• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Republicans Hate College Now, Apparently

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've explained it.
We're both opining.
You haven't explained anything. All you have done is make false or otherwise baseless assertions that merely express your irrational animus toward lawyers.

It is a fact, not a mere opinion, that you haven't cited a speck of evidence showing that lawyers are more criminal or less ethical than any other profession or the population in general. It is a fact, not a mere opinion, that the majority of American attorneys report performing pro bono work for people of limited means or organizations that support people of limited means, with an average of 71 hours in 2011 for all types of pro bono services.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
You make modern liberals sound as socially conservative as social conservatives.
Do I? For the most part, I think of myself as a liberal (of the modern sort), but it's somewhat tempered. I don't want big government, but I want government to be able to provide social assistance where needed. I am not anti-welfare, so much as I am government enabled "work for wages" sorts of programs, for those who are up to it. (In my home city of Toronto, there are signs in a multitude of parks that say "paths are not cleared of snow and ice in winter." We do this because these are cleaned only by unionized employees. My own tendency is to want to give that the finger, because there are undoubtedly a lot of people who'd love to earn money for that work -- and with the corollary benefit that lots more city folks could get some decent exercise in the dead of winter.)

I don't have any interest in how people want to live their private lives, nor in how they wish to worship, or not worship. I love other cultures, and my city has been recognized by the UN as the most multi-cultural and multi-linguistic city in the world -- and I love it. We celebrate every culture, and have one of the world's largest Pride celebrations, as well. Caribana, Festival of South Asia, Italian Corso, Hungarian and Polish streets festivals, Sikh and Hindu and Muslim festivals, Greek-inspired whole-weekend festival closing a major thoroughfare in July. And more, lots more. We have temples and mosques and churches and synagogues galore, and I've been to most of them. Love it all.

As long as people desire to live together peaceably and amicably and without disparaging others, I'm all for it.

But when anyone insists that I (or anyone else) must live by rules to which I or they do not adhere and are not interested in --then I get my back up.

One of the things I'm noticing more and more these days, which I think is unfortunate, is the effort in universities, both here and in the U.S., to stifle free speech -- especially if that speech is being made about matters of religion. This disturbs me. If there's anyplace in the world that free speech should be not only permitted but honoured -- indeed cherished -- it's in our places of learning. (In one of my university programs, I studied under a Catholic priest, and we got along very well. In fact, I walked out with a top mark, and the comment that my "exegesis is brilliant, and you're going to hell!" I thought it was funny, and I still cherish it.

I happen to believe in free market capitalism -- with just a slight caveat: business should also have rules to live by, just like the rest of us. I do not find that business is generally as constrained from doing harm to their communities as I would wish them to be. Look at the tailings ponds and environmental destruction of major mining and resource exploitation enterprises. If I left that kind of mess on the main street of Toronto, I'd be fined for it, at least. Justly so, in my view.

I dislike the idea of abortion used as birth control, but insist that (at least earlier in the pregnancy) a woman has the right to choose. I hope that choice is made with the help of the father, or of family, or even of church or social workers, but in the end, I insist it's hers. I support the right of the terminally ill to seek comfortable, dignified, physician-assisted death. It saddens me, but not nearly as much as watching somebody struggling to breathe, in desperate pain, and wondering why "God won't just take me now!" (And by the way, I deeply admire those others who, like Stephen Hawking, live with their pain. By their own choice, because who am I to decide for them?)

I want the laws of my land to permit me -- so long as I do no harm -- to live my own life as I choose to. And I want those same laws to allow you, Muhammed, Jaspreet, Ming Choi, and Yoshi to do the same. And the man and wife with 2 kids, and the husband and husband with none.

The "classical liberals" didn't like welfare at all, because they thought it encouraged indigence and reliance upon it. I think that to some extent, they were probably right. But I also know, beyond question of doubt, that there are those for whom there is no other way. Unfortunate, but I want my society to be there for them, too. (But as I said earlier, there are many who would not only benefit from "workfare," but would feel ennobled and empowered by it, as well -- and it would also add to their resume AND their sense of self-worth. What could possibly be wrong with that?

So, what am I? Liberal, conservative, idealistic, nuts?
 

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
Old Republicans probably hate college now because college seems to be creating more liberal thinking individuals than in the heyday of Republicans who could make their primitive ideas last centuries in government.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You haven't explained anything. All you have done is make false or otherwise baseless assertions that merely express your irrational animus toward lawyers.
Somebody sounds more than a little offended.
What are you...the patron saint of ambulance chasers?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Do I? For the most part, I think of myself as a liberal (of the modern sort), but it's somewhat tempered. I don't want big government, but I want government to be able to provide social assistance where needed. I am not anti-welfare, so much as I am government enabled "work for wages" sorts of programs, for those who are up to it. (In my home city of Toronto, there are signs in a multitude of parks that say "paths are not cleared of snow and ice in winter." We do this because these are cleaned only by unionized employees. My own tendency is to want to give that the finger, because there are undoubtedly a lot of people who'd love to earn money for that work -- and with the corollary benefit that lots more city folks could get some decent exercise in the dead of winter.)

I don't have any interest in how people want to live their private lives, nor in how they wish to worship, or not worship. I love other cultures, and my city has been recognized by the UN as the most multi-cultural and multi-linguistic city in the world -- and I love it. We celebrate every culture, and have one of the world's largest Pride celebrations, as well. Caribana, Festival of South Asia, Italian Corso, Hungarian and Polish streets festivals, Sikh and Hindu and Muslim festivals, Greek-inspired whole-weekend festival closing a major thoroughfare in July. And more, lots more. We have temples and mosques and churches and synagogues galore, and I've been to most of them. Love it all.

As long as people desire to live together peaceably and amicably and without disparaging others, I'm all for it.

