Robert Spencer on the ignorance of the leftists regarding Islam

[LuisDantas]

There are also former Muslims who speak against Islam.

That is, if anything, an understatement!

Islaam is in fact a significant source of atheists these days, mainly because it encourages people to make a binary choice between Islaam and atheism (which I wish they did not) since all other options are spoken against so firmly in the Qur'an.

Were it more invested in representing religion, theism and atheism in fair, accurate terms, Islaam would be far less numerous, but also a lot more respectable.

 

[sooda]

There are also former Muslims who speak against Islam.

Islam doesn't call America the great Satan... Some Iranians do.

You don't know any Muslims nor do you know anything about Islam.


If we do not learn from Europe and its example and mistakes with Islam now, America will suffer the same fate and worse later. America is the great Satan. Israel is the little Satan, according to Islam.

The Western programming , the silent Jihad, that began in earnest under Obama leads those who take the propaganda as truth into a false understanding of Islam.

That false understanding has led to certain government tax payer funded public schools to allow Muslim terrorist front group CAIR into those schools so as to indoctrinate young minds into the beliefs of the most intolerant political ideology clad as religion on earth.
While Christian speakers are forbidden in most cases due to the "separation clause". (Which doesn't apply to CAIR in those aforementioned schools. Nor to the curriculum some schools have adopted wherein they teach the five pillars of Islam).

Defenders of Islam will often say, well those radical actors in Islam that kill people aren't representative of "true Islam".
Yes, they are. When the call comes to rise in the name of Allah it is incumbent on the Muslim to do just that. "Radical Islam" "Moderate Islam", are Western media inventions. There is no such thing in Islam. Islam is always Islam.


Some may be too young to remember this man when he was a British born musician who composed Christian folk songs and other music of peace and love. Later he converted to Islam and changed his name from Cat Stevens to, Yusuf Islam.

As an American musician Cat's music was about love and peace. As Yusuf Islam the man his commitment is otherwise when it comes to his allegiance to the tenets of Islam.
Remember Salman Rushdie? Who wrote the fictional work, "The Satanic Verses"? A Fatwah, death warrant, religion of peace issues death warrants, think about that, is still in effect for as long as SR lives.
Years ago in an interview Yusuf Islam was asked about that.

​

 

[metis]

Wait and see. If the investigation pans out it will happen. There are ethics also for House members. She's antisemitic, she's a radical Muslim who gave a speech at CAIR. An American entity designated a HAMAS front by the UAE.

..."CAIR USA has been repeatedly identified as a Muslim Brotherhood front organization. It was listed as a Muslim Brotherhood front organization and as a terrorism entity by the United Arab Emirates in 2014."
Muslim Brotherhood Front Organizations, U.S. and Canada

Posting right-wing sources doesn't help your cause.

Also, what's the difference in reality between anti-Semitism and anti-Islamism?

Finally, some conflate any criticism of what Israel may do at times with being "anti-Semitic", and if that were to supposedly be true then what about some who are Jewish who themselves question some Israeli policies at times? Are they anti-Semitic as well? I've spent time in Israel, and they certainly aren't always on the same page, let me tell ya. Same with the Jewish population here in the States on Israeli policies.

 

[metis]

That is, if anything, an understatement!

Islaam is in fact a significant source of atheists these days, mainly because it encourages people to make a binary choice between Islaam and atheism (which I wish they did not) since all other options are spoken against so firmly in the Qur'an.

Were it more invested in representing religion, theism and atheism in fair, accurate terms, Islaam would be far less numerous, but also a lot more respectable.

Absolutely correct, and let me just add that Islam has long been a VERY diverse religion, much like
Buddhism is, and conformist programs by some groups have a long standing history of causing problems within and for some outside of Islam.

These radical elements tend to especially sprout up during tough times and, as you well know, western Asia has been pretty much a basket case going back to the European occupations and beyond. You guys experienced it historically in Brazil as well.

 

[LuisDantas]

You guys experienced it historically in Brazil as well.

That we have, although I will insist that Islaam has particular qualities that are not usually found in Christian groups, and which severely restrict and even punish outright the very possibility of variation in its midst.

As a matter of fact, I attribute most of the flaws of Islaam (which, as you well know, I do not much hesitate to lampshade) to that deficiency in allowing for variety of perspective.

But going back to Christianity, are you aware of the curious, largely involuntary role of Catolicism in the origin of Candomblé?

 

[metis]

That we have, although I will insist that Islaam has particular qualities that are not usually found in Christian groups, and which severely restrict and even punish outright the very possibility of variation in its midst.

But again, that's more of an issue due to reactions caused by various hostilities as Islam traditionally was quite open to diversity, relatively speaking. Since it is what we call a "desert religion", much was left up to the individual, much like what traditionally is found in Judaism. Even Buddhism has different approaches with this same thing, with the personal discernment strong in India but weak in the Far East historically.

But going back to Christianity, are you aware of the curious, largely involuntary role of Catolicism in the origin of Candomblé?

Somewhat. I had a foreign exchange student from Brazil who was involved with what she and some others call "Spiritualism", although is Candomble also called as such? I've seen a couple of programs that briefly covered this but none that went in any detail.

I know the Church often went along with it so as to try and wean people away and join the Church, but I really can't take it any further than that, so anything you're likely to add would be helpful. Also, I am aware of much of the damage that the Church did especially to indigenous peoples in your region.

