Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I wouldn't worry. She not only presumes to speak for all Italians but for all Europeans as well. She'd have you believe that, aside from the "elites", everybody simps for Putin and Lenin's mummy.
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Russia....What It's Like
- Thread starter Revoltingest
- Start date
I know of those.
But I thought it useful to inform her that
I know actual living breathing Marxists.
I know because of the total lack of cogent evidenced argument.
It's like knowing that creationism isn't science.
No, I'm not searching for quotes for that.
If you believe they don't exist, there's no convincing you otherwise.
If you want to discuss specific ones, then it's your job to present the
ones that interest you.
I've not yet figured out how to divide up your quoted post.Such as the government's claims about Russia or the USSR? Or the claim that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone? You mean those claims?
I don't even consider the MIC to be a "conspiracy theory," unless you're making a counter claim that the Defense Department does not exist, that there are no defense contractors, and that the government has spent $0 on national defense from 1945 to the present. Unless you're claiming that the US has no military at all, I don't see how you can criticize any statements about the military industrial complex.
Military–industrial complex - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence—economic, political, even spiritual—is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together. [emphasis added]
Which statement in the above passage would you consider to be "loopy"? Is there any statement above that you can identify as factually incorrect? Is there any conspiracy theory implied in the above statement?
So I'll just answer it in one fell swoop.
Not addressing Oswald & the other conspiracy theories.
You think the MIC Conspiracy theory is about the existence of the military?
No. That's loopy.
Many claim that the MIC sends us to war, using politicians as puppets.
In your opinion...
But just because it's your opinion, it doesn't mean you can claim to "know." That requires more evidence than just your opinion.
No, it's not.
It's not that important to me. You're the one who seemed so desperate to lambaste them as "loopy" and going out of your way to claim that they're "untestable." It's obviously important to YOU to go around and telling the world just how loopy and dangerous and horrible these conspiracy theories are. And all I'm asking is "what's the big deal?" Why is it so important to you? Why so fearful?
I posted a link to the Wikipedia article, and nowhere in there does it contain the word "conspiracy." You're the only one in the world I know of who considers it to be a "conspiracy theory." Others would just call it "business as usual."
Desperation...fearful...what ironic accusations from
one who claims testability, but presents nothing.
I didn't claim testability. I merely requested that you provide me with an original quoted example of a specific theory which YOU claim to be "untestable." You refused to do so. So, there we are.
I inferred a claim of testability from the artful
dancing around the claim, ie, when I claim it
isn't, & you argue against the claim.
Are you just trying to win arguments by
embedding plausible deniability to vague
wording?
It may only seem that way to you because your apparent goal is to merely lambaste, mock, and ridicule ideas you don't favor and dismiss them as "conspiracy theories," rather than discuss them in earnest.
It's sufficient you tell Italians that Putin opposes George Soros, and they will worship Putin as a god.
An example?
If people know the CIA is bad, what can they do? Nothing.
I suspect you're projecting a lot of your own views onto what all Italians think.
They constantly make surveys on national TV.I suspect you're projecting a lot of your own views onto what all Italians think.
It turns out Putin is still liked, despite the war.
Only in Italy...apparently.
In the first survey: Zelensky should come into terms with Putin 60%
In the second survey: Italy should negotiate with Russia 69%
Attachments
I don't know what TV you watch. Here's a report on a survey from last year:
What do Italians think of the war in Ukraine? - Decode39
Most blame Putin, approve of sanctions, welcome Ukrainian refugees and cut energy consumption to help. But some draw the line at arming Kyiv.
decode39.com
Even Meloni, as far right as she is, has continued to support Ukraine and oppose Putin's invasion.
Berlusconi blames Ukraine war on Zelenskyy, chafes Meloni
Italian former Premier Silvio Berlusconi has once again put himself at odds with current Premier Giorgia Meloni by openly criticizing her for meeting with Ukraine’s leader, whom he blamed for the nearly year-old Russian invasion.
Again - please don't project your pro-Putin views on all of Italy.
Edit to Add: i see you added a survey. A 60/40 split is hardly a united answer. Secondly, supporting a ceasefire or negotiations is not the same as support for Putin or his invasion.
I don't know what TV you watch. Here's a report on a survey from last year:
What do Italians think of the war in Ukraine? - Decode39
Most blame Putin, approve of sanctions, welcome Ukrainian refugees and cut energy consumption to help. But some draw the line at arming Kyiv.
Even Meloni, as far right as she is, has continued to support Ukraine and oppose Putin's invasion.
Berlusconi blames Ukraine war on Zelenskyy, chafes Meloni
Italian former Premier Silvio Berlusconi has once again put himself at odds with current Premier Giorgia Meloni by openly criticizing her for meeting with Ukraine’s leader, whom he blamed for the nearly year-old Russian invasion.apnews.com
Again - please don't project your pro-Putin views on all of Italy.
Edit to Add: i see you added a survey. A 60/40 split is hardly a united answer. Secondly, supporting a ceasefire or negotiations is not the same as support for Putin or his invasion.
If Italians hate Putin so much, why didn't they vote for the Democratic Party?
that is, the only party that has always spoken against Putin, since 2010. That is, before all this started.
The other parties have never taken such a clear stance against Putin.
If Italians hate Putin so much, why didn't they vote for the Democratic Party?
that is, the only party that has always spoken against Putin, since 2010. That is, before all this started.
The other parties have never taken such a clear stance against Putin.
Again you're talking about Italians as though you all think the same. You don't. And people vote for reasons other than their opinions on Putin.
Think, Estro. Think.
The topic here is: whether Russia is perceived as an enemy, or not.
My answer is: no. In my country Russia has never been perceived as an enemy.
Not even now, because it deals with a territorial dispute between Ukraine and Russia that has nothing to do with us.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
They'd lick the blood of innocent children right off his boots.
If those children were really innocent,They'd lick the blood of innocent children right off his boots.
they wouldn't have bled on his boots.
Sorry...I just had to post that.