Same Sex Marriage

[painted wolf]

no, because were called to help others do the right thing.

Like forcing others to convert or be killed? Very helpful.

wa:do

 

[Hospitaller]

Then you're inconsistent.

Here's my take on it: if the example of Jesus Christ Himself shows that the Christian point of view allows for "correct" arrangements besides heterosexual marriage, your original claim, i.e. that Adam and Eve serve as an example of what is "correct", is flawed to the point that it's useless.

no no no

just because ONE things right doesnt mean that everything else in that category is wrong or right also. God himself instituted both (heterosexual marriage and celibacy) as correct, because he created one and led a life as the other. There has never been an act of God which has led anyone to believe that homosexual marriage is correct.

 

[Hospitaller]

You mean shove your religion down others' throats? Why should I be forced to live by your religion's laws?

I've already found the right thing, thank you.

im not shoving it down your throat.
if you dont want to listen, then whyd you come here in the first place?
at least respect my views. i respectfully disagree with yours.

 

[Hospitaller]

Imposing your morals on others is not a very loving thing to do. You're denying same sex couples the right to make their own decisions. WHat gives you the right to make decisions for others?

its not me, but God through me.

and NO, that doesn't mean im God. geez think about this

 

[Hospitaller]

Thanks for sharing this. But this does not address the issue of civil law preventing same sex marriage. Christians have a different standard than the world. For example, if we used Christian standards to base our civil laws on sex, then divorce, pre-martial sex, fornication, pornography, and adultery would have to be illegal. We would also need legislation to punish those who look at women lustfully, therefore committing adultery of the heart. The ironic thing is that our pastors, priests, and church congregations would be guilty of breaking those Christian laws in the same degree as the unbelieving world. We are all sinners living in a fallen world. Who has never looked at a women with lust? Do you see my point? Do you have any official Roman Catholic doctrine that would prevent Catholics from supporting same sex marriage as civil law? The references above are instructions for Roman Catholic Christians too. It is not binding to unbelievers or non-Catholic Christians. I believe Scripture is silent in regards to same sex marriage for unbelievers and believers alike. I think the issue of abortion is not the same as same sex marriage since there is a life at stake.

actually, the problem of life is, in a sense, in the problem of same-sex marriage because through same-sex marriage there can be no life unless it is through un-natural causes. therefore, same-sex marriage is just another form of abusing our right to have sex because homosexuals have sex just for the pleasure (maybe other reasons), but definetley not for the child.

 

[darkendless]

its not me, but God through me.

and NO, that doesn't mean im God. geez think about this

Right...... i'm sorry i don't understand how YOUR faith in God should impact people with no faith in God. Its hard to respect your opinions when you believe a divine being is guiding you to purposely deny others of simple things in life that we all enjoy based on their orientation.
A Loving God would never inflict pain like this on his subjects. Either your God is a cruel God or you've been taught wrong.

 

[Hospitaller]

Actually, I was being sarcastic. I'm relatively sure that there's no such command in the Catechism.


Are you also called to "help others do the right thing" in other ways? For example, are you "called" to prohibit non-Christian forms of worship?

im relativley sure that there is some kind of command somewhere in the Catholic faith that instructs us to help others. I actually learned that before First Communion, probably from the Catechism. We dont prohibit non-Christian worship, were called to try to change it but respect it and those who do it.

 

[darkendless]

actually, the problem of life is, in a sense, in the problem of same-sex marriage because through same-sex marriage there can be no life unless it is through un-natural causes. therefore, same-sex marriage is just another form of abusing our right to have sex because homosexuals have sex just for the pleasure (maybe other reasons), but definetley not for the child.

To be honest, homosexuality will prolong humanities survivial. We're about 1 billion people overpopulated at the moment, and the world's population is increasing exponentially. We could do with a lot more homosexuals to be honest.

