Republicans Hate College Now, Apparently

[Quetzal]

So, the "SJW" crowd that you refer to are merely dupes and panderers who advocate for ideals that most people agreed with already for decades. I consider it a form of political cowardice, since they're going after the "easy meat" in a shameless attempt to garner political capital and support. This is unfortunate, because when they really did want to activate for something meaningful (like Occupy Wall Street), it fizzled out badly because they had very little political understanding of what it means to actually fight against the establishment. They're basically resting on their own laurels, wanting to re-live past glories of the Civil Rights Movement and even the Civil War itself (since they've also been on this Confederate flag kick recently). They refuse to look towards the future, and that's where they've gone wrong. All they can do is look back on the past with fondness and sentimentality, but they don't have anything new to offer - which is exactly how all the banksters on Wall Street want them to be.

Just to be clear, when we are using the SJW label, are we referring to those obnoxious chumps who look for reasons to be needlessly offended? I think these are the folks @Rival was referring to as well. To add to the anecdotes, I did not experience too many of these folks when I was in college. A few existed, to be sure, but they were pretty few and far between.

 

[Stevicus]

Just to be clear, when we are using the SJW label, are we referring to those obnoxious chumps who look for reasons to be needlessly offended? I think these are the folks @Rival was referring to as well. To add to the anecdotes, I did not experience too many of these folks when I was in college. A few existed, to be sure, but they were pretty few and far between.

Maybe they're only a few, although from what I can gather (and I could be wrong, since I haven't been around the campus scene in a while), the people you're referring to seem to be able to operate with free rein with little to no opposition. I've observed that the tactics often used are ostensibly designed to denigrate and intimidate the opposition, which may be why people are too cowed to speak up and why the "SJW" types are able to operate with impunity.

A major problem with using this kind of approach is how the opposition can be expected to respond. It leads to a lot of fuss and feathers when those who virulently oppose the "SJWs" can get even nastier (such as that "GamerGate" thing which happened a few years ago). But by taking such a nasty attitude towards people in the middle with more moderate views, the "SJWs" alienate those who would otherwise support them when the chips are down. I've heard a lot of complaints about all the people who stayed home on Election Day and could have made a difference in the election.

This is something to think about. Never underestimate the human propensity to return spite with spite.

 

[Quetzal]

Maybe they're only a few, although from what I can gather (and I could be wrong, since I haven't been around the campus scene in a while), the people you're referring to seem to be able to operate with free rein with little to no opposition.

What actions should be taken to oppose them? Their free speech is just as protected as it is for other groups.

 

[Revoltingest]

Have you ever been to a uni campus? Perhaps liberals don't think it's liberal because liberal is 'normal' now. Unis are full of SJWS, feminists and ultra-liberals. Or, at least, in my experience.People will thus come out of these places thoroughly brainwashed.

The old echo chamber scenario, eh.

 

[Stevicus]

What actions should be taken to oppose them? Their free speech is just as protected as it is for other groups.

Speaking up would be a start. Being a voice of reason against a cacophony of malicious attitudes, as Rival was referring to in the thread about Social Conservatism. If people (particularly college students) aren't willing to discuss issues reasonably in an academic forum, then this should be pointed out. If all they can do is label people and throw out soundbites, then they reveal themselves as vacuous and shallow.

They're not the same as the 60s era hippies and Civil Rights marchers, since they had to have some kind of ethos to what they were doing. Plus, they really were fighting "the establishment" against huge odds, manifest opposition, and an intractable, bigoted society. As a result, they had to try harder - much harder - to gain the hearts and minds of the general public. Now that that battle has been largely won, the younger "SJWs" of today are trying to be copycats, but they don't have the same level of courage or moxie that their elder counterparts had. They have to have their "safe spaces," and while they're in their "safe spaces," they act like a bunch of spoiled kindergartners laughing about farting in class. They're making a mockery of serious issues that, at one time, people fought and died for.

This needs to be explained to them, if only they would listen.

 

[Quetzal]

Speaking up would be a start. Being a voice of reason against a cacophony of malicious attitudes, as Rival was referring to in the thread about Social Conservatism. If people (particularly college students) aren't willing to discuss issues reasonably in an academic forum, then this should be pointed out. If all they can do is label people and throw out soundbites, then they reveal themselves as vacuous and shallow.

