Righteousness

[InChrist]

Righteousness seems to be what people say they have when they are convinced their opinions, beliefs, or actions are correct. I often see it used as a justification in and of itself, when no actual evidence or rational justification for their being correct is available.

It is a conceptual label they use as a shield against self-reflection. It is often a way to bootstrap the legitimacy of their own morality without doing the hard moral thinking.

I think you may be confusing righteousness with self- righteousness.

 

[Bird123]

I think l agree with what you are saying here, but l need clarification!

Can we love unconditionally, as God does, without dying to sin?

We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are eternal and can not die. The death of our physical bodies is no more than a change. We will all live many many lifetimes on the road to learning what the best choices really are.

We will also learn to Love Unconditionally just like God. At some point we will learn what it takes to create a Heavenly state for ourselves and others. We are all on the path to perfection. We are all on the path to be like God.

Sin is a man made concept. We will learn regardless of our choices. Our choices show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. There has never been a need to value those petty things mankind holds so dear like Hating, Judging, Blaming, Condemning, Wrath, Anger, Controlling, Intimidating, Coercing, Manipulating and such. These are things that prevent one from reaching a Higher Level.

Instead of valuing these petty things one could focus on Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. With this in mind, we can work at Teaching and leading others forward toward that Higher Level. In other words Help others Fix the real problem. When one really Understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices.

In this time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. God is Great Intelligence. Copy God and you can't go wrong. Remember, religions are creations of mankind. That is who they reflect. Be very careful if you copy religion thinking that is God. It isn't the same thing. It will turn into a lesson in itself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Redemptionsong]

We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are eternal and can not die. The death of our physical bodies is no more than a change. We will all live many many lifetimes on the road to learning what the best choices really are.

We will also learn to Love Unconditionally just like God. At some point we will learn what it takes to create a Heavenly state for ourselves and others. We are all on the path to perfection. We are all on the path to be like God.

Sin is a man made concept. We will learn regardless of our choices. Our choices show God and the world what we know and what we need to learn. There has never been a need to value those petty things mankind holds so dear like Hating, Judging, Blaming, Condemning, Wrath, Anger, Controlling, Intimidating, Coercing, Manipulating and such. These are things that prevent one from reaching a Higher Level.

Instead of valuing these petty things one could focus on Unconditional Love. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. With this in mind, we can work at Teaching and leading others forward toward that Higher Level. In other words Help others Fix the real problem. When one really Understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices.

In this time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. God is Great Intelligence. Copy God and you can't go wrong. Remember, religions are creations of mankind. That is who they reflect. Be very careful if you copy religion thinking that is God. It isn't the same thing. It will turn into a lesson in itself.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Well, I guess this is where we part company! I don't believe sin is a man-made concept. Sin, to my understanding, is a reality in the eyes of God, and is acknowledged by those who believe God's Word in the Bible [IMO] and are convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit.

John 16:7,8. 'Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:'

Trying to teach people to love unconditionally is a waste of time if sin has a hold on their lives. God, IMO, is the only One able to take away our sin. God, as it says in scripture, is the ONLY SAVIOUR [Hosea 13:4] from sin and death!

IMO!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Trying to teach people to love unconditionally is a waste of time if sin has a hold on their lives. God, IMO, is the only One able to take away our sin. God, as it says in scripture, is the ONLY SAVIOUR [Hosea 13:4] from sin and death!

I went to Hell and back many times with my brother. Hard relationships, drug addiction, trouble with a biker gang, I went through a lot with him. We shared a very deep bond that did include unconditional love. And we had it despite "sin having a hold on our lives."
That claim is just as absurd as the nonsense you have to love yourself before you can love another.

 

[Bird123]

Well, I guess this is where we part company! I don't believe sin is a man-made concept. Sin, to my understanding, is a reality in the eyes of God, and is acknowledged by those who believe God's Word in the Bible [IMO] and are convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit.

