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Russian chest thumping - Chinese incursions

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Attitudes that I sense....
But if they've both done bad things,
then they're both equally bad. Only
those entirely without sin may criticize.

We've no modern equivalent of Caesar's
wife to weigh in, eh. Anyway, I also sense
that there are 2 kinds of Russia supporters...

1) Those who prefer Russia because of
hostility to USA.
2) Those who share Russian values & goals,
eg, expanding Russia to include all former lands,
preserving a conservative Christian order,
belief that ethnic Russians elsewhere must be
defended at all cost against Nazi regimes.
I think the issue is further complicated by the type 2 supporters now being able to hide themselves among the type 1 supporters, as negative attitudes towards the USA (earned or otherwise) become a useful camouflage for the pro-authoritarian. Kind of like how issues with immigration provide a convenient cover for people with racist ideologies, or issues with Israel provide a cover for anti-Semites.

Of course, there are also a large number of people who just sincerely believe that, morally, anything the US does is bad, and therefore anything that is not in US geopolitical interests is good. I think it's sad so many people have adopted such shallow thinking.

Darn kids these days...
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think the issue is further complicated by the type 2 supporters now being able to hide themselves among the type 1 supporters, as negative attitudes towards the USA (earned or otherwise) become a useful camouflage for the pro-authoritarian.
It depends on what you mean by authoritarian. Because our Prime Minister has been called fascist and authoritarian so I can't understand any more who is what and what is who.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
You could nominate Putin for the Nobel Peace
Prize for liberating Ukraine from the Nazis.

If the narrative is that Soros is behind the current Kiev regime, Italians will roll red carpets at Putin, and will kiss his feet.
You can't even imagine what signifies to bring up Soros in Italy.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
If the narrative is that Soros is behind the current Kiev regime, Italians will roll red carpets at Putin, and will kiss his feet.
You can't even imagine what signifies to bring up Soros in Italy.
How do you know Soros doesn't control Putin,
using him to assemble a gigantic post-Soviet
empire that Soros would own?
Italians are just pawns of Soros via Putin the
puppet.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
How do you know Soros doesn't control Putin,
using him to assemble a gigantic post-Soviet
empire that Soros would own?
Italians are just pawns of Soros via Putin the
puppet.
I think Russians elect their presidents wisely.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think Russians elect their presidents wisely.
Americans elected someone called Hussein, a few years after Nine Eleven. I could affirm this is Stockholm Syndrome, probably, but I won't.
Wisdom is a tricky thing....wisdom to achieve what?
If the populace wants censorship, security, conquest,
& preservation of conservative Christian values, then
you might be right about their being "wise".
But the Russians who keep falling out of windows of
buildings, or sit in prison for speaking out would disagree.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Wisdom is a tricky thing....wisdom to achieve what?
If the populace wants censorship, security, conquest,
& preservation of conservative Christian values, then
you might be right about their being "wise".
But the Russians who keep falling out of windows of
buildings, or sit in prison for speaking out would disagree.

You are an American. I am a European.
Try to see things from my European perspective.
As a European I saw that in 2010, Americans started having convulsions about the project of Nordstream, threatening Europeans and telling them not to buy gas from Russians.
In 2010 there was no war. Nothing. No hostility.

Analyzing the behavior of the Pentagon and the CIA throughout these 13 years....I think their credibility is below zero. Below any threshold of tolerability.
Because there are certain economic interests and this war is probably the result of something that originated many years ago.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
You are an American. I am a European.
Try to see things from my European perspective.
As a European I saw that in 2010, Americans started having convulsions about the project of Nordstream, threatening Europeans and telling them not to buy gas from Russians.
In 2010 there was no war. Nothing. No hostility.

Analyzing the behavior of the Pentagon and the CIA throughout these 13 years....I think their credibility is below zero. Below any threshold of tolerability.
Because there are certain economic interests and this war is probably the result of something that originated many years ago.
We have different values, exhibited by Italy's
siding with Hitler & Putin. To side with Putin,
one must see USA, Prez, Congress, & the
Pentagon as The Great Satan. This enables
making Putin the hero, & USA the villain, &
entirely ignoring the inescapable fact that
Russia is trying to invade Ukraine by bombing
it into the stone age.

In short, your guys on the other side of the pond
can ignore the forest by pointing a trees.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Leftish Putin apologists continually remind me
of something....
I can't find it, even after searching the internet
many times using different search engines.
Long ago, there was a Bloom County cartoon
in which the lawyer, Steve Dallas, travelled thru
time seeking out new clients.
In one, he sat counselling a forlorn looking
Adolf Hitler, who was lamenting...
"I'm a victim too."

With enuf tap dancing, one could blame USA,
the Jews, & maybe even George Soros for WW2.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
What are these unnamed "economic interests"?

I believe there are certain moneyed elites (we are speaking trillionaires) who thirst and hunger for the economic resources the Russian Federation owns. Natural gas and oil, mainly.
And the only way to obtain them is to dethrone the wicked tsar that watches over them.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
We have different values, exhibited by Italy's
siding with Hitler & Putin. To side with Putin,
one must see USA, Prez, Congress, & the
Pentagon as The Great Satan. This enables
making Putin the hero, & USA the villain, &
entirely ignoring the inescapable fact that
Russia is trying to invade Ukraine by bombing
it into the stone age.

In short, your guys on the other side of the pond
can ignore the forest by pointing a trees.

As if the random citizen in the US had something in common with Rockefeller, Warburg or JP Morgan.
No.
Those are just an insignificant, stateless élites that have power over the CIA and the Pentagon.
Simplifying things doesn't work with me, I am sorry.
I love the American commoners. I love the US Constitution.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I believe there are certain moneyed elites (we are speaking trillionaires) who thirst and hunger for the economic resources the Russian Federation owns. Natural gas and oil, mainly.
And the only way to obtain them is to dethrone the wicked tsar that watches over them.
Who are these "certain moneyed elites"
& how do you imagine that they'll acquire
Russian resources?
 
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