"Religious people are scared of hell; spiritual people have actually been there."

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Religious people are scared of hell; spiritual people have actually been there."

I heard some woman say this at a Narcotics Anonymous meeting the other day. I have to say that it really resonated with me.

If heaven is a place on earth, hell certainly has a presence here too.

Most self proclaimed "religious" people who I've met, who seem to be paying lip service to the religion they were born into, don't seem to question their concept of spirituality in any analytical way and approach spirituality as if it is some kind of hobby or chore to avoid being burned for eternity. The idea of communicating with god or the universe or whatever as if it were a person sitting in front of you seems completely and utterly ridiculous.

On the other hand, most of my friends and like minded individuals have gone through some first world hell of their own making (as first world problems usually tend to be self-constructed) and we've all seemed to have had genuine spiritual experiences that involved some form of redemption from self-imposed suffering and connection with our surroundings; ultimately there seems to be a consensus that everything that we had gone through had happened for some divine reason (to allow us to experience some form of higher power) and that simply the fact that we are still alive and kicking indicates that there is some purpose for all of us - the fallen ones.

It seems to have a lot of substance to it than: "damn it! we're gonna be late for church!"

After reading your post, I still have no idea what "spiritual" or "spirituality" means.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

22

I guess you looked at my profile.

 

[jeager106]

I guess you looked at my profile.

That's why the profile is there. :>)

 

[Fool]

"Religious people are scared of hell; spiritual people have actually been there."

I heard some woman say this at a Narcotics Anonymous meeting the other day. I have to say that it really resonated with me.

If heaven is a place on earth, hell certainly has a presence here too.

Most self proclaimed "religious" people who I've met, who seem to be paying lip service to the religion they were born into, don't seem to question their concept of spirituality in any analytical way and approach spirituality as if it is some kind of hobby or chore to avoid being burned for eternity. The idea of communicating with god or the universe or whatever as if it were a person sitting in front of you seems completely and utterly ridiculous.

On the other hand, most of my friends and like minded individuals have gone through some first world hell of their own making (as first world problems usually tend to be self-constructed) and we've all seemed to have had genuine spiritual experiences that involved some form of redemption from self-imposed suffering and connection with our surroundings; ultimately there seems to be a consensus that everything that we had gone through had happened for some divine reason (to allow us to experience some form of higher power) and that simply the fact that we are still alive and kicking indicates that there is some purpose for all of us - the fallen ones.

It seems to have a lot of substance to it than: "damn it! we're gonna be late for church!"

the idea runs throughout many systems, evolution - adapt and evolve or become extinct

alchemy - deut 4:20

philosopher's stone - revelation 4:3

masonry - psalms 127:1

maybe, just maybe, religious folks are scared of hell because they haven't overcome the 1st death. they associate the death of the form, personality, with finality, or nothingness.

Reincarnation


No-Hiding Theorem

 

[Timothy Bryce]

I don't understand how anything I said has such implications, no. You're going to have to explain to me how objecting gross over-generalizations about "religious people" is in any way making a comment about the character of the speaker. I just get fed up with folks saying "religious people" when they are talking about some teaching that is specific to particular religions. Damnatory hells are pretty much just a thing within certain traditions of Christianity and Islam, yet this woman speaks as if all of us religions people are beholden to that? Rubbish. As a non-Christian, I get really sick and tired of this sort of thing.

Fair enough. So would you consider yourself to be a so-called "religious person"?

 

[Timothy Bryce]

That higher power is called nature.

I would take it further and state that it's a connection with nature which I admit, in and of itself, is somewhat of a redundant statement to make as humans are inseparable from nature itself.

I suppose the necessity for making that distinction has something to do with the way we've evolved as a species; you take a typical human being (usually from the west) and their minds are racing all over various subjects, both fixating and disengaging from various mental imageries and ideas - often either reflecting on the past and anticipating the future. If you replace the human with a bonobo, the bonobo would probably just sit there, relatively peacefully, maybe slightly pondering some bonobo ****.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

the idea runs throughout many systems, evolution - adapt and evolve or become extinct

alchemy - deut 4:20

philosopher's stone - revelation 4:3

masonry - psalms 127:1

maybe, just maybe, religious folks are scared of hell because they haven't overcome the 1st death. they associate the death of the form, personality, with finality, or nothingness.

Reincarnation


No-Hiding Theorem

Interesting.

In some heavily altered states of mind, I believe I've experienced "ego death" (which I found absolutely beautiful - perhaps the most transcendent thing a person can experience) which can also double in a darker sense of a feeling of cosmic annihilation - the feeling as though, "yep, this is it - there's nothing left; it's all over".

I've been privileged to experience both of these things (even if they are the same thing just being interpreted differently) while also being able to return to normality and regular life. I suppose a spiritual interpretation of one's non-existence can be shared by the religious and the non-religious, spiritual and non-spiritual - all people; just an interpretation of the inevitable end and the unimaginable preconception of one's life.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

After reading your post, I still have no idea what "spiritual" or "spirituality" means.

I suppose you just have to experience it for yourself; not as something that others get to enjoy that others are not able to but something that is always there - always around - whether it can be perceived at certain intervals in a person's life or not is bound by their individual life experience.

My spiritual experiences have been relatively brief in terms of time, but profound in providing me with the ability to see some kind of ineffable greater picture.

 

[psychoslice]

My mistaken interpretation. What a great post!

That's Ok, I should explain myself more I suppose ?.

 

[jeager106]

That's Ok, I should explain myself more I suppose ?.

Feel free as you did a great job!
Kudo's to ya.