John 16:7,8. 'Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:'

Trying to teach people to love unconditionally is a waste of time if sin has a hold on their lives. God, IMO, is the only One able to take away our sin. God, as it says in scripture, is the ONLY SAVIOUR [Hosea 13:4] from sin and death!

IMO!

Then you believe in a God who has conditions on His love. Then you believe in a God unwilling or incapable of fixing His children. Then you believe in a God that fries His children for eternity without the possibility of redemption.

Then you must value some of those petty things like judging, condemning, wrath, anger, punishment, control and hate.

Is this correct?

Does this really sound like a God of High Intelligence to you? Does it sound like mankind??

What is more important? judging, condemning,wrath,anger,punishment,control, and hate OR fixing your child? If it were your child, what would be your choice?

The only way to fix bad choices is to educate until all sides are understood. Intelligence will pick the best choices.

Does religion tell you something is wrong with you? Have you had something wrong with you since birth? Does God create people wrong from birth? Do you really think you need saving? From what? Did God create you needing saving?? For what purpose? Does religion find something wrong with you so through them you can be fixed? How dependent are you on religion? Does God want people or create people to be dependent on religion?

There are millions of questions from those who seek the real truth. Does God want people to blindly accept, believe, and follow? Doesn't God want His children Intelligent, Wise, Loving, Kind, and able to stand on their own two feet without crutches?? Does God want His children to Accept or Question? What would you want for your child??

To Question is the start on the journey to Discovery!!

As a hungry student, I will never run out of Questions. When I open a door it leads to knew knowledge and more questions.

All the secrets of the universe and all the answers stare us all in the face. Can you see? God is hiding nothing.

Math!! What really adds up and what doesn't? If all the physics of the world add up perfectly, so does the people factor and everything about God.

Do you find everything adding up or is it all about feelings?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Etritonakin]

I'm totally in agreement with you on the week of God's plan. Jews were aware of this plan well before the Christian era, I believe. The Messiah's delay was put down to sin.,

IMO, Christ is the righteousness of God because he fulfilled the law in all its aspects, outwardly and inwardly.

Yep. The holy days given in the bible teach every major step of the plan every year.
The early new testament church actually also kept them.
I don't think God changed the plan at all -just that men thought things would happen sooner.

 

[Redemptionsong]

I went to Hell and back many times with my brother. Hard relationships, drug addiction, trouble with a biker gang, I went through a lot with him. We shared a very deep bond that did include unconditional love. And we had it despite "sin having a hold on our lives."
That claim is just as absurd as the nonsense you have to love yourself before you can love another.

We can all point to trials in life, but who can say that their love is pure, and free from the pollution of sin? Only God, in Christ, is able to make that claim, lMO. That is why believers look to God's love first, not their own conditional love.

If your love was truly unconditional you would love your enemies with the same love that you love your brother. That is the love shown by Christ, who laid down his life for all men and women.

IMO.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Then you believe in a God who has conditions on His love. Then you believe in a God unwilling or incapable of fixing His children. Then you believe in a God that fries His children for eternity without the possibility of redemption.

Then you must value some of those petty things like judging, condemning, wrath, anger, punishment, control and hate.

Is this correct?

Does this really sound like a God of High Intelligence to you? Does it sound like mankind??

What is more important? judging, condemning,wrath,anger,punishment,control, and hate OR fixing your child? If it were your child, what would be your choice?

The only way to fix bad choices is to educate until all sides are understood. Intelligence will pick the best choices.

Does religion tell you something is wrong with you? Have you had something wrong with you since birth? Does God create people wrong from birth? Do you really think you need saving? From what? Did God create you needing saving?? For what purpose? Does religion find something wrong with you so through them you can be fixed? How dependent are you on religion? Does God want people or create people to be dependent on religion?

There are millions of questions from those who seek the real truth. Does God want people to blindly accept, believe, and follow? Doesn't God want His children Intelligent, Wise, Loving, Kind, and able to stand on their own two feet without crutches?? Does God want His children to Accept or Question? What would you want for your child??

