Remove ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ from Facebook

[.lava]

The same can be said of of a number of things. I'm offended when people impose Hitler mustaches on images of the president, or when American flags are burned... does that mean those things should be outlawed?

good point. no, i personally don't think they should be illegal. but they should not be supported and rewarded either

.

 

[McBell]

but they should not be supported and rewarded either

I support their right to do it.
I support it even more than I support the group this thread is whining about.
(Thanks for the link BTW)

As far as being "rewarded"...
Seems to me that his thread is part of said reward...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Of course I understand that, but it's beside the point. Do you understand that you don't get to dictate to others what constitutes a 'good idea'?

No, it's not beside the point. The freedom of speech that allows one person to behave like a douche is the same freedom of speech that allows someone else to say "hey, you're being a douche".

Just because you or anyone else doesn't like something that is being said doesn't give you the right to enforce your view on others.

I'm not trying to enforce anything on anyone. Again:

Do you not understand the difference between "you're free to say that, but I don't think it's a good idea" and "you shouldn't be free to say that"?

 

[Perfect Circle]

good point. no, i personally don't think they should be illegal. but they should not be supported and rewarded either

.

That's a perfectly reasonable response. I say we just leave it at that. If you use facebook, continue to do so. If you're offended by the group or images, simply don't join the group or view the images. It's just that simple.

 

[.lava]

That's a perfectly reasonable response. I say we just leave it at that. If you use facebook, continue to do so. If you're offended by the group or images, simply don't join the group or view the images. It's just that simple.

i agree. that's what i do as an individual. it is simple and neat

.

 

[McBell]

The Forum ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ on facebook is against moral values and mutual respect for all cultures.

No it isn't.

This forum contains graffiti including sexual images,

Hmm...
I did not see any sexual images.

defamatory slogans

This is so subjetive a claim as to be completely worthless.

and images containing extreme gore depicting the Prophet of Islam.

Hmm..
Did not see any of these either.

Are you sure it is the Facebook Group you are whining about?

Despite over 20000 reports against this group as hate speech/racism, facebook has not removed this group during the past month.

That is because the group does not violate Facebook rules, Statelaws, or federal laws.

Link to group: facebook.com/pages/Everybody-Draw-Mohammed-Day/121369914543425?ref=ts

Thanks for the link.

it is also a breach of 3 different laws within the United States that restrict freedom of Speech w.r.t. rights of individuals regarding ethnicity, race and religion. Facebook qualifies for a lawsuit if it does not remove this group before the 20th of may 2010, by US law.

This is either complete ignorance of US Laws or a bold faced lie.

Details of the legal practicalities can be seen here:
Link: zohaibhisam.com/?p=185

I could care less about how other countries bow down and kiss the *** of Islam.
But the fact remains that the group does not violate any law in the USA.

People from all religions and races should refrain from exercising free speech in defamatory hate statements, hate crimes and incitement to violence.

I completely agree.

Mutual respect for each others beliefs and sanctity of all religions should be kept intact on all social forums to ensure we bridge gaps between all men, instead of aggravating relations more.

Really?
How do you think you are going to get that to happen?
Do we completely remove anything someone finds offensive?
Why bother with forums at all if you remove everything that someone whines about?

Genuine efforts towards removing such communities, be they against any religion, is our duty as responsible individuals.

If you feel it is your duty to get it removed, by all means do so.

Ideas for better, responsible regulation of content over facebook and other social networks would be greatly appreciated.

How about you stop going out of your way to be offended?

That in and of itself would be a huge major step in the right direction.

 

[McBell]

This forum contains graffiti including sexual images,

Hmm...
I did not see any sexual images.

Well.
I have to say that I stand to be corrected.
There are sexual images with in said group.

 

[no-body]

No, it's not beside the point. The freedom of speech that allows one person to behave like a douche is the same freedom of speech that allows someone else to say "hey, you're being a douche".

Of course, but free speech does not include death threats or implying that something bad is going to happen if you don't stop.

 

[Riverwolf]

Tanuki,
Free speech is all or nothing, hence the 'free' part. So you are against free speech then?

There's plenty you are not legally allowed to say, such as yelling "fire" in a crowded building.

So much for "all or nothing," which is a stance that I don't believe in in ANY case.

 

[Vietta]

Of course I understand that, but it's beside the point. Do you understand that you don't get to dictate to others what constitutes a 'good idea'?

