Salvation

[smokydot]

The criticism of works is a misinterpretation that is out of context with Paul’s letters to gentiles that did not understand the Jewish context and background of Christ that taught of the importance of the works of faith and covenant. This is because the gentiles were dominated by Hellenistic philosophy that believed in the scales of Mott. The Hellenistic gentiles believed that sometime after death a soul would arrive at the golden gates of heaven where they would be met by Mott who had a scale in his possession. All of the good deeds of a soul were placed on the right side of the scale and all their evil deeds were placed on the left side of the scale. If the scale tipped to the right Mott admitted the soul into heaven. If the scale tipped to the left the soul was sent to hell.

During the time of Paul the Hellenistic gentiles developed the idea that if they stocked pilled enough “good” deeds they were justified in some fun “evil” deeds. Sort of like if someone was loyal to their spouse all year that it was okay to have a fun night once of year of wild adultery. Paul taught that such concepts concerning “good” deeds would not help one bit as a justification before G-d. Paul never taught that the works and deeds of covenant (in other words loyalty to covenants) were not necessary in order to have the gift of faith.

Jesus clearly taught that obedience to commandments was necessary before a person could have any claim to having been forgiven or to have received grace from G-d. The NT is very clear that anyone that says they love G-d and are not obedient to the commandments is not is not a disciple of Christ but is not an honest person to be believed. I recommend you take the words of Jesus to heart and turn away from teachers that deceive the “sheep” in any way from being obedient to their covenants.

Zadok

The Old Covenant,
through the old mediator Moses,
conditioned on law keeping (If you obey me, I will be our God, and you will be my people.)
has been abolished (Eph 2:15) because it is
inferior, of lesser promises, faulty, obsolete (Heb 8:6-13),
and replaced with
the New Covenant,
through the new mediator Jesus Christ,
conditioned on faith in Jesus Christ, and is
superior, of greater promises, perfect and everlasting (Heb 8:6-13).

 

[smokydot]

If Jesus Christ was not my Savior and Lord there would be no point in posting about Jesus teachings. -Matt 28vs19,20; 24v14.

Well, there could be.
We might do that if we think Jesus is a great teacher or moralist, like Ghandi,
but do not have saving faith in him.

By the two terms do you mean 'Savior' and 'Lord'?
Savior can also mean Deliverer. I believe Jesus will ultimately save or deliver us from danger or destruction. Remember the angel told Mary that Jesus would save his people from their sins? Only Jesus can fulfill that role.

By savior, the NT means he saves from the just wrath of God on our sin by our faith in him.
By Lord, the NT means master.

Belief in Jesus ransom sacrifice is the basis for our salvation.

Does the NT indicate this is the exclusive basis for salvation for all human beings?

Lord is a title of respect and not a personal name but sometimes used in place of a divine name.
There are two [2] LORD/Lord's mentioned at Psalm 110v1.
The one LORD, in all capitals, is where the tetragrammaton [YHWH] stood which are the four letters that stood for God's name.- Psalm 83v18
The other 'Lord', not in all capitals, stands for Jesus' name.
So what that means in my life is the same as in the model prayer Jesus gave us at Matthew 6 vs 9,13 and Luke 11 vs2-4 that God's name should be hallowed or made holy, sanctified.

Agree, spiritual works, and Jesus gave us the illustration of the good Samaritan to show us that we can broaden out in our love for others. -John 13vs34,35.

Repentance is
repentance from sin or sinful deeds.
David [Psalm 51v11] showed heartfelt repentance.
So yes, repentance would be shown by the actions of obedience.

What distinguishes NT Christianity from all other religions is that salvation does not involve works or lawkeeping, it is all free grace (unmerited favor);
and works or lawkeeping, experientially and practically, must not be what we rely on in any degree to make us right with God.
That righteousness is by grace alone, and is a gift through faith which we do not attempt to pay for in any way.

Then what is the purpose of obedience?
It simply shows that our spirits have received this gift of grace, but we don't use obedience to try to make us right with God, or to earn what is free grace.

 

[smokydot]

I gave you my response. You will interpret it as you will regardless. My faith is in the truth.
I gave you my reference point. I am a disciple of christ under the tutorage of the holy spirit. I am not a christian of any creed, I take no oaths. I was baptized by the church with water and thereafter in christ by fire and the holy spirit.

That offers some clarification.
Thank you.

You are not asking me for truth, you seek whether I am in compliance with your understanding. You are reaching for a verdict.

 

[smokydot]

Another way to regard repentance is the reorientation of the pentacle of the senses.
Whereas before we sought to make amends for injustice, demanding payment or sacrifice we now search out only god and his kingdom, god's good mercy. We receive what we ask for.

I'm sure you'll understand if I just stick with metanoia.

We have been suspicious of our brother at best to vicious at worst and we feel justified in our regard of him because we claim to know the difference between good and evil, having good judgment. The fact is that we do not demonstrate that this is the case. Our lives absent any real measure of accounting is a process of unrelenting arbitration. Each verdict leads to another charge. Injustice is an imbalance of accounts. The only verdict that leaves nothing owing is not guilty.

Does this circumlocution really work for you on planet earth?

 

[thedope]

I'm sure you'll understand if I just stick with metanoia.

No I don't know what that word means, is it English?

Does this circumlocution really work for you on planet earth?

Do you have a substantive objection?

 

[smokydot]

No I don't know what that word means, is it English?

Greek

Do you have a substantive objection?

To each his own. . .

 

[smokydot]

No one knows the hour of his coming because love waits on invitation, not time.

No. . .no one knows the hour of his coming because God is the only one who knows and he has not revealed it to anyone.

 

[thedope]

Greek

Seems like it to me.

