Rishi Sunak

[LuisDantas]

This is not really how most English where I lived saw it. The main issue is that Remainers seemed to believe that this was a non-issue prior to 2016 and Leavers were entranced by certain politicians. This isn't true. I think this is a southern English misunderstanding because Brexit was just not in anyone's mind there, in the more prosperous parts of England; but in the North, I remember being told as a child that we were not really part of the EU and we were not like the continent (but in plainer language).

So, you are saying that so-called Euroskepticism was a significant force way before 2016?

Most Northern English have had problems with the EU for a long, long time, such that the politicians did not sway them in any direction - they had been firm in their desire to leave for decades - but the perks promised of leaving only heightened the desire to leave, such as NHS money; but NHS money was not really anyone's main concern; as I said, it was a bonus for most Leavers. So these promises were believed on the back of an already potent wish to leave the EU. They gave less politically savvy people reasons when explaining why they wanted to leave, because concepts like 'I don't want to be part of a federal union' are beyond the average Saxon, who doesn't know or use such language, but is infact what he is meaning to say.

Any insights that you might want to share on the views, motivations or goals of those feelings against EU membership?

In all honesty, they are just not very clear to me right now. Perhaps it is some form of Nationalism or National pride, fueled by an expectation that EU membership would be hindering rather than helping the development of local communities?

It feels counter-intuitive to me that and even contradictory that a community might at once feel proud of its status as a current or potential global mover and shaker while also being bothered by the need to take the rest of the world into consideration, but I can't well ignore the evidence that it happens and that it happens very often.

I have certainly seen it being attempted here in Brazil, even today. We are a very foolish people, all too often entranced by our territorial extension and frequently repeated statements that we are blessed with endless natural resources.

Yes, we would like our place on the world stage again. It is a sad time. It's not an egocentric desire moreso a desire for what we know we can be, have been, and are now completely failing.

And you expected Brexit to be helpful there? I assume you are not an adept of Globalism then.

I can only say that there is no chance of that working out that I can conceive of.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I'm not a Labour voter so I don't know where to go. I'm a pretty solid ONC, so.... hard times.

Lib Dems not convincing you at all?

 

[Rival]

Lib Dems not convincing you at all?

Who?

 

[LuisDantas]

Brazil has its share of persistent beliefs. Among them, that we would be very rich indeed if our politicians only "allowed" us to explore the full economic potential of our Niobium and that our economic development has been indelibly hurt because the Portuguese took so much gold from the land when they were in power here.

Brexit reminds me of those beliefs.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Brazil has its share of persistent beliefs. Among them, that we would be very rich indeed if our politicians only "allowed" us to explore the full economic potential of our Niobium and that our economic development has been indelibly hurt because the Portuguese took so much gold from the land when they were in power here.

Brexit reminds me of those beliefs.

I’d trade all England’s former glories for one more football World Cup.

 

[exchemist]

Yes, we would like our place on the world stage again. It is a sad time. It's not an egocentric desire moreso a desire for what we know we can be, have been, and are now completely failing.

No, we never will be again and it's time we got used to that. British exceptionalism is a snare and a delusion. The particular circumstances that led to the sea power (naval and trading) of an island nation, and our early embrace of the industrial revolution based on indigenous coal, cannot be expected to recur. It's not all about ships any more, let alone coal. Our language and our legal system are advantages still, but that's about it.

Ironically, it is the empire and the export of our language which have given us the immigration that so many Brexiters so dislike. What goes around comes around.

 

[Rival]

No, we never will be again and it's time we got used to that. British exceptionalism is a snare and a delusion. The particular circumstances that led to the sea power (naval and trading) of an island nation, and our early embrace of the industrial revolution based on indigenous coal, cannot be expected to recur. It's not all about ships any more, let alone coal. Our language and our legal system are advantages still, but that's about it.

Ironically, it is the empire and the export of our language which have given us the immigration that so many Brexiters so dislike. What goes around comes around.

Tbh most of the Leavers who were concerned about immigration were mostly concerned about EE immigration, which was high where I lived, with low levels of cultural integration and what I can only describe as a disdainful attitude towards English culture. We have a strong expectation for people to integrate and leave former cultures behind, to Anglicise, which these people were not doing. It became a source of annoyance. Not only that, but they would fight with each other (I mean physical fights) and it would be common. So these aren't really things you're 'meant' to say but it carried on incessantly, Poles v Russians, Romanians v Everyone.... it was tiresome. If they had integrated, so the thinking goes, these animosities would not occur.

 

[LuisDantas]

Word has it that feelings about immigration have changed somewhat - apparently mostly because the workforce could use immigrants. Do you feel that to be accurate?