Religion could be considered an excuse for powerful men to control the weak and gullibal. I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality, and even if i did, why should i deny people the right to make their own decisions because i don't agree with it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

no no no

just because ONE things right doesnt mean that everything else in that category is wrong or right also.

Bingo! Give that man a cigar! Approval of opposite-sex marriage doesn't imply disapproval of other modes of living, such as unmarried celibacy or same-sex marriage.

God himself instituted both (heterosexual marriage and celibacy) as correct, because he created one and led a life as the other.

Aww. I'm disappointed. By the first bit of your post, I really thought you'd got it. Let me try again:

Invoking Adam and Eve as the example for us to follow doesn't work, because doing so condemns Jesus and the celibate priesthood (as well as all the OT prophets and holy men with multiple wives).

You rightly pointed out that God's approval of opposite-sex marriage doesn't necessarily imply disapproval of unmarried celibacy, however, you seem not to realize that it's the exact same logic that leads us to conclude that it doesn't necessarily imply disapproval of same-sex marriage either.

There has never been an act of God which has led anyone to believe that homosexual marriage is correct.

Do you think God has ever given an explicit position on the issue of same-sex marriage at all?

 

[Hospitaller]

To be honest, homosexuality will prolong humanities survivial. We're about 1 billion people overpopulated at the moment, and the world's population is increasing exponentially. We could do with a lot more homosexuals to be honest.

Religion could be considered an excuse for powerful men to control the weak and gullibal. I don't see anything wrong with homosexuality, and even if i did, why should i deny people the right to make their own decisions because i don't agree with it?

maybe for now but if generation after generation continues to become homosexual, human life would decrease and probably end if it continued.

and neither the Catholic Church nor God is denying anyone their decision. Take it up with your government if you want homosexual marriage to be legal.

 

[Hospitaller]

Bingo! Give that man a cigar! Approval of opposite-sex marriage doesn't imply disapproval of other modes of living, such as unmarried celibacy or same-sex marriage.


Aww. I'm disappointed. By the first bit of your post, I really thought you'd got it. Let me try again:

Invoking Adam and Eve as the example for us to follow doesn't work, because doing so condemns Jesus and the celibate priesthood (as well as all the OT prophets and holy men with multiple wives).

You rightly pointed out that God's approval of opposite-sex marriage doesn't necessarily imply disapproval of unmarried celibacy, however, you seem not to realize that it's the exact same logic that leads us to conclude that it doesn't necessarily imply disapproval of same-sex marriage either.


Do you think God has ever given an explicit position on the issue of same-sex marriage at all?

you obviously didnt read the part about Jesus. Because Jesus led the celibate life is why I now see it as correct. If i had lived before Jesus, who knows, maybe i would have seen it as incorrect!

and about the explicit position, God has placed himself opposed to same-sex marriage. thats why i said that no act of God has ever led anyone to believe that homosexual marriage is correct.

man!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

im relativley sure that there is some kind of command somewhere in the Catholic faith that instructs us to help others. I actually learned that before First Communion, probably from the Catechism. We dont prohibit non-Christian worship, were called to try to change it but respect it and those who do it.

So then why can that respect not be granted to those who would practice same-sex marriage?

I mean, if the Church is content to not push the issue on something as important as, say, baptism, why isn't it able to let the same-sex marriage issue slide as well? Which do you think is the greater threat to humanity and salvation:

- a relatively small number of people entering into same-sex marriages (especially considering that the alternative would probably be for them to be living unmarried in homosexual relationships)

- the vast numbers of people who have not experienced the saving, sacramental grace of baptism?

So... why is it a priority of the Church to prohibit same-sex civil marriage between non-Christians and not a priority to institute mandatory baptism and religious education classes for non-Catholics?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

you obviously didnt read the part about Jesus. Because Jesus led the celibate life is why I now see it as correct. If i had lived before Jesus, who knows, maybe i would have seen it as incorrect!