To Question is the start on the journey to Discovery!!

As a hungry student, I will never run out of Questions. When I open a door it leads to knew knowledge and more questions.

All the secrets of the universe and all the answers stare us all in the face. Can you see? God is hiding nothing.

Math!! What really adds up and what doesn't? If all the physics of the world add up perfectly, so does the people factor and everything about God.

Do you find everything adding up or is it all about feelings?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

IMO, the only condition that God placed on his love was faith. It was faith that Adam and Eve broke, and with the breaking of faith came sin.

Sin exists, lMO, and is blatantly obvious in society. So, too, is death.

I believe everyone is born out of fellowship with God. We have to come to a point of faith. This alienation was not of God's making, but man's. It is only through God's mercy that the means of redemption is provided. [lMO]

It's because we live in a sinful world that justice is important. God's Law teaches what is right and wrong, and boundaries are needed when people are incapable of loving unselfishly. [IMO]

You appear to believe that all men and women are born as unselfish, loving creatures. This is not my experience.

Have you never had resort to justice?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If your love was truly unconditional you

Such a fine display of Christian judgement, hypocrisy, and arrogance.
Makes me wish your religion is real so I can greet you in Hell.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Such a fine display of Christian judgement, hypocrisy, and arrogance.
Makes me wish your religion is real so I can greet you in Hell.

As you well know, it's not about 'religion' but about the person of Jesus Christ. As the scripture says, he's become a 'stone of stumbling' to many. [IMO]

2 Peter 2:21,22.

We are all judged by God. [lMO]

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As you well know, it's not about 'religion' but about the person of Jesus Christ. As the scripture says, he's become a 'stone of stumbling' to many. [IMO]

2 Peter 2:21,22.

We are all judged by God. [lMO]

Oh, yes. And by what you measure against people so shall it be measured against you.
Telling someone her love of a deeply cherished and very close brother wasn't unconditional, wowee. I can't wait to know how Jehovah flips that around on you.

 

[Bird123]

IMO, the only condition that God placed on his love was faith. It was faith that Adam and Eve broke, and with the breaking of faith came sin.

Sin exists, lMO, and is blatantly obvious in society. So, too, is death.

I believe everyone is born out of fellowship with God. We have to come to a point of faith. This alienation was not of God's making, but man's. It is only through God's mercy that the means of redemption is provided. [lMO]

It's because we live in a sinful world that justice is important. God's Law teaches what is right and wrong, and boundaries are needed when people are incapable of loving unselfishly. [IMO]

You appear to believe that all men and women are born as unselfish, loving creatures. This is not my experience.

Have you never had resort to justice?

Back to those pesky questions. What it more important: Payback as justice or fixing your children? Isn't justice no more than payback? Should not the goal be to fix the child rather than punish or fry your children?

Once again, you value Blame. You were sure to let me know it wasn't God's fault. Does it matter whose fault it is? Shouldn't fixing the problem be the only concern?

Do we really live in a sinful world or do we live in a world where all God's children are learning what the best choices really are?

Do you see this world as a sinful, evil mess? Has religion corrupted your view? Ask yourself: Why would God create as mess?

Understanding what is really going on changes the view. When I look at this world I see a Masterpiece!! Would God create a Masterpiece? You bet!! I can see it in front of my eyes!!

You speak of God's laws. God has given no one any laws. Each will decide for themselves which are the best choices. There has never been a need to define good or evil.

They tell you that their holy book comes from God, however God has never told you that. Mankind told you that. What would you expect them to say when their goal is to acquire followers?

Sin is no more than an excuse to value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. Must you value those petty things? They prevent one from reaching a Higher Level.

Where are your answers? All those questions I asked can not be ignored if one seeks real truth. Do you seek real truth or do you seek your deemed comfort from your beliefs? I have always been one who must have the Real Truth. I think these are lessons we all must learn.

Contrary to popular belief, it has never ever been about faith or believing. Religions teach people to value beliefs and faith above all else simply because that is all they have.

