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"Religious People Distrust Atheists as Much as Rapists"

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There is No interpret of any thing, when its plain and simple.when God states what is Abomination unto him, That's it. Nothing more to be added.
That is a comfortable but overly simplified outlook. Worse, it denies that there is any nuance to scripture from things like translation from a wholly different language or dynamic interplay from other parts of scripture. It'd be like saying God states consumption of shellfish is an abominaion, nothing more to be added.
Well, no, there is more to it than that.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
That is a comfortable but overly simplified outlook. Worse, it denies that there is any nuance to scripture from things like translation from a wholly different language or dynamic interplay from other parts of scripture. It'd be like saying God states consumption of shellfish is an abominaion, nothing more to be added.
Well, no, there is more to it than that.

Have you any idea what is and what is not Abomination unto God.

To worship anything else besides God is an Abomination unto God.
For a man or woman to think they can stand in the place of God, is Abomination unto God.
Abomination means = Extreme Hatred.
Therefore things that are Abomination is an Extreme Hatred of God's.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Have you any idea what is and what is not Abomination unto God.
If there is a god, I would never pretend to know anything of what this entity thinks, let alone what it finds, if anything, to be an abomination. I also doubt any human who would claim to speak or write on the behalf of god, and that is what the Bible, and all other religious texts are.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
One thing that really impressed during Obama's first inaugural speech, and the only part of it I remember, was when he acknowledged non-believers as a group who are a part of this nation along with those of the specific religions he gave examples of.

But that's not America's message to the atheists living there. They're outsiders. They're outside of the "we" of In God We Trust. They are outside the, "one nation, under god." People who have no god, live under none, and trust none are obviously not fully American.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Have you any idea what is and what is not Abomination unto God.

To worship anything else besides God is an Abomination unto God.
For a man or woman to think they can stand in the place of God, is Abomination unto God.
Abomination means = Extreme Hatred.
Therefore things that are Abomination is an Extreme Hatred of God's.
It wasn't about worshipping anything else, more specifically it said not to worship strange gods and not to use idols which most Christianity seems to forget. Far as I can tell of the first commandment is Atheists may be closer than most theists in following it. 99% of theists would be worshipping strange gods before the real one.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This whole thread is a train wreck.

That's right its God place. That's why we have God's word to show who is and who isn't Christian.

You want me to believe that God stands with Atheistism, Atheists stand against God in denying the existence of God.

"But Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven" Matthew 10:33

Notice the word ( whosoever ) This means anyone and everyone. Who deny's Christ, Christ will also deny them.

Therefore Obama can not stand for Atheist and then be against Atheistism.
It's either for or against. Obama can not stand for Atheistism and then against.
That's being a two face hypocrite.

Christianity doesn't work that way, No more than Atheists which deny's God.

Wait. Being an atheist and antitheist are two different things. And hey, if an atheist is against religion they are against not just your religion but mine too but I don't go around trying to act like mine is the only one that matters in that discussion.

Oh there are self-identified antitheists out there, and they fall under atheism but aren't the sum of atheism. To be honest I think they're part of the problem, minority though they may be.

Butchered English is still butchered. He said atheist-ism not anti-theism.

Wow.......what a large sample.

Ya, 1k people isn't a very good indication, I agree.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe that our conscience comes from God. It's the inner desire to help rather than hurt, to lift rather than put down. It's empathy. The voice in our hearts that says "don't do that, that's wrong". I believe that is light from God.

If I believed that, I'd have to also believe that Christianity interferes with that process, since it's the non-Christians that seem to have the better handle on empathy - at least in the US.

Who had more empathy for loving same sex couples that wanted to marry to enjoy the legal protections and societal acceptance granted by that status - the secular humanists or the Christians? We secular humanists have only our internal moral compass to rely on for making moral judgments, and look to no scripture or clergy for instructions. From the perspective of the unbeliever, empathy prevails in this matter. To too many Christians, it doesn't. They care about enforcing what they think is the will of their god. I don't see much "inner desire to help" there.

So, if the inner desire to help comes from God, then those of us with no religion seem to be more in touch with God than those who profess to believe in Him.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
If I believed that, I'd have to also believe that Christianity interferes with that process, since it's the non-Christians that seem to have the better handle on empathy - at least in the US.

