Remove ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ from Facebook

[Badran]

Well.... now that you put it that way, I actually do understand how nice muslims would be upset and want to put a stop to it. Although I have to ask, why has the explosive actions of the radical muslims not stirred such a reaction in the nice muslim community prior? No one seems to actually try to DO anything about anything unless it is in regards to the radicals, or in this particular case with good cause, the nice muslims getting upset.

There is a tantrum involving explosions and everyone gives the tantrum makers what they want. Meanwhile, no one seems to want to address the fact that the tantrum should have never involved explosions. Instead it's more like, give the child what they want before there are explosions... which is completely absurd.

Of course you are right, I don't think they should oblige the radicals requests, especially considering the way they are asking. I just think that this reaction was a bit over the top, just like those radical's reaction was completely over the top considering southpark. The thing is, there must be a better way to handle this.

Also i said in an earlier post that they shouldn't remove the group from facebook, because i believe they are entitled to do this if they want to. However, like i told you i was just discussing wether or not this is the best way to handle this.

Keep in mind as well, that the everybody draw muhammad day was directed at the crazies. I seriously doubt there was any ill will towards any muslim who does not feel an artist should be killed for including muhammad in their art.

I know that doesn't make it right. I just had to say...

If I were a nice muslim, I would ignore it. But that's just me. Let the artists and the radicals hash it out.

Thanks, and that is actually what i'll do.

 

[YmirGF]

Thanks, and that is actually what i'll do.

That is good to hear. What puzzles me so is that if I followed a religion that I knew was the one true religion it wouldn't bother me in the slightest what any naysayers did or said because I would understand that it is I that would have the last laugh. I think those who get upset over this kind of thing are doing so because they do not really believe their own stories. In other words, their faith is very weak.

 

[Badran]

That is good to hear. What puzzles me so is that if I followed a religion that I knew was the one true religion it wouldn't bother me in the slightest what any naysayers did or said because I would understand that it is I that would have the last laugh. I think those who get upset over this kind of thing are doing so because they do not really believe their own stories. In other words, their faith is very weak.

That's true. People shouldn't worry much about what about what others say if they know they are correct. We kinda take it personally when it comes to the prophet though. He represents so much to us, that it's hard for us not to feel bad about it.

Those of us believers who get bothered and touchy about their faith in general, and can't accept criticism, and those who overreacts to the situation here, i think perfectly fits your description.

 

[Father Heathen]

Amidst all this juicy drama, perhaps now is the time to admit that I have a sweet tooth for tears. So shed them for now I thirst.

 

[Father Heathen]

Let's take religion out of this.

My friend's stepsister has a phobia of buttons (not Buttons*, but buttons - the plain old clothing fastener). When she sees them, she experiences major anxiety and fear - it's a very unpleasant experience for her.

Now... recognizing that this is a completely irrational fear, and acknowledging that she's going to run into buttons in her daily life and will have to figure out some way to cope with that, do you think she deserves to have people deliberately confront her with buttons just to work her up?

Wouldn't exposure to buttons help your friend's stepsister overcome her phobia? Wouldn't "protecting" her from buttons only serve to compound and reinforce her illness?

 

[Father Heathen]

In most places those things have been banned. Where were you?

I wasn't aware that racial stereotypes, as distasteful as they are, were subject to legal repercussions. Also, I'm sorry that this subject has caused you as much emotional distress as it has, my friend. In all sincerity, I wish you fast recovery.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wouldn't exposure to buttons help your friend's stepsister overcome her phobia?

It hasn't so far. Why would I expect that a course of action that's been futile so far would suddenly become successful?

Wouldn't "protecting" her from buttons only serve to compound and reinforce her illness?

Wouldn't it be better to leave these sorts of decisions to her psychiatrist/psychologist (edit: and to her herself)?

Do you dispense "treament" to people without their asking for it to everyone, or do you only do this for people with psychological ailments?

 

[gnostic]

How can you offend a religion? Do religion have feeling?

How can you offend a prophet? Is the prophet even alive to be offended?

How can you offend a god? Is god not supposed to be "above it all"?

Muhammad is Muslims' prophets, not everyone else's. Why do Muslims think we (non-Muslims) should we respect a prophet that we don't believe in or accept?