To each his own. . .

You are generous.

 

[smokydot]

I desire mercy not sacrifice. Mastery through love, not obedient behavior.

Obedient behavior is because of love.

We can do a thing and then do another different thing but we can only be what we are.

Those in Jesus Chirst are obedient.

The child of god has not usurped the power of god, he only dreamed it so after succumbing to deep sleep.

A true child of God has no desire to usurp the power of God, nor does it dream of doing so.

 

[smokydot]

He who believes in me believes not in me, but he who sent me.

Jesus Christ is not a personality to be worshiped but revered as the figure head of true principle.

That's not what the NT says.

No one can see the face of god and survive they say,

"They say" is God's Word written.

god transcends all forms.

That's what it means to have no form.

 

[thedope]

No. . .no one knows the hour of his coming because God is the only one who knows and he has not revealed it to anyone.

How do you know that, has god revealed to you that he has not revealed it to anyone?
Every sin may be forgiven except blaspheme against the holy spirit. The holy spirit is our communication and vehicle of communion in god. Love does not wait on time but invitation.

 

[ninerbuff]

No. . .no one knows the hour of his coming because God is the only one who knows and he has not revealed it to anyone.

Of course not. To make a statement of when it comes and then for it not to happen would mean religion is a farce.

 

[smokydot]

John 14;11

You have no written standard.

That's not the way the NT sees it.

Texts are interpreted. God's word is a living word, written in the heart of those who love him.
The standard that you so arrogantly proclaim is a theology developed over time by men, men who teach as doctrine the precepts of men.

The standard I proclaim is the Word of God written.

 

[smokydot]

Written tradition begins as oral tradition. I.e. as you say except for luke who learned from Paul, etc...

This Word of God written began in the eye-witness of its writers.

There is no doubt that scripture is beneficial but it is nothing if not informed of holy spirit. If we have not love than all other gifts are like crashing symbols or clanging gongs.

It's not just beneficial, it's authoritative.

I have supported my statements for your edification with those words attributed to the principals found in the bible.

You misunderstand and misapply the principles.

Newsflash, you cannot reserve the truth for certain situations and not others. The truth is true in all contexts. I am having a conversation with you.

And this conversation has been about the NT.

It is patently untrue that the author of every book in the new testament is contemporary to Jesus. If you want to make the point that you said written as in put pen to paper it is more so, many of the actual documents translated from are dated to the second century and later.

It is patently true that the writers claim to be contemporaries of Jesus, and they weren't lying.

I am exact and lawful with my expressions.

But not with your understandings and applications.

You are prejudiced in yours.
Jesus did not say convict and incarcerate,

The NT supports capital punishment.

there is scriptural basis for what I say.

According to the NT, a lot of it is misapplied

Rather judge not , love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Learning
With god all things are possible. There are no idle thoughts and we are liable for every careless word we utter. Again you attempt to place walls around the truth so that the truth applies only to your perspective.

The truth applies as it is written.

 

[thedope]

That's not the way the NT sees it.

I think you might be confused, ET has eyes, not NT.

The standard I proclaim is the Word of God written.

Very well we live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of god.
What version of word of god written, contains your standards.

 

[smokydot]

The greatest commandment is that we love god with all our heart and strength and the next that we love our brother as ourselves and these two fulfill the whole law.

Salvation in Jesus Christ is not about the law, it is about grace.

It is by his words that a man is justified and by his words he is condemned. It is not what goes into a man that defiles him but what comes out. Forgive and you are forgiven, do not forgive and nor will your father forgive you. Judge not lest ye be judged. Give to him who asks of you. When you pray do so in secret. Do not worry what you shall wear or what you shall eat for your father knows you need these things.
Go and learn what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice. Who is my mother or brother or sister those who do the will of the father. Sin no more.

Obedience does not save us. Only grace through faith in Jesus Christ saves us.

Do not let your left hand know what the right hand doing, mastery is to pick your life up and lay it down at will.

what sacrifice?

 

[smokydot]

How do you know that, has god revealed to you that he has not revealed it to anyone?

That's what the NT says.

Every sin may be forgiven except blaspheme against the holy spirit. The holy spirit is our communication and vehicle of communion in god.

How does one blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

Love does not wait on time but invitation.

That, plus $1.50, will get you a cup of coffee.

 

[thedope]

This Word of God written began in the eye-witness of its writers.

What eye witness reported on events that occurred when Jesus was alone in the wilderness?

It's not just beneficial, it's authoritative.

As is the holy spirit.

You misunderstand and misapply the principles.

The fruit of my life says otherwise. What do you know of my practice?

And this conversation has been about the NT.

I thought it was about salvation.

It is patently true that the writers claim to be contemporaries of Jesus, and they weren't lying.

I don't recall such a statement in the book of matt., for instance

But not with your understandings and applications.

again, what do you know of my practice?

The NT supports capital punishment.

You are the salt of the earth.
You must condemn to justify your unwillingness to forgive.

The truth applies as it is written.

The truth applies whether written of not. The truth applies regardless if recognized or not. What is false, by definition, is not true.

 

[smokydot]

That's not the way the NT sees it.

I think you might be confused, ET has eyes, not NT.

Who's confused?

Very well we live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of god.

Yes, it is our food, as was the manna in the desert.
And the text says, "man lives on every word. . ." as his food.

What version of word of god written, contains your standards.

KJV, NIV, RSV, NAS, NI, etc., etc., etc.

 

[thedope]

That's what the NT says.

You would be the first to know the moment god decides to tell anyone?

How does one blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

to treat it disrespectfully in word or action.

That, plus $1.50, will get you a cup of coffee.

Depends on the company and the desire for it.