Who had more empathy for loving same sex couples that wanted to marry to enjoy the legal protections and societal acceptance granted by that status - the secular humanists or the Christians? We secular humanists have only our internal moral compass to rely on for making moral judgments, and look to no scripture or clergy for instructions. From the perspective of the unbeliever, empathy prevails in this matter. To too many Christians, it doesn't. They care about enforcing what they think is the will of their god. I don't see much "inner desire to help" there.

So, if the inner desire to help comes from God, then those of us with no religion seem to be more in touch with God than those who profess to believe in Him.

But what if it's aint Necessarily So.
Then it's anit Necessarily so. But if it's anit Necessarily so, then it wouldn't be it's anit Necessarily so. That sets a Necessarily so dilemma. Wouldn't you think it's anit Necessarily so.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Oh there are self-identified antitheists out there, and they fall under atheism but aren't the sum of atheism. To be honest I think they're part of the problem, minority though they may be.

I call myself an antitheist for lack of a better word to describe somebody that considers organized, politicized Christianity in the US (and Islam elsewhere) to be a problem and to have a net negative. I am not the enemy of theists and have no complaint with most forms of theism or any form of personal, private religion, which is why I don't like the word.

I happen to object to the incessant efforts of the American church to pierce the church-state wall, to marginalize and demonize atheists and homosexuals, to teach that man is a failed race born spiritually sick and worthy of punishment for being human, for attempting to undermine respect for science and scientists, to teach that the body is a source of shame and that one should feel guilt over most kinds of consensual sex, that academic institutions from public schools to universities are insidious propagandizers and that one's children should be kept out of them, that human society is basically evil and the world something to disengage from as much as possible, the war on reproductive freedom and proper sex education, Christian exceptionalism (our billboards, invocations, and religious displays on government property are OK, yours aren't), teaching that suffering is good, the idea that being unable to impose your form of religion on others is persecution, diverting credit and gratitude due human beings to an unseen god, and more.

Objecting to all of that, and finding not much of value on the other side of the balance sheet creditable to organized, politicized Christianity, leads one to think that the less of that in the world, the better. That is what I mean by antitheism, and I doubt that you would call holding those ideas part of any problem.

Perhaps you're referring to atheistic activism. For somebody like me, that is limited to giving sincerely believed, carefully considered, and constructively offered opinions as politely as I can, but recognizing that that will cause many to be personally offended and react with anger or resentment.

I don't see any problem there, either - at least not on my end.

I also refute many claims from Christians about atheists, usually by showing how the criticism applies more to Christianity than to the unbelievers. Common examples would be when atheists are described as lacking purpose or meaning in their lives, to be trying to escape accountability, to have no basis for moral behavior, to be spiritually dead, to be closed-minded, to not understand what love and mercy are, etc.. It is very easy to not only to rebut these charges, but to show that they all apply to Christianity more so.

Many Christians won't like that either. They probably won't like this post, either, but is that a problem, or a reason for me to censor these ideas? People who come to Religious Forums to promote their ideas, many making derogatory claims about atheists and atheism, have no right in my opinion to be offended by answers that contradict their claims, and if they are, that's unfortunate, but that's their choice. They need to understand that contradictory opinions are not a sign of hating Christians, hating God, or satanic influence.

Is any of this what you mean by the problem? I see it as working toward a better world.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Having God's word is how to determine on how to judge.
Christ Jesus said , Judge not by the appearance, But judge righteous judgment.

First if Obama is a Christian then he would know that God stands above him, Then Obama would be a servant to God and then Obama would line himself up to God's ways and not of his own ways.

For Obama to serve, First Obama would serve God then serve the nation and bring Himself in Accordance to God.

Obama can not be a Christian and support the abominations that God is against.

If Obama is a Christian, then he would stand for Christian morals and values.
You can not say your Christian and set aside the Christian faith.

Being a Christian, Means you do not set aside being a christian, But stand on being a Christian first and above all.
Obama served no one, but himself.

Good post. Quite insightful.

Perhaps I need to reconsider my claim that Christianity damages people intellectually and morally, and is a net negative on society at large.

