Same Sex Marriage

[Christian Pilgrim]

All these beliefs mean less than nothing to non-religious people, remember that. Wasn't divorce a sin as well? How man American's do you figured have had sex before marriage (heterosexual) and later became married. Why don't Christians protest against these people as well? Everybody is a sinner at some point. According to the bible, I would say 99% of the population is going to hell.

I see great hypocrisy in the church when parts of the church protest same sex marriages when the church has the same percentages of sexual sins as those outside the church. Pre-marital sex, adultery, and divorce rates are the same between believers and unbelievers alike. Heck, I read somewhere that pornography is a problem for many Christian men. I tend to lean that same sex marriages should be law throughout the country. But, I'm not sure homosexual Christians can use this law to justify same sex marriages within the church. I'm not sure what I believe within same sex marriages for Christians.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Good question. I think marriage is a godly union and institution designed by the One True God. Therefore, whatever God joins together let no man separate, regardless of what someone believes or does not believe. I did not get married in the church, even though my wife and I are Christians. The secular husband and Hindu husband are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church, even though they might not understand this as a Christian can understand it. So, marriage is a blessing from the Lord for Christians and non-Christians alike.

Strange, so you're saying that the Christians are the owners of marriage because it was designed by God and all the hethens and pagans are living in ignorance and that's ok because God still loves them. Did i get that wrong?

From the Wiki Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From the early Christian era (30 to 325 CE), marriage was thought of as primarily a private matter, with no religious or other ceremony being required. Until 1545, Christian marriages in Europe were by mutual consent, declaration of intention to marry and upon the subsequent physical union of the parties. The couple would promise verbally to each other that they would be married to each other; the presence of a priest or witnesses was not required. This promise was known as the "verbum." If freely given and made in the present tense (e.g., "I marry you"), it was unquestionably binding; if made in the future tense ("I will marry you"), it would constitute a betrothal. One of the functions of churches from the Middle Ages was to register marriages, which was not obligatory.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Strange, so you're saying that the Christians are the owners of marriage because it was designed by God and all the hethens and pagans are living in ignorance and that's ok because God still loves them. Did i get that wrong?

From the Wiki Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Genesis 2:24 (Show me Genesis 2)
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:5 (Show me Matthew 19)
and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

Mark 10:7 (Show me Mark 10)
‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,[1]
[1]Some manuscripts omit and hold fast to his wife

Ephesians 5:31 (Show me Ephesians 5)
31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

 

[eugenius]

I see great hypocrisy in the church when parts of the church protest same sex marriages when the church has the same percentages of sexual sins as those outside the church. Pre-marital sex, adultery, and divorce rates are the same between believers and unbelievers alike. Heck, I read somewhere that pornography is a problem for many Christian men. I tend to lean that same sex marriages should be law throughout the country. But, I'm not sure homosexual Christians can use this law to justify same sex marriages within the church. I'm not sure what I believe within same sex marriages for Christians.

great post, well written.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Genesis 2:24 (Show me Genesis 2)
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Matthew 19:5 (Show me Matthew 19)
and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

Mark 10:7 (Show me Mark 10)
‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife,[1]
[1]Some manuscripts omit and hold fast to his wife

Ephesians 5:31 (Show me Ephesians 5)
31 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.”

Why should what the Christian Bible says have any relevance to the Hindus, Buddhists or any other religion? Your suggestion that their marriages are Christian but they don't know it is rather insulting.

Also, there were marriages in existance long before the Christians or even the Jews existed. Why wouldn't one of the older forms of marriage be the real thing instead of the recent writing of a bunch of shepherds who bought and sold their women like the sheep they cared for.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks for the information. I am not a Roman Catholic Christian, and I know the Catholic Church tends to change with the times on these difficult issues.

I don't know about that - I think there may have been times when it was more difficult to, say, convince a bishop to approve a marriage to an "infidel", but the doctrine was the same.

If Scripture becomes final authority, God commands Christians to marry only Christians, but Protestants break this command all the time.

Scripture also says that prohibitions on marriage can come from "hypocritical liars" following "the teachings of demons", so to me it kinda seems like you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The Bible also says quite a bit how humans only "know in part and prophesy in part", so I'm not sure how "Biblical Christians" can be so sure that their interpretation is correct... on any issue.

I know many men make half-hearted professions of faith to marry a Christian women. Men get dragged to church all the time because of their Christian wives. I'm glad to see that you are attending church.

Actually, I've stopped attending church. I found the experience to be very saddening and draining, and served only to mentally alienate from Christianity even more. These days, my wife goes to church on her own while I stay home and everyone ends up happier - me because I don't feel like I've just watched a kid happily drag around a dog that nobody has told her is dead, and my wife because she doesn't have to deal with the funk I would get into after Mass.

Heck, I think you know that I'm a Calvinist, so if you are meant to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, this is how God designed it to be. If you are an Elect of God, you will come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I knew that.

I think it's better that we not get into a discussion of Calvinism.

Why do you think you married a Christian women, by fate and chance? The answer could be much bigger than you think.

But by the same token, my Christian wife married an atheist. Maybe there's some fate and chance in the other direction instead.

 

[Autodidact]

I guess there's three questions:

1. Should Christians/Christianity recognize same-sex marriage within their Church?
2. Should society/the law permit or recognize same-sex marriage?
3. Do I want to marry? Is marriage right for me?