 

[David T]

I would take it further and state that it's a connection with nature which I admit, in and of itself, is somewhat of a redundant statement to make as humans are inseparable from nature itself.

I suppose the necessity for making that distinction has something to do with the way we've evolved as a species; you take a typical human being (usually from the west) and their minds are racing all over various subjects, both fixating and disengaging from various mental imageries and ideas - often either reflecting on the past and anticipating the future. If you replace the human with a bonobo, the bonobo would probably just sit there, relatively peacefully, maybe slightly pondering some bonobo ****.

Yes we would amd try and figure out creative ways of using bonobo **** and market package advertise it!! We are a very very creative bunch, but may fall in love with our own reflection and creations some times. Sort of like the monkey that creates mirror and over time becomes convinced that the mirror is as real as them. Our cranium loves itself a lot and our cranium development institutions really love themselves a lot.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Job needed to be corrected.

God SPECIFICALLY tells Satan He knows Job doesn't deserve this chain yanking.

Everyone should scared to death of hell and no one living has eve been there.

Speak for yourself.

So you are really just frighten of dying, and your belief is your crutch ?.

Is it too much to ask to go out in a way that will make the epitaph on the headstone sound really epic?

They're just words - people can define them as they wish.

Indeed. After all, if we want to be absurdly picky, this is hell.

 

[omega2xx]

God SPECIFICALLY tells Satan He knows Job doesn't deserve this chain yanking.


Speak for yourself.


Is it too much to ask to go out in a way that will make the epitaph on the headstone sound really epic?


Indeed. After all, if we want to be absurdly picky, this is hell.

If you want to say something that is absurd, it is "people can define words they way they want to."

 

[Quintessence]

Fair enough. So would you consider yourself to be a so-called "religious person"?

How could I not, when the meaning of the term "religious" is as broad as it is? It doesn't even have to have anything to do with religion per se. To be religious about something is to be strongly devoted and committed to it. I would hope we are hard pressed to find someone without that kind of dedication to something in their lives. I happen to be religious about my religion yes, but many people who have a religion are not actually that religious about their religion.

 

[Timothy Bryce]

How could I not, when the meaning of the term "religious" is as broad as it is? It doesn't even have to have anything to do with religion per se. To be religious about something is to be strongly devoted and committed to it. I would hope we are hard pressed to find someone without that kind of dedication to something in their lives. I happen to be religious about my religion yes, but many people who have a religion are not actually that religious about their religion.

I can see the truth in that. I suppose that would mean even atheists, anti-theists and the like could also be considered religious people.

I could consider myself a religious football fan (when my faith is strong lol) and I remember a line from Better Call Saul where Jimmy's brother screams at him and lectures him about how "the law is sacred"; I've definitely met lawyers who feel that way - usually the really old school ones. I suppose, ultimately, I could consider music and literature of all forms to be expressions about my religion; and, to bring things full circle, both of those things have played a major role in my engagement in and recovery from [censored], thus have caused my spiritual awakening, rebirth and atypical religious grace.

 

[Shia Islam]

ultimately there seems to be a consensus that everything that we had gone through had happened for some divine reason (to allow us to experience some form of higher power) and that simply

The idea of communicating with god or the universe or whatever as if it were a person sitting in front of you seems completely and utterly ridiculous.

Any religion related idea can be seen as strange..
Whether you believe in God or you believe in chance and nature, people with the other opinions will see your belief as strange.

So as you see the beliefs of the others as completely and utterly ridiculous, they see yours in the same way.

Then when it comes to being scared of Hell, I would say that many non-religious people are more scared of Hell than many religious ones, as the religious people are doing their duties toward God, and hence they believe that God will not punish them. And in the other hand, how can an atheist be sure that there is no possibility of the existence of a God, who will punish him for not obeying his commands?!!

 

[Timothy Bryce]

Any religion related idea can be seen as strange..
Whether you believe in God or you believe in chance and nature, people with the other opinions will see your belief as strange.

So as you see the beliefs of the others as completely and utterly ridiculous, they see yours in the same way.

Then when it comes to being scared of Hell, I would say that many non-religious people are more scared of Hell than many religious ones, as the religious people are doing their duties toward God, and hence they believe that God will not punish them. And in the other hand, how can an atheist be sure that there is no possibility of the existence of a God, who will punish him for not obeying his commands?!!

*arches back*

Oh boy...

 

[psychoslice]

Those to me who are scared of hell are seeing hell literally, those who are not scared, see hell as a metaphor, which of course it is.

 

[EbonyBreeCaple]

Ive personally dealt with addiction and metaphorically can see the connection between a self induced sense of never ending despair and the idea of it being a living hell. I tried NA as my addiction was weed but felt out of place with those addicted to harder substances. Never the less, extricating myself from the culture and dealing with the cravings and the impact other drugs and alcohol had on my life seemed like a situation I would never escape. I hope you over come your addiction and see as I now see that substance abuse and the feelings of dependancy it induces is a very selfish and privileged addiction. Not trying to guilt trip you, just that realizing there are people in the world living in war zones or experiencing famine or severe poverty or physical, mental or sexual abuse that they cannot escape without the help of others made me feel so guilty for feeling like a victim when in reality I was being selfish.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I mean "hell" in a rhetorical sense.
The way the bible should be interpreted IMO.

Then, you mean "hell" as used in a figure of speech and Not a literal forever burning.
Especially when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks, false clergy adopted and began to teach a non-biblical hell teaching as being Scripture when really Not found in Scripture. That allowed them to create non-biblical pain-filled style of hell teaching to use as a scare tactic to try to control the flock. Apparently many TV preachers still find that non-biblical hell teaching is still effective on their audiences.