But what if it's aint Necessarily So.
Then it's anit Necessarily so. But if it's anit Necessarily so, then it wouldn't be it's anit Necessarily so. That sets a Necessarily so dilemma. Wouldn't you think it's anit Necessarily so.

Good points as well. Thanks for pointing that out.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Who had more empathy for loving same sex couples that wanted to marry to enjoy the legal protections and societal acceptance granted by that status - the secular humanists or the Christians?

You should not assume that one who opposes same sex marriage has less empathy for gays than those who favor it.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You should not assume that one who opposes same sex marriage has less empathy for gays than those who favor it.

It is pretty much a given that those who oppose same sex marriage aren't being empathetic. If you have a counterargument, you might consider presenting it.

I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't want to be treated as the Christian church treats homosexuals.

I'm pretty sure that if a religion ever ascended that called your presumed heterosexuality an abomination, and worked to prevent you from enjoying the benefits of marriage, you would consider that far beyond a lack of empathy, and well into persecution.

Where is the Christian empathy for atheists? What we get instead is the same thing the homosexual community gets from the church - bigotry and hate speech beginning with scripture.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
It is pretty much a given that those who oppose same sex marriage aren't being empathetic. If you have a counterargument, you might consider presenting it.

I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't want to be treated as the Christian church treats homosexuals.

I'm pretty sure that if a religion ever ascended that called your presumed heterosexuality an abomination, and worked to prevent you from enjoying the benefits of marriage, you would consider that far beyond a lack of empathy, and well into persecution.

Where is the Christian empathy for atheists? What we get instead is the same thing the homosexual community gets from the church - bigotry and hate speech beginning with scripture.

I understand why you feel that way. And I have to agree some people seem to hate "in the name of Christianity" and with scripture as their excuse. But there is something of which I am certain, yet know you will find it hard to believe. I know Mormon families who have gay children and they love and empathize with their gay kids. They want them to be happy and they would give their lives for them. Yet, they also oppose gay marriage. You find that contradictory. I honestly don't think you understand the depth of faith those parents have in the scriptures and also the depth of love they have for their children.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
One issue with that are mental disorders that leave people impaired in the area of empathy, or just don't have it at all. Myself, having Asperger's, I fall into the "empathy impaired" group. So why would god, if our conscience truly comes from him, have given those like me a hard time with it and leaving us having to take a long detour to reach an understanding (if we reach it at all) that others intuitively get and understand?

While I believe that God instills within our conscience a sense of right and wrong, I don't think there is a simple on/off switch at work. Our sense of right and wrong is also influenced by our culture, our religion, and then we have issues such as you brought up with Asperger's and empathy.

I believe that we are in a learning and proving ground here on earth. God will judge us by right and wrong. But God will take into account every single circumstance and detail of our mental health, intellectual capacity, environment, upbringing, ad infinitum. God levels the playing field when it comes to his judgement. This is why it's so important to not judge one another. We don't have the information or the intellect to match God. We can teach and encourage each other on what is right and what is wrong, but we musn't make value judgement's on one's character or "goodness" based on our observations. "But for the grace of God, so go I".
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You should not assume that one who opposes same sex marriage has less empathy for gays than those who favor it.

Self righteous pity and empathy are two different things. If one was truly empathetic they would see that there isn't anything wrong with it and keeping them from having legal rights to their partner is cruel. There are a lot of cases in sickness, injury and others that spouses have certain rights that can't be afforded to simply a partner (either homosexual or heterosexual). Put basically it gives more protections to the family unit in a lot of circumstances.

Empathy is putting yourself in their shoes, and realizing that for those who want it, they need it as much as a heterosexual couple.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Self righteous pity and empathy are two different things. If one was truly empathetic they would see that there isn't anything wrong with it and keeping them from having legal rights to their partner is cruel. There are a lot of cases in sickness, injury and others that spouses have certain rights that can't be afforded to simply a partner (either homosexual or heterosexual). Put basically it gives more protections to the family unit in a lot of circumstances.

Empathy is putting yourself in their shoes, and realizing that for those who want it, they need it as much as a heterosexual couple.

My post 98 responds to this too.

Somehow I allowed myself into a gay marriage discussion, which was not my plan. :)
 
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