 

[Badran]

How can you offend a religion? Do religion have feeling?

That's right you can't offend a religion.

How can you offend a prophet? Is the prophet even alive to be offended?

True, you can't offend the prophet.

How can you offend a god? Is god not supposed to be "above it all"?

True again, you can't offend God.

Muhammad is Muslims' prophets, not everyone else's. Why do Muslims think we (non-Muslims) should we respect a prophet that we don't believe in or accept?

You certainly don't have to hold respect for him. We don't expect others to respect him, i don't know why you'd think that.

Not having respect for him, is different from insulting him though.

 

[gnostic]

Not having respect for him, is different from insulting him though.

Insulting a prophet is a pointless act, because a dead prophet can't feel the insult. So why should this in anyway affect the Muslims.

There has been more offensive materials to Jesus than there ever was with Muhammad, in this century and in the last century, but you don't see Christians having violent riots or threatening death to a whole lot of people who did not draw the drawings. There tonnes more satires of Jesus, Moses and Abraham than the little we have seen, and they have never cause violent reactions.

There was incident here in Melbourne, where the artist depicted the crucified Jesus in urine. It did cause protests among the Christians for it to be banned, but nothing on the level of the Danish cartoons. I am not a Christian, but I do find this so-called artwork is absolutely disgusting, but reacting to it, you are actually giving the sort of attention that disgusting artist wanted.

Too many Muslims are oversensitive to something they have no control over. And some of these Muslims react quite badly.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Does anyone else find it funny that we haven't heard a single response from the OP'er? Seeing as how the only other Muslim posters in the thread have agreed that the facebook group has every right to do what they doing (even though it's a bit crass), and that they're just going to ignore it... I'm not sure what's left to discuss.

Seems like this one is pretty much wrapped up to me...

 

[Badran]

Insulting a prophet is a pointless act, because a dead prophet can't feel the insult. So why should this in anyway affect the Muslims.

There has been more offensive materials to Jesus than there ever was with Muhammad, in this century and in the last century, but you don't see Christians having violent riots or threatening death to a whole lot of people who did not draw the drawings. There tonnes more satires of Jesus, Moses and Abraham than the little we have seen, and they have never cause violent reactions.

There was incident here in Melbourne, where the artist depicted the crucified Jesus in urine. It did cause protests among the Christians for it to be banned, but nothing on the level of the Danish cartoons. I am not a Christian, but I do find this so-called artwork is absolutely disgusting, but reacting to it, you are actually giving the sort of attention that disgusting artist wanted.

Too many Muslims are oversensitive to something they have no control over. And some of these Muslims react quite badly.

Yes, Muslims completely overreact, and they shouldn't. I'm completely against death threats or violence considering this matter. Also of course obviously i agree with you, that disrespecting prophets of other people just for fun, is absolutely disgusting.

It is mainly the idea of this "draw Muhammad day" that bothers me. If you read my earlier posts, you would see my point on this part.

 

[Riverwolf]

Does anyone else find it funny that we haven't heard a single response from the OP'er? Seeing as how the only other Muslim posters in the thread have agreed that the facebook group has every right to do what they doing (even though it's a bit crass), and that they're just going to ignore it... I'm not sure what's left to discuss.

Seems like this one is pretty much wrapped up to me...

Oh, I, too, agree that they have every right. And since the day is over, I, too, think this thread is wrapped up.

 

[nomadchild]

I still think that the OP'er should respond... I would like to hear more from this... Confused... Individual. Oh well I guess it is wrapped up..

 

[gnostic]

Also of course obviously i agree with you, that disrespecting prophets of other people just for fun, is absolutely disgusting.

No, you've slightly misunderstood me.

If an artist was to draw or make image of Jesus or Muhammad, or other prophets, then use urine, gut, excrement on the images, then I'd agree with you wholeheartedly, that it is utterly distateful and disgusting.

But on the other hand, simple cartoons, I don't feel the same way. Cartoonists, especially satirists or caricaturists, should be allowed to draw in any public figure. Public figures such as political leaders, politicians, monarchs, celebrities, scientists. And because religious figures are also public figures, then such cartoons should be allowed to be drawn.

