Report reveals the truth behind the international dupe on Palestinian poverty.

[Shusha]

It's due to their terrorism. You can't simply support the Palestinians because you feel like it. In order to support something you need to have something that you are against. In this case it is the suffering that Zionists cause on Palestinians. It is a different matter if someone hates Jews just for being Jews.

But opposing suffering is not the same thing as opposing the concept of Zionism.

 

[Lyndon]

No Jews oppose Zionism. A tiny percentage oppose the timing and conditions required for the expression of Zionism. Which is altogether a different thing.

Meantime, talk to me about how you can oppose self-determination for one group while supporting it for another and not be a hypocrite.

You really need to learn a bit more about Judaism before you write such misinformation. Zionism is a right wing philosophy espoused by only portion of Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

You really need to learn a bit more about Judaism before you write such misinformation.

Really? Enlighten me then. What teaching of Judaism opposes the concept of Zionism? Be specific.

 

[Gharib]

But opposing suffering is not the same thing as opposing the concept of Zionism.

Yes it is. Unless it is done in a peaceful and diplomatic way it is the same. And in this case it happened through force, terrorism, murder, expulsion etc.

Do you agree that the Syrian refugees who are fleeing their homes from war have a right to now go to Europe and do to them what Israel did and is doing to Palestine and the Palestinians?

Or let me relate it a little better to the Palestinian -Israeli case, if the people of Syria leave and decide to not come back for a few centuries, do they have a right to take back their land from whoever might own it some 3 centuries after because they fled war when they left?

 

[Shusha]

Gharib,

No. Opposing suffering is not the same as opposing self-determination. I can absolutely oppose Palestinians plunging knives into innocent Jews while still supporting Palestinian right to self-determination.

As the to second part of your post: Do you believe that ethnic cleansing is a viable way to transfer sovereignty of a territory and end a people's right to self-determination? I don't.

 

[Jedster]

Oh brother, everyone that opposes Zionism is and anti semite jew hater, yeah right, you have a Jewish anti semite posting in this thread even by that criteria.

Actually I was only referring to you in this instance. I get that impression from seeing you pop up when anything to do with Jews and /or Israel comes up and you are super negative and not helping towards any 'peace is the answer'.

I said 'I am never sure what people mean by the word Zionist; you are clearly a Jew hater that uses that word.'

So, what do you mean by Zionist? This is not a trick question.

 

[Gharib]

Gharib,

No. Opposing suffering is not the same as opposing self-determination. I can absolutely oppose Palestinians plunging knives into innocent Jews while still supporting Palestinian right to self-determination.

As the to second part of your post: Do you believe that ethnic cleansing is a viable way to transfer sovereignty of a territory and end a people's right to self-determination?

Maybe they aren't as innocent as you might think. Military service is mandatory in Israel for all it's citizens, those that are committing terrorism now will one day retire. Are they as innocent as you think? just because they have no one to answer for their terrorism it doesn't make them innocent in the near future when they retire. One of the first cases with the current surge of violence was when a couple were murdered in their car, the kids were left unharmed. You might want to rethink things a little.

Moreover, do you agree that Israel takes advantage of these unrest's to kill and jail as many Palestinians as possible or not?

As for your second part, no. That's why almost all Middle Eastern countries do not recognize Israel.

 

[Lyndon]

Anti Zionist Jews;

http://www.truetorahjews.org/qanda/demographics

 

[Lyndon]

Actually I was only referring to you in this instance. I get that impression from seeing you pop up when anything to do with Jews and /or Israel comes up and you are super negative and not helping towards any 'peace is the answer'.

I said 'I am never sure what people mean by the word Zionist; you are clearly a Jew hater that uses that word.'

So, what do you mean by Zionist? This is not a trick question.

Its simple. Peace is the answer and Zionists have been opposed to the peace process for years, almost half the Jewish population of Israel wants to live in peace, but the current Zionist government is dead set against making peace, that's why I'm so against them. I'm also dead set against ISIS and other sunni extremists, because they don't want peace and will only settle for war. Israel behaves no better than the terrorists they oppose, if they want to lead, they have to lead by example, and killing 10 innocent Palestinians for every one Israeli that dies is not setting an example that deserves to lead.

 

[Shusha]

Anti Zionist Jews;

http://www.truetorahjews.org/qanda/demographics

You clearly have a shallow understanding of both your linked article and my post. Please begin by understanding what I mean by being opposed to the CONCEPT of Zionism and the conditions which one believes must be present before Zionism is expressed. Two different things.