Right - so since Jesus, we know that Adam and Eve's example is not the be-all and end-all of human relationships. Hence why it carries no weight on the issue of same-sex marriage.

and about the explicit position, God has placed himself opposed to same-sex marriage.

Yes? How, when and where? Is this stated in the Bible? In the Catechism? In stone tablets on a mountain somewhere?

 

[Autodidact]

ok the logic... heaven is a holy place.no sin or evil can get in so god(he's so smart).made himself a human.we call him jesus. when god became human he linked all of mankind to himself.adopted, when he died he got to go to heaven because he never sinned . so in a since flesh made it to heaven .through that path, his way ,you to can get there to... john 1 verse one" and the word became flesh and dwelt amoung us"

Logic?!?! Do you even know what logic is?

 

[Hospitaller]

So then why can that respect not be granted to those who would practice same-sex marriage?

I mean, if the Church is content to not push the issue on something as important as, say, baptism, why isn't it able to let the same-sex marriage issue slide as well? Which do you think is the greater threat to humanity and salvation:

- a relatively small number of people entering into same-sex marriages (especially considering that the alternative would probably be for them to be living unmarried in homosexual relationships)

- the vast numbers of people who have not experienced the saving, sacramental grace of baptism?

So... why is it a priority of the Church to prohibit same-sex civil marriage between non-Christians and not a priority to institute mandatory baptism and religious education classes for non-Catholics?

careful, respect doesn't neccesarily mean complete and unconditional acceptance.

and just because the homosexual issue is "relativley" small now doesn't mean it wont grow to be as big as the baptism issue. and later it wont just be same-sex problems.

people are going to start wanting to marry clones, robots etc. sooner or later.

 

[Autodidact]

actually, the problem of life is, in a sense, in the problem of same-sex marriage because through same-sex marriage there can be no life unless it is through un-natural causes. therefore, same-sex marriage is just another form of abusing our right to have sex because homosexuals have sex just for the pleasure (maybe other reasons), but definetley not for the child.

I now it's difficult when you're morally retarded by the influence of religion, but if you think really hard, and try to imagine a mature relationship, can you think of any reason at all why two people might want to be physically intimate, other than just for the pleasure?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

maybe for now but if generation after generation continues to become homosexual, human life would decrease and probably end if it continued.

If they became homosexual... or celibate priests, monks and nuns.

and neither the Catholic Church nor God is denying anyone their decision. Take it up with your government if you want homosexual marriage to be legal.

I call shenanigans. The Catholic Church has consistently made major efforts against the legalization of same-sex marriage anywhere the issue has arisen. It was a major voice against same-sex marriage before it was legalized here. This Pope and the one before have both put out statements condemning the legalization of same-sex civil marriage. More recently, two of the largest donors to the "Yes" side on California's Proposition 8 were the Knights of Columbus and the American Council of Catholic Bishops.

 

[Hospitaller]

I now it's difficult when you're morally retarded by the influence of religion, but if you think really hard, and try to imagine a mature relationship, can you think of any reason at all why two people might want to be physically intimate, other than just for the pleasure?

ooo, thanks for the insult. yea, i felt the heat from that one.

and if you're lesbian and im so retarded, why dont you tell me some of those reasons?

 

[Autodidact]

maybe for now but if generation after generation continues to become homosexual, human life would decrease and probably end if it continued.

and neither the Catholic Church nor God is denying anyone their decision. Take it up with your government if you want homosexual marriage to be legal.

This argument is very comical. Hospitaller seems to think that homosexuality is so vastly more delightful than heterosexuality in every way that if we allowed people to engage in it, everybody would! Or maybe just Hospitaller, I don't know.

 

[Autodidact]

maybe for now but if generation after generation continues to become homosexual, human life would decrease and probably end if it continued.

and neither the Catholic Church nor God is denying anyone their decision. Take it up with your government if you want homosexual marriage to be legal.

btw, if everyone became a celibate religious, human life would also decrease and die out.