Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

[BilliardsBall]

Jesus fulfilled hundreds of literal prophecies! I read the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach every single day and I don't remember a single one of those hundred prophecies you claim. Can you mention a single one to me? Even a single one I have missed. Can you remind me of one. I don't need any more. One is enough. Thanks!

David was surrounded in Psalm 22 by Gentiles, who stripped him of his clothing, gambled for his clothing, pierced his wrists and feet, etc. READ PSALM 22 for one prophecy.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I'm not angry with you or projecting anything. I encourage you to truly embrace the scriptures as your guide to life and the sum of all wisdom.

I do and that is why I am a Baha'i.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I do and that is why I am a Baha'i.

I appreciate your embracing our Oneness through Baha'i, but the scriptures of Jesus are not equivalent to the scriptures of, say, Islam. The Bible is THE guide to life and eternal life.

 

[leibowde84]

It's both.
He really did resurrect but not after he physically died.
And it is an allegory showing that the human condition is not hopeless.
We all have a savior within.

What leads you to believe this?

 

[leibowde84]

I appreciate your embracing our Oneness through Baha'i, but the scriptures of Jesus are not equivalent to the scriptures of, say, Islam. The Bible is THE guide to life and eternal life.

Beyond what the Bible claims about itself, what leads you to this belief?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I appreciate your embracing our Oneness through Baha'i, but the scriptures of Jesus are not equivalent to the scriptures of, say, Islam. The Bible is THE guide to life and eternal life.

That is why we have discussion on RF and threads like this; to determine what is true and what is false.

The scriptures of Islam and Christianity have many similarities. Where they differ relates to the time and place they were revealed, and the capacity of the people at the time.

 

[metis]

The Bible is THE guide to life and eternal life.

Assumption.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

What leads you to believe this?

I hope you don't mind me addressing your questions to another member ? I believe you are correct in questioning the validity of the various religions. The reason for skepticism when one chooses a religion over another is obvious in that we can't all be right! That fact however does nothing to stop me from feeling Christianity is the most valid religion. There are various reasons for my beliefs ranging from the accuracy of the bible, to experiencing a NDE (near death experience) and various fulfilled prophesy, to name a few.

 

[leibowde84]

I hope you don't mind me addressing your questions to another member ? I believe you are correct in questioning the validity of the various religions. The reason for skepticism when one chooses a religion over another is obvious in that we can't all be right! That fact however does nothing to stop me from feeling Christianity is the most valid religion. There are various reasons for my beliefs ranging from the accuracy of the bible, to experiencing a NDE (near death experience) and various fulfilled prophesy, to name a few.

Accuracy of the Bible?

 

[allfoak]

What leads you to believe this?

My experience.

 

[leibowde84]

My experience.

What experiences? I assume you didn't experience Jesus rising from the dead.

 

[Cephus]

Assumption.

Religious faith is all assumption and assertion. There is no evidence for any of it. It's just wishful thinking.

 

[CG Didymus]

In regards to the resurrection we need to consider God's will. Has the belief in a physically resurrected Jesus and belief in an afterlife with a heaven in the sky and hell below the earth been harmful? It has not. To the contrary it has aided greatly towards an understanding for the followers of Christ about the connection between this life and the next as well as reward and punishment for those that live a good life compared to those who would harm others. These images have been an enormous assistance. The only thing is, as with all models and ways of looking at life, there comes a time when we need to abandon the old for the new. Having a literal belief in these stories is now doing more harm than good and they have become a barrier to embracing a higher truth and a better way of looking at God's purpose for our lives. It is time for the harvest and to differentiate between the tares and the wheat as in Matthew 13. It is a new Divine Springtime.

In regards to the physical body I posted something along these lines earlier in this thread:

There are many other explanations for an empty tomb. The Bab, forerunner to Baha'u'llah was executed by a militia of 750 of His own countrymen. They dumped his body so it could not be used as a source of worship for His followers but they retrieved His body anyhow and for 50+ years it was carted around until finally being laid to rest on Mt Carmel Haifa also known as the mountain of Elijah.

The purpose of sharing the Bab's story is to demonstrate how much there was at stake for both those who loved and hated the Bab. Having access to His physical body was important for His followers and denying access the agenda for is enemies. I have no doubt that Jesus' remains are on the earth for flesh does not inherit the kingdom of God, and Heaven is not up in the sky where Jesus presumably ascended.

Christians for 2000 years have held the false hope of Jesus coming back and resurrecting the dead. If the Baha'i Faith is right, Christianity has never been the truth.

If Jesus' body rotted away and turned to dust all the gospel accounts of Him being alive are false and the NT is a lie.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Christians for 2000 years have held the false hope of Jesus coming back and resurrecting the dead. If the Baha'i Faith is right, Christianity has never been the truth.