1. is not really my department.
2. Clearly yes, regardless of 1. This where the action is.
3. Actually, no. It's complicated. Marriage has a long history, a lot of baggage. Some of it is related to people as property, legalized rape, arranged marriage and a lot of other stuff that has nothing to do with my relationship, nor do I want it to. I do want to celebrate our relationship and declare my commitment to her, but I don't want either of us to get involved with "owning" the other. We feel strongly that our relationship is for us to create and structure as we think best.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Why should what the Christian Bible says have any relevance to the Hindus, Buddhists or any other religion? Your suggestion that their marriages are Christian but they don't know it is rather insulting.

Also, there were marriages in existance long before the Christians or even the Jews existed. Why wouldn't one of the older forms of marriage be the real thing instead of the recent writing of a bunch of shepherds who bought and sold their women like the sheep they cared for.

I believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God. I believe Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah (The Christ). Therefore, all good gifts come from above from the Father of Heavenly lights, regardless if you worship of acknowledge Him or not. Marriage is a gift from God, even if you don’t believe in Him. And yes, I know some will say their marriage is from Hell. But you know my response to that, right?

Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. – James from the Bible

 

[eugenius]

I believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the One True God. I believe Jesus of Nazareth is the promised Messiah (The Christ). Therefore, all good gifts come from above from the Father of Heavenly lights, regardless if you worship of acknowledge Him or not. Marriage is a gift from God, even if you don’t believe in Him. And yes, I know some will say their marriage is from Hell. But you know my response to that, right?

Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. – James from the Bible

Great, good for you! And I don't mean that in an insulting manner. But many of us do not believe that, so why should we have to comply by your rules when we don't share the same faith. Why are you attacking non religious people when your own kind are breaking these religious laws every second of every day.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I guess there's three questions:

1. Should Christians/Christianity recognize same-sex marriage within their Church?
2. Should society/the law permit or recognize same-sex marriage?
3. Do I want to marry? Is marriage right for me?

1. is not really my department.
2. Clearly yes, regardless of 1. This where the action is.
3. Actually, no. It's complicated. Marriage has a long history, a lot of baggage. Some of it is related to people as property, legalized rape, arranged marriage and a lot of other stuff that has nothing to do with my relationship, nor do I want it to. I do want to celebrate our relationship and declare my commitment to her, but I don't want either of us to get involved with "owning" the other. We feel strongly that our relationship is for us to create and structure as we think best.

I can agree with this posting, and thanks for sharing!

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Great, good for you! And I don't mean that in an insulting manner. But many of us do not believe that, so why should we have to comply by your rules when we don't share the same faith. Why are you attacking non religious people when your own kind are breaking these religious laws every second of every day.

I'm not sure what you are sharing. Do you mind clarifying your post?

 

[eugenius]

I'm not sure what you are sharing. Do you mind clarifying your post?

I'm saying that why are Christians hell bent on banning gay marriage? Don't gays have it hard enough?

Do unto others.............

Tolerance..........

Equality..........

None of these are being practiced. Why should these people have to abide by YOUR religion? Please explain. How would you feel if you were forced to abide by Sharia Law with regards to marriage?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I'm saying that why are Christians hell bent on banning gay marriage? Don't gays have it hard enough?

Do unto others.............

Tolerance..........

Equality..........

None of these are being practiced. Why should these people have to abide by YOUR religion? Please explain. How would you feel if you were forced to abide by Sharia Law with regards to marriage?

Please read post 41 again. I am Christian and believe same sex marriages should be legal.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Don't gays have it hard enough?

I saw how you slipped that in there...

 

[Autodidact]

Great, good for you! And I don't mean that in an insulting manner. But many of us do not believe that, so why should we have to comply by your rules when we don't share the same faith. Why are you attacking non religious people when your own kind are breaking these religious laws every second of every day.

Where did Christian attack anyone?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I saw how you slipped that in there...

LOL... you guys are crazy (but fun). Do you see why I have my mighty armor on?

The Whole Armor of God

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, 19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

LOL... you guys are crazy (but fun). Do you see why I have my mighty armor on?

The Whole Armor of God

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14 Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16 In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18 praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, 19 and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

Don't forget the Holy Codpiece.

 

[eugenius]

Where did Christian attack anyone?

uhh excuse me? did you want to reneg on that one?

are you saying christians have never attacked and singled out the gay community?

 

[sojourner]

Of course it's not approved by Christianity; homosexuality itself is a sin.

Off topic: As a devout worshipper of Thor, I find your avatar/title highly offensive. If anti-Thor avatars/titles are permitted then so should be anti-Christian avatars/titles.

Oh? It is? Funny, I know of at least one long-standing, mainstream denomination that approves gay marriage... my own leaves it up to the individual congregations.

 

[sojourner]

I think you make a good point. As a Christian, I think I am leaning that same sex marriages should be law throughout the country, but I'm not completely sure. I think the answer for a Christain gay or lesbian couple, the answer is not as clear. For the Christian couple, they would have to determine if same sex marriage is allowed or approved by their Christian God according to Scripture... at least IMO. A basic rule for Christians is that what is not done in faith is sin.

Scripture is rather unclear about the subject of homosexual marriage. Not discussed one single time.