They're not the same as the 60s era hippies and Civil Rights marchers, since they had to have some kind of ethos to what they were doing. Plus, they really were fighting "the establishment" against huge odds, manifest opposition, and an intractable, bigoted society. As a result, they had to try harder - much harder - to gain the hearts and minds of the general public. Now that that battle has been largely won, the younger "SJWs" of today are trying to be copycats, but they don't have the same level of courage or moxie that their elder counterparts had. They have to have their "safe spaces," and while they're in their "safe spaces," they act like a bunch of spoiled kindergartners laughing about farting in class. They're making a mockery of serious issues that, at one time, people fought and died for.

This needs to be explained to them, if only they would listen.

Why are there so many blanket assumptions about college students? Many of these are unfounded at worst and reflect only a minority at best. I have worked in higher ed for the better part of four years and was a five year college student before that. Either I have lucked out in regards to these endless masses of people you and @Rival seem to think there are or they simply don't exist in the quantity you think they do.

I firmly believe you are taking a minority and giving them a much louder voice than they have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Have you ever been to a uni campus? Perhaps liberals don't think it's liberal because liberal is 'normal' now. Unis are full of SJWS, feminists and ultra-liberals. Or, at least, in my experience.People will thus come out of these places thoroughly brainwashed.

And Conservatives, and Christians, and Libertarians, and so many others. Here, where I went, I couldn't even go to a Secular Student Alliance meeting without a Christian being there to tell me what my views "really are." Lots and lots of Christian groups thriving, but ones like the SSA or Philosophy Club, those were basically shut down because of a lack of/very low membership.

Common sense though ... that's not as great as a lot of people tend to assume. I'm particularly critical of people relying on what they see as "common sense" in the political sphere.

Any argument that claims "common sense" should automatically be shut down. This "common sense," as far as I can tell it's used to label something that a particular individual knows as something everyone knows, and has no consistency among different people. And of course it isn't even a real debate, position, rebuttal, nothing. Absolutely nothing more than "I think this is the way it should be" packaged with the arrogance of claiming "and everyone agrees with me."

 

[Quetzal]

And Conservatives, and Christians, and Libertarians, and so many others. Here, where I went, I couldn't even go to a Secular Student Alliance meeting without a Christian being there to tell me what my views "really are." Lots and lots of Christian groups thriving, but ones like the SSA or Philosophy Club, those were basically shut down because of a lack of/very low membership.

Correct and any campus is just as susceptible to this as they are to extreme liberal ideals. Point being, neither of these outliers warrants blanket statements and biases to college students/campuses as a whole. Despite what the media outlets might like you to believe.

 

[Erebus]

Just to be clear, when we are using the SJW label, are we referring to those obnoxious chumps who look for reasons to be needlessly offended? I think these are the folks @Rival was referring to as well.

That's the impression I got.

That said, I've seen some folks who consider anybody short of a full blown Nazi to be SJWs, so clarification is probably worthwhile.

 

[Stevicus]

Why are there so many blanket assumptions about college students? Many of these are unfounded at worst and reflect only a minority at best. I have worked in higher ed for the better part of four years and was a five year college student before that. Either I have lucked out in regards to these endless masses of people you and @Rival seem to think there are or they simply don't exist in the quantity you think they do.

I firmly believe you are taking a minority and giving them a much louder voice than they have.

I'm certainly willing to listen to other voices, too. As you said, everyone's free speech is protected, so everyone has the opportunity to speak up. You asked what can be done to oppose them, but then you say they're so few in number. If that's true, then it should be quite easy to stand up in opposition.

I'm not really addressing the issue of "how many" people actually fall into the category of "SJW." It's also a matter of the tactics and methods which are used and how it affects the overall political culture.

There is a perception regarding political partisanship and how deep and ingrained it has become. The extremists' voices seem to be getting louder, while the moderate voices are shrinking. The rhetoric has become more vicious and escalated. This isn't just my view; many are starting to notice just how bad it's getting out there from both sides of the spectrum.

 

[Quetzal]

I'm certainly willing to listen to other voices, too. As you said, everyone's free speech is protected, so everyone has the opportunity to speak up. You asked what can be done to oppose them, but then you say they're so few in number. If that's true, then it should be quite easy to stand up in opposition.

I'm not really addressing the issue of "how many" people actually fall into the category of "SJW." It's also a matter of the tactics and methods which are used and how it affects the overall political culture.