Questions again: Why would faith be so important to God? Do you really think people without faith really hurt God? If God can create universes, why would a few wayward children really ever be a problem?

Questions keep one moving toward Discovery and real Truth. If one never questions, one is going nowhere.

God loves His children to Question. The only ones who do not want you to question are those who do not want you to know the Real Truth.

Do you know what God's greatest moment is? God's greatest moment is when that light bulb goes off over one of His children's head and they Understand. This can be about any subject at all.

There is so much to learn that it could never be done in one mere lifetime. On the other hand, there is no time limit on learning. To judge, condemn and hate those learning lessons one has already learned is petty and evil in itself. It will never be the Best choice. Each that choose that path will learn this in time.

The real answer is to fix the problem, guide others to the right answers, and place truth in the world so they might Discover and learn the Real Truth for themselves. Doesn't this seem like a much better solution than payback and justice as an excuse for petty actions and choices?

Finally, have I never had to resort to justice? I will answer your question. It's all about choices. I work only at fixing the problems. Payback or vengeance will never be a viable choice I could make.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Back to those pesky questions. What it more important: Payback as justice or fixing your children? Isn't justice no more than payback? Should not the goal be to fix the child rather than punish or fry your children?

You'd think, but the Bible strongly suggests Jehovah has no interest in this and he'd rather just punish people in life and eternity than fixing his own flawed system.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Back to those pesky questions. What it more important: Payback as justice or fixing your children? Isn't justice no more than payback? Should not the goal be to fix the child rather than punish or fry your children?

Once again, you value Blame. You were sure to let me know it wasn't God's fault. Does it matter whose fault it is? Shouldn't fixing the problem be the only concern?

Do we really live in a sinful world or do we live in a world where all God's children are learning what the best choices really are?

Do you see this world as a sinful, evil mess? Has religion corrupted your view? Ask yourself: Why would God create as mess?

Understanding what is really going on changes the view. When I look at this world I see a Masterpiece!! Would God create a Masterpiece? You bet!! I can see it in front of my eyes!!

You speak of God's laws. God has given no one any laws. Each will decide for themselves which are the best choices. There has never been a need to define good or evil.

They tell you that their holy book comes from God, however God has never told you that. Mankind told you that. What would you expect them to say when their goal is to acquire followers?

Sin is no more than an excuse to value all those petty things mankind holds so dear. Must you value those petty things? They prevent one from reaching a Higher Level.

Where are your answers? All those questions I asked can not be ignored if one seeks real truth. Do you seek real truth or do you seek your deemed comfort from your beliefs? I have always been one who must have the Real Truth. I think these are lessons we all must learn.

Contrary to popular belief, it has never ever been about faith or believing. Religions teach people to value beliefs and faith above all else simply because that is all they have.

Questions again: Why would faith be so important to God? Do you really think people without faith really hurt God? If God can create universes, why would a few wayward children really ever be a problem?

Questions keep one moving toward Discovery and real Truth. If one never questions, one is going nowhere.

God loves His children to Question. The only ones who do not want you to question are those who do not want you to know the Real Truth.

Do you know what God's greatest moment is? God's greatest moment is when that light bulb goes off over one of His children's head and they Understand. This can be about any subject at all.

There is so much to learn that it could never be done in one mere lifetime. On the other hand, there is no time limit on learning. To judge, condemn and hate those learning lessons one has already learned is petty and evil in itself. It will never be the Best choice. Each that choose that path will learn this in time.

The real answer is to fix the problem, guide others to the right answers, and place truth in the world so they might Discover and learn the Real Truth for themselves. Doesn't this seem like a much better solution than payback and justice as an excuse for petty actions and choices?

Finally, have I never had to resort to justice? I will answer your question. It's all about choices. I work only at fixing the problems. Payback or vengeance will never be a viable choice I could make.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

[IMO] God created a world that had the potential to be good. The one allowance for evil was free will, a necessary allowance given that God wants people to love one another!

