Russia....What It's Like

[Debater Slayer]

It isn't oligarchic. That's a common misconception.
Power isn't shared in the sense of an oligarchy.
(This I glean from interviews with alleged "oligarchs".
And observing how any of them who run afoul of
Putin are soon defenstrated or poisoned.)

It's an oligarchy because Putin has henchmen in power who have major reach in the country. He just "replaces" them if they misstep.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm slightly younger than you and was spared that, thanks to Richard Nixon.

But yes, capitalist views on economics were more moderate back then. Reagan and his ilk were the ones who turned it into something odious and malignant.

You don't know what capitalism was like back then.
It actually became more constrained under Reagan
(who presided over great expansion of the CFR).
This misimpression is created by the left's use of
Ron as a boogeyman.

 

[Revoltingest]

I hope the opposite.

Of course you do.

 

[Father Heathen]

I would strongly suggest not taking specific opinions here as representative of all or even most Italians. Anyone could claim that their personal views reflect on an entire nation or a large part of it, but we all know that a lot of people project inaccurately.

I've known Italians outside this forum, and they're some of the friendliest and most peaceful people I've met. Nothing I have seen whether in any credible sources (e.g., reliable opinion surveys) or even through personal anecdotes leads me to believe that most Italians love Putin, celebrate fascism, or dislike people of other ethnicities.

We know. We're actually referencing/scrutinizing @Estro Felino 's fantasy version of Italy. She's also been crafting a fantasy version of the U.S., inventing criticisms on the fly.

 

[Stevicus]

You don't know what capitalism was like back then.
It actually became more constrained under Reagan
(who presided over great expansion of the CFR).
This misimpression is created by the left's use of
Ron as a boogeyman.

I know that unions were far more powerful back then and it was a period marked by great, wide-reaching reforms which Reagan and his ilk wanted to undo. No one could question Nixon's anti-communist credentials, yet he supported price controls and the creation of the EPA.

As you correctly stated above, people did not oppose socialism for strictly economic reasons as they do now, and in fact, most economic considerations appeared secondary. America's cultural center was also more oriented towards the middle class values of the working class. It wasn't until the Reagan era that greed became "good."

 

[Father Heathen]

View attachment 75619

Looks like something you would find on a backwater boomer's Facebook feed. All that's missing from that image is a random "Minion" character.

 

[Estro Felino]

We know. We're actually referencing/scrutinizing @Estro Felino 's fantasy version of Italy. She's also been crafting a fantasy version of the U.S., inventing criticisms on the fly.

It's obvious that my speculations about the US may be wrong (and probably are)
As for Italy, I know what I am saying.

 

[Revoltingest]

Probably more like this:

Twilight Zone was a great show.
But it sure did have some bad acting at times.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's an oligarchy because Putin has henchmen in power who have major reach in the country. He just "replaces" them if they misstep.

"Oligarchy" is about shared power.
Putin doesn't share.
Your "oligarchs" are minions.

 

[Stevicus]

Looks like something you would find on a backwater boomer's Facebook feed. All that's missing from that image is a random "Minion" character.

Perhaps, although it's worthwhile to consider the etymology of where many of the prevailing mindsets of today come from.

 

[Stevicus]

Twilight Zone was a great show.
But it sure did have some bad acting at times.

That wasn't from The Twilight Zone. That was Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds.

 

[Audie]

I am very Communist, then.

Sorry to hear it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know that unions were far more powerful back then and it was a period marked by great, wide-reaching reforms which Reagan and his ilk wanted to undo. No one could question Nixon's anti-communist credentials, yet he supported price controls and the creation of the EPA.

Reagan didn't cause unions' loss of power.
I recall unions slitting their own throats with corrupt
leadership, becoming redundant as safety regulations
improved, becoming redundant as the economy
thrived, & by striking in a manner of self harm.

As you correctly stated above, people did not oppose socialism for strictly economic reasons as they do now, and in fact, most economic considerations appeared secondary. America's cultural center was also more oriented towards the middle class values of the working class. It wasn't until the Reagan era that greed became "good."

Greed has always been good.
Factors that created the myth of the utopian middle class....
- Post WW2 lack of overseas competition.
- Lower quality housing was cheap.
- Land was cheap because of lower population & less real estate regulation.
- Taxes were lower.
- Government benefits were largely limited to whites.
(Blacks didn't get this utopian largesse.)

The 50s were great for people for whom the 50s were great.

 

[Revoltingest]

That wasn't from The Twilight Zone. That was Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds.

Geeze...it looked so Twilight Zone.
Even Hitchcock tolerated some bad acting, eh.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry to hear it.

Communism is seductive when one doesn't have to live under it.
Same for socialism.
Be careful what ya wish for, eh.

 

[Audie]

Communism is seductive when one doesn't have to live under it.
Same for socialism.
Be careful what ya wish for, eh.

It's certainly been a disaster everywhere it's been tried

 

[Revoltingest]

It's certainly been a disaster everywhere it's been tried

Try getting socialism's fans to admit it.
The excuses....
- They didn't do it the right way.
- The CIA undermined it.
- It's never been tried.

 

[Audie]

Reagan didn't cause unions' loss of power.
I recall unions slitting their own throats with corrupt
leadership, becoming redundant as safety regulations
improved, becoming redundant as the economy
thrived, & by striking in a manner of self harm.


Greed has always been good.
Factors that created the myth of the utopian middle class....
- Post WW2 lack of overseas competition.
- Lower quality housing was cheap.
- Land was cheap because of lower population & less real estate regulation.
- Taxes were lower.
- Government benefits were largely limited to whites.
(Blacks didn't get this utopian largesse.)

The 50s were great for people for whom the 50s were great.

We never see much depth to socialist
analysis, just assertions about villains and greed.

 

[Audie]

Try getting socialism's fans to admit it.
The excuses....
- They didn't do it the right way.
- The CIA undermined it.
- It's never been tried.

I did try, with my aforementioned uncle of the
Red Guard.
Remind me not to do that again.

He is certain the revolution was sold out.

 

[Stevicus]

Reagan didn't cause unions' loss of power.
I recall unions slitting their own throats with corrupt
leadership, becoming redundant as safety regulations
improved, becoming redundant as the economy
thrived, & by striking in a manner of self harm.

I recall some union-busting in the 80s, with PATCO and the copper miners here in Arizona. The strategy for bypassing labor unions and US labor laws was by wanton encouragement and government incentives towards outsourcing and moving American jobs overseas. It's that philosophy which brought about a great deal of self harm upon America which we're seeing the cumulative effects of now.

Greed has always been good.
Factors that created the myth of the utopian middle class....
- Post WW2 lack of overseas competition.
- Lower quality housing was cheap.
- Land was cheap because of lower population & less real estate regulation.
- Taxes were lower.
- Government benefits were largely limited to whites.
(Blacks didn't get this utopian largesse.)

The 50s were great for people for whom the 50s were great.

I wasn't just talking about the 50s, but the fact is, many great civil rights reforms and landmark Supreme Court decisions characterized that era. True, it was still pretty bad for people of color, but it was starting to get better and more people were recognizing America's racist policies as an atrocity that needed to be stopped. Infrastructure improvements and urban renewal were also high priorities, along with a strong push towards improving public education and healthcare.

I don't know why you're poo-pooing that era, since it demonstrates a time when capitalism could be relatively decent and beneficial for the economy - and the nation as a whole.

However, I recall that Reagan himself - along with many of his ilk - were sharply critical of that period and wanted to reverse the reforms favored by all those pinkos, progressives, and bleeding-heart liberals.