 

[Shusha]

Maybe they aren't as innocent as you might think. Military service is mandatory in Israel for all it's citizens, those that are committing terrorism now will one day retire. Are they as innocent as you think? just because they have no one to answer for their terrorism it doesn't make them innocent in the near future when they retire. One of the first cases with the current surge of violence was when a couple were murdered in their car, the kids were left unharmed. You might want to rethink things a little.

Moreover, do you agree that Israel takes advantage of these unrest's to kill and jail as many Palestinians as possible or not?

As for your second part, no. That's why almost all Middle Eastern countries do not recognize Israel.

Uh. So you only oppose Palestinian suffering? And not Jewish suffering? Because, you know, the Jews are all guilty anyway?

No, I do not in any way agree that Israel "takes advantage" of the senseless attacks on Jews as an excuse to kill Palestinians.

And finally, if you agree that ethnic cleansing does not remove the right to self-determination and sovereignty over territory -- then you have just agreed to support Zionism. Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self-determination and sovereignty over historical territory.

 

[Lyndon]

Yes I am totally opposed to the Zionist concept of invading and occupying Palestine in the first place, that being said the Jews are there now and they have to learn to live in peace with their neighbors, their neighbors haven't been peaceful either, but the Israelis are not setting any good example of being peaceful, just the opposite. The recent bombing of Gaza was a worse atrocity than possibly all the Palestinian terrorism through Israel history, in terms of number of dead, there is no excuse.

 

[Lyndon]

Uh. So you only oppose Palestinian suffering? And not Jewish suffering? Because, you know, the Jews are all guilty anyway?

No, I do not in any way agree that Israel "takes advantage" of the senseless attacks on Jews as an excuse to kill Palestinians.

And finally, if you agree that ethnic cleansing does not remove the right to self-determination and sovereignty over territory -- then you have just agreed to support Zionism. Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self-determination and sovereignty over historical territory.

Cry me a river, the nerve of you trying to compare the Jewish suffering in Israel (not Germany) to the Palestinian suffering in their own land.

 

[Shusha]

Yes I am totally opposed to the Zionist concept of invading and occupying Palestine in the first place,

Okay. So your position is that once an ethnic group has been successfully cleansed from a territory, by force, they no longer have the right to self-determination and sovereignty over that land. And if they try to return they are invaders and occupiers.

 

[Lyndon]

If it happened over a hundred years ago, Yes. I mean seriously if other cultures and nationalities took the Zionist right of return seriously it would be total anarchy and war everywhere, what's so special about Jews that they deserve special privileges other races and nationalities are not given

 

[Shusha]

Cry me a river, the nerve of you trying to compare the Jewish suffering in Israel (not Germany) to the Palestinian suffering in their own land.

My point was that there is a difference between opposing suffering and opposing self-determination. I can oppose one (on both sides) while supporting the other (on both sides).

You, on the other hand, seem to oppose suffering, if its Palestinians and justify suffering if its Jews. And oppose self-determination if its Jews and support self-determination if its Palestinian. Again, how is this NOT hypocritical?

 

[Shusha]

If it happened over a hundred years ago, Yes.

Congratulations, you have just solved the entire conflict by enforcing a "might is right" rule. If one can remove the indigenous population and keep them out for a hundred years that population no longer has any rights. In a matter of a few years the Palestinians will have no rights whatsoever to any territory.

 

[Lyndon]

My point was that there is a difference between opposing suffering and opposing self-determination. I can oppose one (on both sides) while supporting the other (on both sides).

You, on the other hand, seem to oppose suffering, if its Palestinians and justify suffering if its Jews. And oppose self-determination if its Jews and support self-determination if its Palestinian. Again, how is this NOT hypocritical?

Sorry but I don't see that many Israeli Jews suffering, just Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

Sorry but I don't see that many Israeli Jews suffering, just Palestinians.

You continue to evade my argument, which is: there is a difference between opposing suffering and opposing self-determination for one group but not for the other.

Going to bed now. See ya in the morning.

 

[Jedster]

Its simple. Peace is the answer and Zionists have been opposed to the peace process for years, almost half the Jewish population of Israel wants to live in peace, but the current Zionist government is dead set against making peace, that's why I'm so against them. I'm also dead set against ISIS and other sunni extremists, because they don't want peace and will only settle for war. Israel behaves no better than the terrorists they oppose, if they want to lead, they have to lead by example, and killing 10 innocent Palestinians for every one Israeli that dies is not setting an example that deserves to lead.

What a load of garbage. I really feel sorry for you.
I read your profile and have suffered similar conditions to yourself so I give you leeway.
I see from your profile that you live under US-occupation Northern Mexico. No comment.


Edited to add: You still haven't answered my question. But never mind.