 

[exchemist]

Tbh most of the Leavers who were concerned about immigration were mostly concerned about EE immigration, which was high where I lived, with low levels of cultural integration and what I can only describe as a disdainful attitude towards English culture. We have a strong expectation for people to integrate and leave former cultures behind, to Anglicise, which these people were not doing. It became a source of annoyance. Not only that, but they would fight with each other (I mean physical fights) and it would be common. So these aren't really things you're 'meant' to say but it carried on incessantly, Poles v Russians, Romanians v Everyone.... it was tiresome. If they had integrated, so the thinking goes, these animosities would not occur.

Russians? They were never part of it. I simply do not believe there were ever significant numbers of Russians anywhere in the UK. As for Poles, they are culturally almost identical to Brits - they just eat better sausage. Romanians a little less so, admittedly.

Well, we've traded Catholic Poles and Orthodox Romanians for Muslim Pakistanis and Hindu Indians now, plus lots of Muslim or Christian Nigerians. And those are people that really are culturally different and don't integrate easily. So, to quote Joss Ackland's S African in Lethal Weapon 2, "Whiew's the dickhid naow?"

 

[Rival]

Russians? They were never part of it. I simply do not believe there were ever significant numbers of Russians anywhere in the UK. As for Poles, they are culturally almost identical to Brits - they just eat better sausage. Romanians a little less so, admittedly.

Trust me, where I lived in East Yorkshire it was majority Russian immigrants lol. You could tell by their Orthodoxy. When I say immigrants, I mean, it's possible many of them came after the Soviet Union collapsed, had kids, but because they wouldn't integrate you can barely tell. They spend their time between Russia and the UK. Dad worked with many of them on the pig farms and in the factories. They were usually agency workers.

 

[exchemist]

Trust me, where I lived in East Yorkshire it was majority Russian immigrants lol. You could tell by their Orthodoxy. When I say immigrants, I mean, it's possible many of them came after the Soviet Union collapsed, had kids, but because they wouldn't integrate you can barely tell. They spend their time between Russia and the UK. Dad worked with many of them on the pig farms and in the factories. They were usually agency workers.

Well that's nothing to do with the EU then.

 

[Rival]

Well that's nothing to do with the EU then.

No, but the Poles and Romanians were. My point was the infighting between these groups, which could have been stopped had they been better enculturated.

 

[exchemist]

No, but the Poles and Romanians were. My point was the infighting between these groups, which could have been stopped had they been better enculturated.

Who does the work now?

 

[Rival]

Who does the work now?

Nobody, most of these places shut down. The farms are gone. I suspect it's a mix in the factories, as usual.

 

[exchemist]

Nobody, most of these places shut down. The farms are gone. I suspect it's a mix in the factories, as usual.

Is that a win?

 

[Rival]

Is that a win?

Not really!

 

[Altfish]

It was mostly northern England and Wales who voted to leave the EU. Much of southern England was appalled by the outcome.

Rural areas voted leave, some run down industrial areas voted leave. in general Cities voted remain
The so called red wall will vanish at the next election; they are all realising that Brexit was a hoax.

 

[Little Dragon]

R

What are your thoughts on his tenure so far?

Rishi Sunak is a weak and ineffectual leader, he has no visceral understanding of what life is like for the average British citizen, partly because he is the wealthiest MP in the UK, a billionaire, he constantly U turns, he has no control over ministers, he is a joke. He has no democratic mandate and he is set to lose the next General Election for the Conservative scum, by a landslide. To the Labour Party.
His party (Parliamentary Cons) is a dog whistling far right collection of the most vile human beings imaginable. Racists, liars, elitists, thieves, bullies, drug addicts and sex offenders. Rishi is head of a gang of absolute and unalloyed see you next tuesdays. His disgusting party, the conservatives, have become so base and fascistic they would make Margaret Thatcher puke, may she rest in peace. They are simply a threat to this nation and in particular to all vulnerable people in it.
I really really despise him and them, as do most reasonable people, be they socialist or centrist or traditional conservatives.

The modern conservatives, are absolutely unfit for any office, anywhere.

 

[Little Dragon]

The so called red wall will vanish at the next election; they are all realising that Brexit was a hoax.

Not just the red wall, hopefully. With any luck, they will lose hundreds of seats. To Keir Starmer's Labour. The fascistic tory effluence that is currently stealing oxygen in parliament, has no place in government, if they end up with less than 100 seats, I am throwing a phat party.

 

[Little Dragon]

Not really!

Brexit, was a colossal error. Those that advocated it, were either wealthy enough to be immune to it's more general effects or too ignorant or misinformed to know what the ramifications would be. I will support any UK party that calls for rejoining the EU. A terrible stupid mindless jingoistic folly, that must be corrected. I mean honestly, who makes it more difficult and costly, to trade with their closest and largest market? A moron, that's who.