Faith is paramount because it demonstrates a trust in God as omniscient, omnipotent and loving. To claim that you believe in God, yet see no value in faith, is, in my books, a nonsense.

Furthermore, the claim to believe in God and in unconditional love has, lMO, no substance if you make Jesus Christ a liar. And this is what you do by claiming that he did not die for the sins of mankind. In effect, you are saying that his sacrifice and resurrection have no significance.

Is that what you believe?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Justice is important to society because it brings order, but salvation is dependent on faith and grace. IMO.

 

[Redemptionsong]

You'd think, but the Bible strongly suggests Jehovah has no interest in this and he'd rather just punish people in life and eternity than fixing his own flawed system.

God is the Saviour, lMO. His salvation is achieved through his Son, Jesus Christ, and God's plan is being carried through at this very moment in time. Mercy is still available to those willing to receive, lMO.

 

[Bird123]

[IMO] God created a world that had the potential to be good. The one allowance for evil was free will, a necessary allowance given that God wants people to love one another!

Faith is paramount because it demonstrates a trust in God as omniscient, omnipotent and loving. To claim that you believe in God, yet see no value in faith, is, in my books, a nonsense.

Furthermore, the claim to believe in God and in unconditional love has, lMO, no substance if you make Jesus Christ a liar. And this is what you do by claiming that he did not die for the sins of mankind. In effect, you are saying that his sacrifice and resurrection have no significance.

Is that what you believe?

Is Jesus Christ a Liar?? Jesus Christ has made no statements to me or anyone I know in order to determine whether Jesus Christ is a Liar or not. Further, Jesus did not write any holy books either. As for myself, I give everyone the great opportunity to be trustworthy until it is proven wrong. If one questions, one Discovers that holy books do not add up completely. Are those writers completely honest? They reflect mankind more than anything else.

As far as faith goes, I do my best to go for Truth and facts rather than beliefs. God is not a Belief. God is a Fact. On the other hand, this isn't the same for everyone.

This world was created with all choices along with the freedom for God's children to make free choices. In time every child will Discover what the best choices really are.

If one chooses to value, and label for sin, isn't one choosing to value all those petty things mankind holds so dear? Hanging onto all those petty things will prevent one from reaching a higher level.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God is the Saviour, lMO. His salvation is achieved through his Son, Jesus Christ, and God's plan is being carried through at this very moment in time. Mercy is still available to those willing to receive, lMO.

Why do I need a savior and this salvation?

 

[Bird123]

You'd think, but the Bible strongly suggests Jehovah has no interest in this and he'd rather just punish people in life and eternity than fixing his own flawed system.

I think you are right. If we look all around us, we see that any Being capable of creating all this has to have great intelligence. Is Jehovah of the Bible really intelligent? If one accepts one might say yes. If one Thinks. clearly the answer is no.

Let's look at an action of God. God created this world so that Brains win in the end. With this in mind, how can anybody believe God wants people just to accept rather than Think?

If all the physics of this world add up completely, which reflects God, so will everything about God. Shouldn't this be the base by which one should not fall under?

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. If one really seeks Truth, everything must be questioned. On the other hand, if one seeks the comfort of their set of beliefs, then accepting is all that is required.

I will always be one who questions. In the end, Math will always add up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think you are right. If we look all around us, we see that any Being capable of creating all this has to have great intelligence. Is Jehovah of the Bible really intelligent? If one accepts one might say yes. If one Thinks. clearly the answer is no.

Let's look at an action of God. God created this world so that Brains win in the end. With this in mind, how can anybody believe God wants people just to accept rather than Think?

If all the physics of this world add up completely, which reflects God, so will everything about God. Shouldn't this be the base by which one should not fall under?

To question is the start on the journey to Discovery. If one really seeks Truth, everything must be questioned. On the other hand, if one seeks the comfort of their set of beliefs, then accepting is all that is required.

I will always be one who questions. In the end, Math will always add up.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

And the math doesn't necessitate or require a god for the universe.