Again, you are making unfounded assumptions. They do not have a measurable affect on the "political culture" (whatever that means) of a campus. The political alignment is not determined by a minority.

There is a perception regarding political partisanship and how deep and ingrained it has become. The extremists' voices seem to be getting louder, while the moderate voices are shrinking. The rhetoric has become more vicious and escalated. This isn't just my view; many are starting to notice just how bad it's getting out there from both sides of the spectrum.

So why are we raising the troops against the "sjw" crowd when we should be raising the troops to all outlier/extremist populations. That is my point. This problem is not exclusive to liberal principles. It is not exclusive to college campuses. Finally, it is not exclusive to a single political ideology. So why is our discussion relentlessly focusing on it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Have you ever been to a uni campus? Perhaps liberals don't think it's liberal because liberal is 'normal' now. Unis are full of SJWS, feminists and ultra-liberals. Or, at least, in my experience.People will thus come out of these places thoroughly brainwashed.

So it's the existence of "SJWs, feminists and ultra-liberals" that offends you?

If so, prepare to stay offended. They have as much right to exist as you do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Either I have lucked out in regards to these endless masses of people you and @Rival seem to think there are or they simply don't exist in the quantity you think they do.

I firmly believe you are taking a minority and giving them a much louder voice than they have.

My bet is that you and she are seeing the exact same sorts of people, but the people you see as no big deal, she sees as oppressive leftists.

 

[Quetzal]

My bet is that you and she are seeing the exact same sorts of people, but the people you see as no big deal, she sees as oppressive leftists.

I have yet to see how this group is oppressive yet no one wants to approach the subject of extreme conservative groups promoting hate speech. Both are equally guilty of being outliers but only one is getting the broad end of the stick here.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have yet to see how this group is oppressive yet no one wants to approach the subject of extreme conservative groups promoting hate speech. Both are equally guilty of being outliers but only one is getting the broad end of the stick here.

That's the thing: @Rival, feel free to confirm or refute what I'm saying, but my impression is that she's saying that the mainstream is far more "left" than she would like, not that the "extreme left" has too much influence.

 

[Stevicus]

Again, you are making unfounded assumptions. They do not have a measurable affect on the "political culture" (whatever that means) of a campus. The political alignment is not determined by a minority.

The campus itself does not exist as a "bubble" outside of society. They are a part of society and very much a part of the political culture, whether they realize it or not. By "political culture," I'm referring to the general tone, mores, methods, and rhetoric which are part and parcel of how politics and political discussions generally operate.

So why are we raising the troops against the "sjw" crowd when we should be raising the troops to all outlier/extremist populations. That is my point. This problem is not exclusive to liberal principles. It is not exclusive to college campuses. Finally, it is not exclusive to a single political ideology. So why is our discussion relentlessly focusing on it?

I don't think that it is. I think both sides are being called out when they act in an extremist or malicious way. Nobody is getting a free pass here.

In some ways, since liberals and "SJWs" fancy themselves as more intelligent, better educated, more compassionate, and more enlightened than their opposition, then doesn't it stand to reason that they be held to the standard that they themselves have set in their own proclamations? In other words, do they practice what they preach?

I would hold the religious right to the same standard. They claim to be Christians and have ostensibly embraced the teachings of Christ, so I would hold them to their own self-proclaimed standard. Do they practice what they preach? Many of them don't, even if they may be a minority among Christians. They'll still be called out.

 

[Rival]

That's the thing: @Rival, feel free to confirm or refute what I'm saying, but my impression is that she's saying that the mainstream is far more "left" than she would like, not that the "extreme left" has too much influence.

There are some extremists, but yes this generally.

 

[Quetzal]

In some ways, since liberals and "SJWs" fancy themselves as more intelligent, better educated, more compassionate, and more enlightened than their opposition, then doesn't it stand to reason that they be held to the standard that they themselves have set in their own proclamations? In other words, do they practice what they preach?

Liberals and SJW's (in the manner in which we are discussing them) are not the same thing.

 

[Sapiens]

There are some extremists, but yes this generally.

That goes to precisely what I said earlier, smart educated people tend to be more liberal and stupid, uneducated people tend to make up the Republican base. That is not to say that there is an absolute one to one match, but in general it is true. Keep in mind that 93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are atheists.

 

[Quetzal]

For what it is worth, @Stevicus, I think we agree on more than we disagree. We are both against political extremism in a college setting. From here on out, I am just nit-picking.