 

[LuisDantas]

But again, that's more of an issue due to reactions caused by various hostilities as Islam traditionally was quite open to diversity, relatively speaking. Since it is what we call a "desert religion", much was left up to the individual, much like what traditionally is found in Judaism. Even Buddhism has different approaches with this same thing, with the personal discernment strong in India but weak in the Far East historically.

Islaam is so huge that it can't avoid considerable diversity. Frankly, I am dismayed that it shows so little. By rights it should display a lot more indeed.

Somewhat. I had a foreign exchange student from Brazil who was involved with what she and some others call "Spiritualism", although is Candomble also called as such? I've seen a couple of programs that briefly covered this but none that went in any detail.

Spiritualism, not-so-roughly speaking, is the favored word for animistic beliefs here in Brazil. Lacking further context, that would more likely than not imply a general alignment with the general beliefs of and perhaps at least occasional practice in Kardecist Spiritism, Umbanda and perhaps Candomblé.

All three are well-known and fairly widespread here in Brazil, with Kardecism positioning itself as a form of Christianity, or perhaps as a successor to it. Kardecism and Umbanda have a lot of channelling practices; arguably, so does Candomblé, although the emphasis is somewhat different.

A considerable number of Brazilians - perhaps 10% or even more - are in practice loosely affiliated with both Christianity (mainly Catholicism) and at least one of those three creeds, Kardecism being probably the most popular. In that sense Brazil reminds me of Haiti, which is largely Christian but has an undeniable and strong Vodou presence.

I know the Church often went along with it so as to try and wean people away and join the Church, but I really can't take it any further than that, so anything you're likely to add would be helpful. Also, I am aware of much of the damage that the Church did especially to indigenous peoples in your region.

Generally speaking, Brazil has always had a considerable, often decisive element of Catholic influence in our politics. A part of that involved avoiding giving people too much grief if they turned out to have animistic beliefs, although there is a lot of history and nuance there. It is indeed true that many Spiritists also consider themselves Catholics, although I understand that they tend not to bring the matter to the attention of their priests.

And indeed, what we did with our native people is no less than calamitous, and from what I know had considerable encouragement from Catholic representatives.

 

[Wasp]

There are also former Muslims who speak against Islam.

She was never a real Muslim. She's a liar too and doesn't know anything about Islam. Or she's lying about Islam.

If we do not learn from Europe and its example and mistakes with Islam now, America will suffer the same fate and worse later. America is the great Satan. Israel is the little Satan, according to Islam.

You mean according to Some Iranians?

to certain government tax payer funded

What about the tax payers funding Israelis in torturing under aged Palestinians?

Remember Salman Rushdie? Who wrote the fictional work, "The Satanic Verses"? A Fatwah,

From Iran and perhaps other Shia Muslims. Only done for show.

 

[Notanumber]

Denial of the truth is ingrained in Islam.

 

[LuisDantas]

Denial of the truth is ingrained in Islam.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. The signs are deep and undeniable.

 

[metis]

And indeed, what we did with our native people is no less than calamitous, and from what I know had considerable encouragement from Catholic representatives.

First all, thanks for your clarification and explanation of the various religious beliefs in your area.

To your point above, the Church made poor decisions on dealing with the indigenous as their culture, including their religious beliefs, was very different than what was found in Europe. Even something as simple as forcing them to wear more clothes created problems, especially in the Amazonia region because of the extreme humidity, which tended to encourage fungus-related diseases. Also, for protection's sake, the men usually bathed with the women, but the Church "had to" stop that, which had the effect that the people bathed less often, thus encouraging even more disease.

But even worse was the destruction of the native culture to be replaced by "civilized" European culture, which also created a ton of problems. The same thing happened here in North America, and I have spent gobs of time over the last 50 years on reservations because of my anthropological studies, thus the end result is a love/hate relationship they have with the Church even today.

Fortunately, the Church has learned its lesson, but unfortunately many other problems still persist with even newer ones being added as time has gone on.

Nice talking with ya, and I really wish we had a chance to meet and talk.

 

[Notanumber]

This Englishman makes some good points.

How long will this man be able to express his opinions before he is silenced by the state?

 

[SugarOcean]

Posting right-wing sources doesn't help your cause.

I'd expect nothing less from a Liberal.

Also, what's the difference in reality between anti-Semitism and anti-Islamism?

Jews aren't wrapping themselves in explosives and detonating among the infidels they find worthy of being turned into little pieces.

Finally, some conflate any criticism of what Israel may do at times with being "anti-Semitic", and if that were to supposedly be true then what about some who are Jewish who themselves question some Israeli policies at times? Are they anti-Semitic as well? I've spent time in Israel, and they certainly aren't always on the same page, let me tell ya. Same with the Jewish population here in the States on Israeli policies.

Oh, I have no illusion of Israel being full of peace and always the ones under assault in their nation. Not at all.
My observations concern elected representatives of the American people openly disparaging Israel as a nation.
Like Abomination of Congress, AOC, who whenever she refers to Israel adds, occupiers to her spiel.
Ilhan Omar's record as an anti-semite speaks for itself. Even prior to entering the House. She's also anti-Christian and in alignment with a terrorist front, CAIR.

 

[metis]

I'd expect nothing less from a Liberal.

"Nice" stereotype, probably fed by the fact that you don't know me that well and, frankly, I much prefer to keep it that way with you.