to me. How much the Japanese would sacrifice and hero worship their parents.

Taking any book or scripture and making such shallow statements like above in the first paragraph is done by worthless individuals only. But that's the method employed in this thread.

Cheers.

 

[Spiderman]

If you read the Kojiki, the enemy called the serpent was killed right at the beginning. This is genesis. For what? This is the birth of the warrior race. The princess of super food deity was killed for what? For offering filth to masculinity. Thats male supremacy. Rice, Silk Worms, beans and barley etc were born from the murdered deity. One of the noble things is to kill someone and commit suicide, which is something one could use to say "suicide terrorism was invented by Shintoism". One will marry three of his sisters. Wife and sister are interchangeable. Thats incest. Jummu would kill a whole world of people just to get rid of them. Thats mass murder and genocide.

See, Shintoism is a word like "asian religions". So its not monolithic. Kami is a plural and has many deities in it. This is a fascinating mythology and when you read these you dont make summations like what I did above. Thats not an academic approach, and is not a scholarly approach. Also these are just cherry picked just to demonise Shintoism.

But this is the methodology used by this person in this thread what ever his name is. That is why I am just applying the same methodology. Same standards.

I dont know Japanese, I dont know Chinese. Maybe I can count to 10. Kojiki was written in some Kanji and Chinese if I am not mistaken. And the manuscripts are only dated to around 600 years ago. Or was it 700? Something like that. There is no authenticity in it but they do seem to depict ancient Japanese culture and government worship so people do believe they are more ancient than that. One should not take such shallow stances when it comes to any scripture. There is a lot of scholarship about all of these and if we are just a tad grown up, we would read or study scholarship, not cut and paste from a money making website because it suits our need. Every culture has its merits and things to learn from. Long ago I read about this four paragon philosophy of the Japanese. A guy called Arindam Choudary wrote it. It was fascinating to me. How much the Japanese would sacrifice and hero worship their parents.

Taking any book or scripture and making such shallow statements like above in the first paragraph is done by worthless individuals only. But that's the method employed in this thread.

Cheers.

Kojiki came long after Shinto existed and is not Shinto Scriptures. There is no Shinto Doctrine stating that the Kojiki is true or inspired by Kami.

That's the best you could do? I said find Shinto Doctrine or infallible text or teaching. You claimed you did. I caught you in a lie for everyone to see.

You just had an epic fail. I'm laughing.

 

[Spiderman]

Many.

False!

 

[firedragon]

Kojiki came long after Shinto existed and is not Shinto Scriptures.

Yeah. Even baby knows that.

But see, this is only for you using your own standards and methodologies. This is going as shallow and as low in intellect as you.

So, by your own methodology, Shintoism = Murder, Incest, genocide, Suicide. Inventor and influencer of suicide terrorism. It inspired every single suicide terrorist in the world.

 

[Spiderman]

Right; and what do you think asserting that 'barbarism and bigotry are intrinsic to your belief' system logically follows to?

Considering religion is often a deeply important elements of someone's life, which many other beliefs stem from.

I am stating that you are doing the same 'holier-than-thou' argument that the street-corner fire and brimstone preachers do. It's not a great way to get anyone to support your beliefs when you only use yours as a weapon to bludgeon others with.

I'm stating that it is common to believe Scripture is inspired by God , and God guided those who wrote them. Scripture declares all Scripture is inspired by God.

It leads people to condemn others as unsaved, heretics, Idolaters, or going to hell.

The calls to violence and glorification of torture and amputation of limbs in the Quran has been used to justify that behavior, even in our 21st century. That does indeed bother me.

People should follow their conscience above an ancient text.

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah. Even baby knows that.

But see, this is only for you using your own standards and methodologies. This is going as shallow and as low in intellect as you.

So, by your own methodology, Shintoism = Murder, Incest, genocide, Suicide. Inventor and influencer of suicide terrorism. It inspired every single suicide terrorist in the world.

Ridiculous.

I told you to use my methodology, and find Shinto teachings, Doctrines, or Scriptures that support that , and you lied and said you did "many" times, then you could not quote one post of yours where you did.

Pathetic.

I caught you in a lie and you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[firedragon]

I told you to use my methodology,

No no no. See, I am using your methodology when you do your livelihood, insulting other peoples religions. Not invent your own religion and praise it. You understand? This is your own methodology of that shallow cherry picking, not studying, not growing up, being as shallow as one could get.

So, by your own methodology, Shintoism = Murder, Incest, genocide, Suicide. Inventor and influencer of suicide terrorism. It inspired every single suicide terrorist in the world.

 

[Brinne]

I'm stating that it is common to believe Scripture is inspired by God , and God guided those who wrote them. Scripture declares all Scripture is inspired by God.

It leads people to condemn others as unsaved, heretics, Idolaters, or going to hell.

The calls to violence and glorification of torture and amputation of limbs in the Quran has been used to justify that behavior, even in our 21st century. That does indeed bother me.