Satires have been used since Aristophanes' time, to protest against fellow Athenian political leaders, wrote plays with these leaders as one of his characters. Goya drawn caricatures of the Spanish ruling family, as did Honore Daumier drawn caricatures of the French political leaders and monarchs of his time. There have been tonnes of spiteful cartoons of Charles Darwin in his time. And for good reasons, everyone including political leaders and religious figures should not be above the law.

Satires and caricatures are non-violent protests and ridicules of those (public figures) who think above themselves. And some of them are quite funny. Whether it be drawings or writings, such things should be allowed, whether you or I like them or not.

Many politicians and celebrities either ignore it, or even laugh over them. If they are offended by it, then that's their problems, because they have the rights feel "offended". But to ban it or threaten the artists, authors or editors with violence is not right, PERIOD!

Why should dead prophets, messiah, or saints should be immune to satires and caricatures?

The Everybody Draw Muhammad Day is protest against Muslims who dare threaten the freedom of expressions. It's non-violent expression, and actually physically harmless.

Seriously, how many times have you seen Muslims violently protested, by creating effigy of George Bush, before trampling on them or setting alight. Compare this type of protest to the cartoons being drawn, I think the cartoons are less harmless and less destructive.

Truth being told, I actually hate Bush's gut, but I don't threaten to kill him. I would have laughed out loud, had he being hit by the shoes that were thrown at him (and think that Bush deserve to be hit), but it was wrong for this fellow to do so. Protest could have been done in less harmful way.

 

[Badran]

No, you've slightly misunderstood me.

If an artist was to draw or make image of Jesus or Muhammad, or other prophets, then use urine, gut, excretments on the images, then I'd agree with you wholeheartedly, that it is utterly distateful and disgusting.

But on the other hand, simple cartoons, I don't feel the same way. Cartoonists, especially satirists or caricaturists, should be allowed to draw in any public figure. Public figures such as political leaders, politicians, monarchs, celebrities, scientists. And because religious figures are also public figures, then such cartoons should be allowed to be drawn.

Satires have been used since Aristophanes' time, to protest against fellow Athenian political leaders, wrote plays with these leaders as one of his characters. Goya drawn caricatures of the Spanish ruling family, as did Honore Daumier drawn caricatures of the French political leaders and monarchs of his time. There have been tonnes of spiteful cartoons of Charles Darwin in his time. And for good reasons, everyone including political leaders and religious figures should not be above the law.

Satires and caricatures are non-violent protests and ridicules of those (public figures) who think above themselves. And some of them are quite funny. Whether it be drawings or writings, such things should be allowed, whether you or I like them or not.

Many politicians and celebrities either ignore it, or even laugh over them. If they are offended by it, then that's their problems, because they have the rights feel "offended". But to ban it or threaten the artists, authors or editors with violence is not right, PERIOD!

Why should dead prophets, messiah, or saints should be immune to satires and caricatures?

The Everybody Draw Muhammad Day is protest against Muslims who dare threaten the freedom of expressions. It's non-violent expression, and actually physically harmless.

Seriously, how many times have you seen Muslims violently protested, by creating effigy of George Bush, before trampling on them or setting alight. Compare this type of protest to the cartoons being drawn, I think the cartoons are less harmless and less destructive.

Truth being told, I actually hate Bush's gut, but I don't threaten to kill him. I would have laughed out loud, had he being hit by the shoes that were thrown at him (and think that Bush deserve to be hit), but it was wrong for this fellow to do so. Protest could have been done in less harmful way.

If I remember correctly, Muhammad had ordered assassination of Jewish poet (I forgot what his name was). I think that was wrong, regardless what this poet may have wrote. Seriously can you blame the poet for writing what he did, after Muhammad had destroyed the Banu Quraysh tribe?

Well, that's your opinion and i respect it. Also, if i hadn't made it clear, let me tell you one more time this:

1) I'm against removing the facebook group, or stoping the southpark episode, to reside to pressure by radical Muslims. If it will be, i'd hope the creators would stop it out of respect, not residing to death threats.

2) I'm completely against the violent reaction done by Muslims in anyway concerning such matters.