If Jesus' body rotted away and turned to dust all the gospel accounts of Him being alive are false and the NT is a lie.

I think we've been down this road. No hoax or lies, rather the use of metaphor to convey spiritual meanings as Christ did.

So lets consider again Jesus physical ascension through the stratosphere. The escape velocity required for a human body to escape the earths atmosphere....over 25,000 miles per hour. Jesus body would have to be very special not to break up under those conditions.

The escape velocity from Earth is about 11.186 km/s (6.951 mi/s; 40,270 km/h; 25,020 mph) at the surface

Escape velocity - Wikipedia

Once freed from the earth limitation of gravity, where to from heaven. When I was growing up alpha Centauri was considered the nearest star being over 4.2 light years.

Alpha Centauri - Wikipedia

That means travelling 4.2 years at the speed of light. That is 4.2 years travelling at nearly 180,000 miles per hour to make it to this start system.

Speed of light - Wikipedia

What if heaven is elsewhere?

 

[Ben Avraham]

You will need to do two things, then: 1. Explain where you come by this special knowledge, that the prophets who said, "Pay attention, this is the Word of God," meant for us to not take their literal words. 2. Explain where you come by this special knowledge that the dead raised were rather cataleptic - while you're at it, perhaps you can explain the sun moving backwards, Abram and Sarai having children at 100 and 90, the creation in six days, etc. and the hundreds of other miracles. No one in history has "read" the Hebrew scriptures as you do.

This so-called special knowledge is not from the top of my head but from the Tanach if you read Numbers 12:6. "When a prophet of the Lord arises among you I'll make Myself known to him in a vision; I'll speak to him in a dream." First, prophetical language is metaphorical; then, given in a vision or dream, doubles the metaphorical reason. And my expertise in the effects of catalepsy comes from 30 years of hospital working and contact with death.

Regarding the sun, to be taken literally will cause only atheistic laughs at Theism. Any reader of Physics know a little of the drastic consequences of a stop of the sun or of earth for that matter. Then, you don't need that; the text itself in the Tanach explains that the ten steps moving back in the dial of Ahaz were an analogy to the recollection of ten years before when 185,000 Assyrians besieging Jerusalem died of probably a bubonic plague if you read II Kings 20 and Isaiah 37 and 38. Just before the coming of the Assyrians to attack Judah, King Hezekiah had deviated the water canals from outside to inside the walled city and left the outside of the city completely dry where the Assyrian armies
encamped without water and with high infestation of mice which contributed for the bubonic plague which is highly caused by dehydration and mice. That's the event that caused the mind of king Hezekiah to go ten steps/years back in time to understand that if HaShem did that, what was the malady of Hezekiah that HaShem could not heal?

Now, as Abraham and Sarai age (100 and 90) were concerned, it was part of ancient culture to honor chieftains with high age as an embellishment of their greatness. Probably, if you ask me, it is a safe assumption to think that Abraham was 60 and Sarai 50. Evidence of the fact is that after Sarah died, Abraham took another wife called Ketura who bore him 5 more children. At 100+!!! Not likely! Perhaps at 65. (Genesis 25:1,2)

 

[BilliardsBall]

Beyond what the Bible claims about itself, what leads you to this belief?

What the Bible claims about itself is testable and verifiable. I've tested and verified.

 

[leibowde84]

What the Bible claims about itself is testable and verifiable. I've tested and verified.

How is what the Bible Claims about being the only path to eternal life verifiable and testable?

 

[BilliardsBall]

That is why we have discussion on RF and threads like this; to determine what is true and what is false.

The scriptures of Islam and Christianity have many similarities. Where they differ relates to the time and place they were revealed, and the capacity of the people at the time.

But they further differ regarding facts and truth.

The Qu'ran explicitly mentions Jesus, teaching He is not the Son of God. The Bible teaches vice versa. They cannot both be true unless we will away logic as part of our "faith".

 

[BilliardsBall]

Assumption.

Testable fact. The Bible's truth claims may be tested. Once tested, verified, we have left assumptions behind.

Unfortunately for our conversations, however, you are making frequent assumptions, like "eyewitnesses differ in testimony in the Bible, so the Bible must be invalid."

Assumption 1: Eyewitnesses should collude until they agree 100%

Assumption 2: All of the eyewitnesses are wrong, where one or more of them could be true and a differing eyewitness could be false

Etc.

 

[leibowde84]

But they further differ regarding facts and truth.

The Qu'ran explicitly mentions Jesus, teaching He is not the Son of God. The Bible teaches vice versa. They cannot both be true unless we will away logic as part of our "faith".

Or, it can be acknowledged that Jesus being the "son of God" isn't important. The important part is following his example of love, generosity, helping others, equality, etc.