People should follow their conscience above an ancient text.

Going to break this one down

I'm stating that it is common to believe Scripture is inspired by God , and God guided those who wrote them. Scripture declares all Scripture is inspired by God.

The survey I have linked you proves the picture that is painted is way more diverse than you're asserting. Especially among Christians, since there is such a wide breadth of belief between every denomination.

It leads people to condemn others as unsaved, heretics, Idolaters, or going to hell.

The loudest voices do not a majority make.

The calls to violence and glorification of torture and amputation of limbs in the Quran has been used to justify that behavior, even in our 21st century. That does indeed bother me.

So your claim is that the glorification of violence and torture is somehow linked to behavior nowadays while also being intrinsic to Islam. Let's look at that.

Firstly; if this was somehow a faith that intrinsically glorified violence how is it that Islamic societies throughout history where really no more violent than any other. And these were Islamic societies - not just societies that practiced Islam. The early Caliphates were centers of science and learning and often were multi-faith; especially in the case of Al-Andalus. So it seems history and observable fact has already disproved your hypothesis.

Secondly; so now that we have disproved that there violence is glorified in Islam anymore than any other culture than we should address the violence in the 21st century. To this it is important to view the history of the Middle East. Religious nationalism arose (initially) in opposition to the Ottoman occupation of the region (which please, note this opposition was funded primarily by Western powers to destabilize the region) as the Ottomans were painted as the enemies of the Arab population. Religion was simply utilized as an ideology to create an "us vs them" portrait (similar to how Shinto was utilized in WWII).

Thus this spiral of extremism and far-right populism was largely based in the material conditions of the Middle East. It was utilized as an anti-colonial mindset; the same as how socialism was utilized in South East Asia and China as a mechanism to oppose Western colonialism in Indochina. Or how Japan utilized Shintoism and far-right nationalism to oppose Western hegemony in the Pacific.

 

[Spiderman]

Going to break this one down



The survey I have linked you proves the picture that is painted is way more diverse than you're asserting. Especially among Christians, since there is such a wide breadth of belief between every denomination.



The loudest voices do not a majority make.



So your claim is that the glorification of violence and torture is somehow linked to behavior nowadays while also being intrinsic to Islam. Let's look at that.

Firstly; if this was somehow a faith that intrinsically glorified violence how is it that Islamic societies throughout history where really no more violent than any other. And these were Islamic societies - not just societies that practiced Islam. The early Caliphates were centers of science and learning and often were multi-faith; especially in the case of Al-Andalus. So it seems history and observable fact has already disproved your hypothesis.

Secondly; so now that we have disproved that there violence is glorified in Islam anymore than any other culture than we should address the violence in the 21st century. To this it is important to view the history of the Middle East. Religious nationalism arose (initially) in opposition to the Ottoman occupation of the region (which please, note this opposition was funded primarily by Western powers to destabilize the region) as the Ottomans were painted as the enemies of the Arab population. Religion was simply utilized as an ideology to create an "us vs them" portrait (similar to how Shinto was utilized in WWII).

Thus this spiral of extremism and far-right populism was largely based in the material conditions of the Middle East. It was utilized as an anti-colonial mindset; the same as how socialism was utilized in South East Asia and China as a mechanism to oppose Western colonialism in Indochina. Or how Japan utilized Shintoism and far-right nationalism to oppose Western hegemony in the Pacific.

Cutting off hands and feet is not okay under any circumstances save for medical reasons to save a life, yet the Quran declares there are times that , and torture, is okay, because a person is an enemy of Islam, as their punishment!

Repeatedly the Quran condemns Polytheists, unbelievers, Christians, and non-muslims.

The Muslims who cut off heads are doing what Muhammad did. It is intrinsically a violent Religion, because their holy book is very violent, and their founder was very violent and bigoted.

Jesus said those who do not eat his flesh and drink his blood have no life in them. The New testament says those whose names are not written in the book off life will be tossed into some lake of fire where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That is intrinsic to Christianity because it was the teaching of the founder of Christianity.

 

[Brinne]

Cutting off hands and feet is not okay under any circumstances save for medical reasons to save a life, yet the Quran declares there are times that , and torture, is okay, because a person is an enemy of Islam, as their punishment!

Repeatedly the Quran condemns Polytheists, unbelievers, Christians, and non-muslims.

The Muslims who cut off heads are doing what Muhammad did. It is intrinsically a violent Religion, because their holy book is very violent, and their founder was very violent and bigoted.

Jesus said those who do not eat his flesh and drink his blood have no life in them. The New testament says those whose names are not written in the book off life will be tossed into some lake of fire where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That is intrinsic to Christianity because it was the teaching of the founder of Christianity.

There's no point in us discussing this if you're not going to read my posts. You didn't even address what I said about "intrinsic violence" - I disproved your theory but you made no effort to meaningful engage in it.

Go back and read. Thank you.