Well, for instance, on RF there is a wide and varied range of beliefs, faiths and religions. I do my best to read about as many as I can. People should be free to follow their beliefs. But where any resulting actions might be bad for others, or where the religion is being proselytised or 'sold', then, sure, questions and challenges seem fair on the open debate forums.
That is good that you are looking at many different beliefs and religions. I do not know whether you are searching for a belief or a religion but nobody should just accept a belief without investigating. I did not look at other religions before I became a Baha’i, but that is because I was not even looking for a religion when I became a Baha’i. I became a Baha’i because of the teachings and I was not concerned about God at that time. I later went back and investigated the Baha’i Faith more thoroughly and I looked at other religions, but came to discover that they did not have anything that the Baha’i Faith did not have and they had a lot that I could never believe in. So I know I did not make a mistake after all.
Anything is fair game on an open debate forum but I think people should be courteous. Baha'u'llah wrote that courtesy is the “Prince of Virtues.” Joking around is okay but there is no need to be facetious. Challenging something someone said is fair game but there is no need to be rude or confrontational.
OK....... and it's my perception that the 'Great Beings' and this thread are linked to the Bahai religion because of the 'stacking' or 'pyramid' effect, this thread supporting all through the Bahai belief that Jesus was not resurrected nor is he a God, there being no Trinity. Personall I don't think that Yeshua was resurrected or a God, although as a Deist I believe that both he and you are a part of God, because everything is God.
I did not know that deists believe that humans are part of God or that everything is God. That is what pantheistic religions believe. I thought deists believe that God did not have anything to do with His Creation after He created it, that God is not personal and does not communicate to humanity. Baha’is believe that God is forever separate from His Creation and that differs from Christian belief, since Christians believe that the Holy Spirit lives inside of them and that they are God’s Children who have a relationship with God, as in being part of a family.
I do not believe that we can have a relationship with God because that implies that we can be on the same level with God, a “partner” with God. The following passage explains the Baha’i position on this:
“And now concerning thy reference to the existence of two Gods. Beware, beware, lest thou be led to join partners with the Lord, thy God. He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory.”Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 192
How do you think anyone can have a “relationship” with an entity that is incomprehensible, exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived?
Well, it sure is problematic for me. A World controlled by 9 people who believe that their union is holy and can do no wrong, and somewhat difficult to remove from power, is a World exposed to insecurity. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
We don't all believe that a theocracy could be holy.
Well, it would be problematic if the UHJ had any plans to control the world, but the Baha'i Faith is non-political so that is an impossibility:
“The Faith which this order serves, safeguards and promotes is … essentially supernatural, supranational, entirely non-political, non-partisan, and diametrically opposed to any policy or school of thought that seeks to exalt any particular race, class or nation. It is free from any form of ecclesiasticism, has neither priesthood nor rituals, and is supported exclusively by voluntary contributions made by its avowed adherents. Though loyal to their respective governments, though imbued with the love of their own country, and anxious to promote at all times, its best interests, the followers of the Bahá’í Faith, nevertheless, viewing mankind as one entity, and profoundly attached to its vital interests, will not hesitate to subordinate every particular interest, be it personal, regional or national, to the over-riding interests of the generality of mankind, knowing full well that in a world of interdependent peoples and nations the advantage of the part is best to be reached by the advantage of the whole, and that no lasting result can be achieved by any of the component parts if the general interests of the entity itself are neglected….” The Promised Day Is Come, vi - vii
That looks like a problem, because the UHJ seems to have excommunicated or defamed some very honest and dedicated people in the past. There seems to be a lot of them. That's schism. And some seem to have been excluded because they delivered more facts about Baha’i than the UHJ liked, which suggests that the UHJ is holding back............ which it does seem to be doing.
I am glad to see you used the word “seems.”
As far as I know, the only reason a person can be declared a Covenant-Breaker is if they question the authority of the UHJ and/or they try to break away from the Faith and start their own Baha’i Faith. Sure, if you reads what is posted on the internet you are going to find a bunch of disgruntled ex-Baha’is, but without knowing what really happened it is not fair to assume they are telling the truth. Of course they are going to be biased. I have heard this claim that the UHJ is holding back and mostly in regard to the Writings that have not yet been translated into English, but there is a good explanation for that. I think what happens with these CBs is that their ego gets the best of them and they think they know more than the UHJ... The problem is that Baha’u’llah designated the UHJ as the ones to whom authority would be given and they are a voted into those positions; they do not appoint themselves.
Clearly Bahai is experiencing schisms all the time. There are about 3000 differing Christian Creeds and Churches, and in the distant future that may be the case with Bahai. There are less schisms in Islam, but even so these probably add up to about 50?
There are no schisms
within the Baha’i Faith. There is only one Baha’i Faith, the one that adheres to the Covenant of Baha’u’llah. All of those who broke away are Covenant-Breakers; they are not Baha’is. Why do you think they had to start their own religion? Ego.
The Golden Age? Can I invite you to review the list of horrific wars, genocides, injustices and mistakes of the last 170 years? Science has made the World a very dirty place as well, and Bahai missed the coming ecological results, at least I never heard of any direct reference to such.
There is no Bahai Golden Age.
Winter is coming!
This is only
the very beginning of the Golden Age of humanity that will last no less than 500,000 years. Think about 165 years in relation to that many years.
That's fine for Bahais to believe, but showing written promises to the World cannot prove anything.
All these beliefs don't seem to have produced a more holy lifestyle in the Bahais that I have known. I've known some naughty Bahais, you know.
You are correct that the written promises in the Baha’i Writings do not prove anything. We will only have proof when the promises play out in the world, but that is not going to happen overnight because whenever humans are involved, things move rather slowly.
You are also right about behavior of the Baha’is, for it they do not live up to their own teachings and follow their laws then they are no different from a Christian who does not live up to the teachings of Jesus. Along those lines, Shoghi Effendi wrote:
“Not by the force of numbers, not by the mere exposition of a set of new and noble principles, not by an organized campaign of teaching—no matter how worldwide and elaborate in its character—not even by the staunchness of our faith or the exaltation of our enthusiasm, can we ultimately hope to vindicate in the eyes of a critical and sceptical age the supreme claim of the Abhá Revelation. One thing and only one thing will unfailingly and alone secure the undoubted triumph of this sacred Cause, namely, the extent to which our own inner life and private character mirror forth in their manifold aspects the splendor of those eternal principles proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh.” Bahá’í Administration, p. 66
If you need little, and have enough, then you're free to choose. For some people their employment is their lifeblood. I ceased my career in every way on a single day in December 2011 and have never looked back or taken any interest in returning, because once off that bus technology left me behind. I still get occasional requests to return. I've never regretted leaving.
I am free to choose now because I have more than enough money and financial assets. I am just not ready to make the final break because I know that once I do I cannot go back. We have two houses that are paid in full that we are renting, but I am waiting until our house is fully paid off next September before I make any decisions about retiring. The mortgage is most of our monthly expenses so that will put us in a completely different financial situation. The rentals have been very problematic for some time, with tenants who have not paid the rent so it I had my druthers I would just sell them since the market is so high, but I am too practical to do that since they are good investments. I just need to get the rent past due and keep the tenants paying, easier said than done... I will probably be going to small claims court soon...