But when anyone insists that I (or anyone else) must live by rules to which I or they do not adhere and are not interested in --then I get my back up.

One of the things I'm noticing more and more these days, which I think is unfortunate, is the effort in universities, both here and in the U.S., to stifle free speech -- especially if that speech is being made about matters of religion. This disturbs me. If there's anyplace in the world that free speech should be not only permitted but honoured -- indeed cherished -- it's in our places of learning. (In one of my university programs, I studied under a Catholic priest, and we got along very well. In fact, I walked out with a top mark, and the comment that my "exegesis is brilliant, and you're going to hell!" I thought it was funny, and I still cherish it.

I happen to believe in free market capitalism -- with just a slight caveat: business should also have rules to live by, just like the rest of us. I do not find that business is generally as constrained from doing harm to their communities as I would wish them to be. Look at the tailings ponds and environmental destruction of major mining and resource exploitation enterprises. If I left that kind of mess on the main street of Toronto, I'd be fined for it, at least. Justly so, in my view.

I dislike the idea of abortion used as birth control, but insist that (at least earlier in the pregnancy) a woman has the right to choose. I hope that choice is made with the help of the father, or of family, or even of church or social workers, but in the end, I insist it's hers. I support the right of the terminally ill to seek comfortable, dignified, physician-assisted death. It saddens me, but not nearly as much as watching somebody struggling to breathe, in desperate pain, and wondering why "God won't just take me now!" (And by the way, I deeply admire those others who, like Stephen Hawking, live with their pain. By their own choice, because who am I to decide for them?)

I want the laws of my land to permit me -- so long as I do no harm -- to live my own life as I choose to. And I want those same laws to allow you, Muhammed, Jaspreet, Ming Choi, and Yoshi to do the same. And the man and wife with 2 kids, and the husband and husband with none.

The "classical liberals" didn't like welfare at all, because they thought it encouraged indigence and reliance upon it. I think that to some extent, they were probably right. But I also know, beyond question of doubt, that there are those for whom there is no other way. Unfortunate, but I want my society to be there for them, too. (But as I said earlier, there are many who would not only benefit from "workfare," but would feel ennobled and empowered by it, as well -- and it would also add to their resume AND their sense of self-worth. What could possibly be wrong with that?

So, what am I? Liberal, conservative, idealistic, nuts?
Now you sound like one of those "compassionate conservatives".
The phrase is a blast from the past (Bush 1), but it seems applicable.
I'd throw in a pinch of "classical liberal" & smidgen of "libertarian
environmentalist" (neologism) too.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Now you sound like one of those "compassionate conservatives".
The phrase is a blast from the past (Bush 1), but it seems applicable.
I'd throw in a pinch of "classical liberal" & smidgen of "libertarian
environmentalist" (neologism) too.
"Libertarian environmentalist" eh? Well, though I'm not exactly a "breeder," if I were to have children, I think I might like the idea that when they got to be my age, they had air to breathe. Doesn't seem an overly-extravagant wish for the future of one's progeny, really.
 

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
"Libertarian environmentalist" eh? Well, though I'm not exactly a "breeder," if I were to have children, I think I might like the idea that when they got to be my age, they had air to breathe. Doesn't seem an overly-extravagant wish for the future of one's progeny, really.

According to Republicans, "That's something our future kin can take care of."

Eventually, unfortunately, that comment can only extend so far.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
"Libertarian environmentalist" eh? Well, though I'm not exactly a "breeder," if I were to have children, I think I might like the idea that when they got to be my age, they had air to breathe. Doesn't seem an overly-extravagant wish for the future of one's progeny, really.
Agree.
I'll add flora & faun diversity, natural spaces, clean water to the list of desirables.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
According to Republicans, "That's something our future kin can take care of."

Eventually, unfortunately, that comment can only extend so far.
Not only that, it's foolish! Once you can no longer breathe, there's not a lot of room for the effort it will take to correct the problem. Like it or not, there are at least a few things that must be thought about and acted upon in advance.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Could someone explain this to me?

"As recently as two years ago, most Republicans and Republican leaners held a positive view of the role of colleges and universities. In September 2015, 54% of Republicans said colleges and universities had a positive impact on the way things were going in the country; 37% rated their impact negatively.

By 2016, Republicans’ ratings of colleges and universities were mixed (43% positive, 45% negative). Today, for the first time on a question asked since 2010, a majority (58%) of Republicans say colleges and universities are having a negative effect on the way things are going in the country, while 36% say they have a positive effect.
"
From - Sharp Partisan Divisions in Views of National Institutions

I just... I can't comprehend how anyone could possibly see colleges and universities as a negative thing. Halp! Someone explain this to me! o_O
We are talking about a party that most often rejects evolution and climate change. Depending on the ratio of hardliner conservatives you'll get a portion of people rejecting higher education in any given religion or branch.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
For what it is worth, @Stevicus, I think we agree on more than we disagree. We are both against political extremism in a college setting. From here on out, I am just nit-picking. :D

I agree. Some of the confusion may be over terminology. It's only been the past few years that I've become acquainted with the term "SJW." I've always been a big believer in academic freedom, so I'm not really in favor of trying stifle the atmosphere of free expression.

I don't actually recall that my university ever banned someone from speaking.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
It's only been the past few years that I've become acquainted with the term "SJW." I've always been a big believer in academic freedom, so I'm not really in favor of trying stifle the atmosphere of free expression.
Yeah, whenever someone uses SJW I picture that obnoxious person who is offended for no reason.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yeah, whenever someone uses SJW I picture that obnoxious person who is offended for no reason.
th
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah, whenever someone uses SJW I picture that obnoxious person who is offended for no reason.

I think of the "Causeheads" from the movie PCU

EDIT: Found a video which might be relevant to the topic:

 
Top