Just because you or anyone else doesn't like something that is being said doesn't give you the right to enforce your view on others.

Just because you're free to say something doesn't mean you should. There's this little thing called tact. If you don't know what it is, I'll define it for you.

Tact-adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others or with difficult issues

That being said, I think we all need to exercise some tact in this thread as some of us are seeming to post only to have unintelligent arguments.

As for the 'freedom of speech is all or nothing' idea that was posted, I agree 100%. You cannot say you believe in free speech until you allow someone to say things that offend you to all hell and make your skin crawl. Allowing people to offend you shows the respect for the first amendment, just as arguing with the people who offend you shows respect for the first amendment. However, arguing without providing any evidence or indication of intelligent thought isn't free speech, its stupidity and it made you look like an idiot. If you want to argue, use your big boy/girl words and act like the adult you want to be treated like. Stupid is cute on a toddler, but one you reach the double digits stupidity is something to be abhorred.

 

[Badran]

Badran what do you make of some of the icons I presented earlier in this thread of Jesus and Muhammad that are clearly Islamic icons?

I don't know what you think it means Yosef.

If you mean, how are Muslims objecting to this when there are Islamic Icons of the prophet floating around. Then here is the thing, i don't know wether these pictures are Islamic or not, i don't know when and where they were made, i don't know who made them, and i don't know why are they still floating around.

But in all Islamic countries(I think), there are no drawings or representations of the prophet (pbuh), so it is obvious that we don't support it.

 

[.lava]

But in all Islamic countries(I think), there are no drawings or representations of the prophet (pbuh), so it is obvious that we don't support it.

yes, absolutely

.

 

[Badran]

yes, absolutely

.

Thanks, i wasn't sure.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'm not sure where these icons came from either, I just know they are listed as coming from Islamic artists.

 

[AxisMundi]

The Forum ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ on facebook is against moral values and mutual respect for all cultures. This forum contains graffiti including sexual images, defamatory slogans and images containing extreme gore depicting the Prophet of Islam. Despite over 20000 reports against this group as hate speech/racism, facebook has not removed this group during the past month.

Link to group: facebook.com/pages/Everybody-Draw-Mohammed-Day/121369914543425?ref=ts

it is also a breach of 3 different laws within the United States that restrict freedom of Speech w.r.t. rights of individuals regarding ethnicity, race and religion. Facebook qualifies for a lawsuit if it does not remove this group before the 20th of may 2010, by US law.

Details of the legal practicalities can be seen here:
Link: zohaibhisam.com/?p=185

People from all religions and races should refrain from exercising free speech in defamatory hate statements, hate crimes and incitement to violence. Mutual respect for each others beliefs and sanctity of all religions should be kept intact on all social forums to ensure we bridge gaps between all men, instead of aggravating relations more. Genuine efforts towards removing such communities, be they against any religion, is our duty as responsible individuals. Ideas for better, responsible regulation of content over facebook and other social networks would be greatly appreciated.

Free Speech means sometimes looking the other way when someone says something you don't agree with.

Free Speech doesn't end just because someone gets offended.

And religious freedom in no way bestows a right to anyone to quash or otherwise restrict the rights of other people.

As long as there is no illegal images (child porn, etc) and as long as there is no cvall to commit illegal acts (murder, vandalism, etc.) you peeps are SOL, I'm afraid.

Don't like the site, don't log onto it...

And don't advertise it either, as you did above.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Of course, but free speech does not include death threats or implying that something bad is going to happen if you don't stop.

I'm not threatening anyone; Satans_Serrated_Edge addressed his comment to me specifically.

 

[Badran]

I don't think it actually is intended mainly as an insult. I'm sure a good number of the people that joined it did so for that reason, but from what I gather, it just originated as a protest against the taboo of depicting the prophet. If that's case, I see no problem with it. If you're offended by it... do like I do with foxnews.. just don't go to it.

I am not suggesting that facebook should remove the group or anything, and of course i will not go to it.

The thing is, i don't understand how you can see that making such a group, even if it is a protest, as a good thing. Especially when the drawings aren't all respectful. It's a wrong reaction. They are not just trying to make sure that Muslims see that they can draw Muhammad (pbuh) if they want, they are also trying to bother Muslims.