3) My main problem with the facebook group, is that even if it is intended to show the radicals that they can't be stopped. It is still a bad way to make a point, because most Muslims haven't done anything hurtful or made any threats to anyone. So they don't deserve to be bothered like this, they don't deserve to watch while others have a party drawing their prophet and sometimes in disrespectful manner. However, again i don't think it should be removed.

As for the prophet's story, i have never ever heard such story or anything like it on the prophet (pbuh). Even if it exists, if you read my posts in other threads, the stories about Muhammad aren't facts. It's history, including some wrong information. Muhammad (pbuh) would never order the killing of someone for something like that.

 

[gnostic]

As for the prophet's story, i have never ever heard such story or anything like it on the prophet (pbuh). Even if it exists, if you read my posts in other threads, the stories about Muhammad aren't facts. It's history, including some wrong information. Muhammad (pbuh) would never order the killing of someone for something like that.

There are actually 2 poets that I know of, who were assassinated. The one I've mentioned wrote erotic poem about a Muslim woman. The other wrote about Muhammad himself.

It's not that I believe this story, but the only sources of Muhammad's history come from Muhammad's followers, Muslim historians and Muslim biographers. We don't have any sources to what the Jews have to say about it. The so-called history of Muhammad is one-sided.

 

[Badran]

There are actually 2 poets that I know of, who were assassinated. The one I've mentioned wrote erotic poem about a Muslim woman. The other wrote about Muhammad himself.

It's not that I believe this story, but the only sources of Muhammad's history come from Muhammad's followers, Muslim historians and Muslim biographers. We don't have any sources to what the Jews have to say about it. The so-called history of Muhammad is one-sided.

Just because assumably it is one sided, doesn't mean it's all true, and doesn't mean it's all false.

 

[Vietta]

How can you offend a religion? Do religion have feeling?

How can you offend a prophet? Is the prophet even alive to be offended?

How can you offend a god? Is god not supposed to be "above it all"?

Muhammad is Muslims' prophets, not everyone else's. Why do Muslims think we (non-Muslims) should we respect a prophet that we don't believe in or accept?

This is a very good way to put things.

 

[Sahar]

And so what if it IS only about ******* people off (which it obviously isn't to anyone with half a brain, but anyway..), so what? Are we to wear kid gloves 24\7 to accommodate all the poor butthurt whiners of the world now?

I think these crybabys need to grow a set and reallize people will always have their own opinions, and they may not like them all. I for one will never stop speaking my mind to accommodate some peoples fragile sensibilities.

Over the internet anyway.

You know absolutely nothing about what I would or would not do or say in real life, so you can keep your smug little backhanded bs comments to yourself, thanks.

I can read people pretty well.



LOL! Just speaking my mind man. Sorry if that messes with your fragile sensibilities.

Hey, Im not about to let some blowhard that doesnt know me from adam make personal barbs about me unchecked. I guess I should have just reported it.
Quagmire=reported and ignored. Good riddance.

I think what Quagmire showed us here is interesting and shouldn't pass easily.

I think these crybabys need to grow a set and reallize people will always have their own opinions, and they may not like them all. I for one will never stop speaking my mind to accommodate some peoples fragile sensibilities.

It's amazing that you couldn't apply this to yourself. As long as this concerns other people, "I don't give a damn" but when it comes to you, you whined like them. Not only this but you hinted that you want to report the person who didn't "accommodate your fragile sensibilities" and to ignore him as well.
Now if you asked me I would say that you don't have a sense of humor; I thought what Quagmire said was funny and you were overreacting and acting irrationally.

I have noticed this many times, that the same people who sarcastically wonder "oh, why don't Muslims have any sense of humor?!" and "why are they whining like this?!", can be easily ****** off, for silly things but the main difference that such persons don't have a sacred figure in their lives except maybe themselves. So when their selves become confronted with what might be offensive, they get really angry.

I don't blame any Muslim who thinks that he (or she) want to boycott Facebook or ask for the removal of such empty hateful groups because as lava says; it's a human thing.
True, that sometimes there is unacceptable behavior coming from some Muslims but I can understand it as well. Because it's not about drawing Muhammad only, it's about the invasion of Iraq, it's about supporting Israel unconditionally, it's about the minarets ban, hijab ban, etc.