I mean what about all the Muslims that didn't make death threats or any kind of reaction to the subject, they too are going to be insulted.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

The Forum ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ on facebook is against moral values and mutual respect for all cultures. This forum contains graffiti including sexual images, defamatory slogans and images containing extreme gore depicting the Prophet of Islam. Despite over 20000 reports against this group as hate speech/racism, facebook has not removed this group during the past month.

Link to group: facebook.com/pages/Everybody-Draw-Mohammed-Day/121369914543425?ref=ts

it is also a breach of 3 different laws within the United States that restrict freedom of Speech w.r.t. rights of individuals regarding ethnicity, race and religion. Facebook qualifies for a lawsuit if it does not remove this group before the 20th of may 2010, by US law.

Details of the legal practicalities can be seen here:
Link: zohaibhisam.com/?p=185

People from all religions and races should refrain from exercising free speech in defamatory hate statements, hate crimes and incitement to violence. Mutual respect for each others beliefs and sanctity of all religions should be kept intact on all social forums to ensure we bridge gaps between all men, instead of aggravating relations more. Genuine efforts towards removing such communities, be they against any religion, is our duty as responsible individuals. Ideas for better, responsible regulation of content over facebook and other social networks would be greatly appreciated.

Jeezus freakin christ I am sick of all the dam whining and crying over drawing Muhammad. Everybody needs to get the hell over it. The radicals needs to get over it. They act crazy, and people laugh at them. People try to prove a point to them that... what the hell are you going to do? You can't control everyone in the world! We should be able to have the freedom to draw whatever we want! Oh look we are going to have everyone spite you on the same day! What are you going to do? Nuke the world?!

It was to prove a point that the radicals need to get the hell over it, and everybody makes a big whine fit over that! Everybody needs to shut the hell up. Both the people poking at the radicals, and the radicals threatening to kill everybody. It's a big dam radical escalation over something that usually wouldn't be trivial unless it were on a playground.

 

[Badran]

Jeezus freakin christ I am sick of all the dam whining and crying over drawing Muhammad. Everybody needs to get the hell over it. The radicals needs to get over it. They act crazy, and people laugh at them. People try to prove a point to them that... what the hell are you going to do? You can't control everyone in the world! We should be able to have the freedom to draw whatever we want! Oh look we are going to have everyone spite you on the same day! What are you going to do? Nuke the world?!

It was to prove a point that the radicals need to get the hell over it, and everybody makes a big whine fit over that! Everybody needs to shut the hell up. Both the people poking at the radicals, and the radicals threatening to kill everybody. It's a big dam radical escalation over something that usually wouldn't be trivial unless it were on a playground.

No body is whining about it. Everybody knows what it's for. That's not the point.

The only thing which is being pointed out, is that just because some radicals made death threats or whatever, doesn't mean you should insult the entire Muslim community by making a day for doing something that bothers all Muslims, when most Muslims haven't done anything about that.

It sure might be easy for you to see that it's not worth it, or that this is a trivial thing. For me, when there is a day, when every body is going to have a party Drawing my prophet, and sometimes in very disrespectful images, the least i deserve is to be able to point out my disagreement with that.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

No body is whining about it. Everybody knows what it's for. That's not the point.

The only thing which is being pointed out, is that just because some radicals made death threats or whatever, doesn't mean you should insult the entire Muslim community by making a day for doing something that bothers all Muslims, when most Muslims haven't done anything about that.

It sure might be easy for you to see that it's not worth it, or that this is a trivial thing. For me, when there is a day, when every body is going to have a party Drawing my prophet, and sometimes in very disrespectful images, the least i deserve is to be able to point out my disagreement with that.

Well.... now that you put it that way, I actually do understand how nice muslims would be upset and want to put a stop to it. Although I have to ask, why has the explosive actions of the radical muslims not stirred such a reaction in the nice muslim community prior? No one seems to actually try to DO anything about anything unless it is in regards to the radicals, or in this particular case with good cause, the nice muslims getting upset.

There is a tantrum involving explosions and everyone gives the tantrum makers what they want. Meanwhile, no one seems to want to address the fact that the tantrum should have never involved explosions. Instead it's more like, give the child what they want before there are explosions... which is completely absurd.

Keep in mind as well, that the everybody draw muhammad day was directed at the crazies. I seriously doubt there was any ill will towards any muslim who does not feel an artist should be killed for including muhammad in their art.

I know that doesn't make it right. I just had to say...

If I were a nice muslim, I would ignore it. But that's just me. Let the artists and the radicals hash it out.