Same Sex Marriage

[Autodidact]

you obviously didnt read the part about Jesus. Because Jesus led the celibate life is why I now see it as correct. If i had lived before Jesus, who knows, maybe i would have seen it as incorrect!

and about the explicit position, God has placed himself opposed to same-sex marriage. thats why i said that no act of God has ever led anyone to believe that homosexual marriage is correct.

man!

I can't find that passage in my Bible--can you point it out to me?

 

[Autodidact]

ooo, thanks for the insult. yea, i felt the heat from that one.

and if you're lesbian and im so retarded, why dont you tell me some of those reasons?

*sigh* It's sad what religion does to people. It's love, Hospitaller. I'm sorry you're not familiar with it. It's one of the ways we express our love to each other.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

careful, respect doesn't neccesarily mean complete and unconditional acceptance.

No, but it can be comfortably stretched to include grudingly reluctant acquiescence for people who don't even belong to your religion.

and just because the homosexual issue is "relativley" small now doesn't mean it wont grow to be as big as the baptism issue. and later it wont just be same-sex problems.

I look forward to the day when the Church pushes their position on the issue of same-sex marriage with the force that they do about leaving all those people unbaptized: i.e. not opposing it for non-Catholics at all.

 

[Hospitaller]

If they became homosexual... or celibate priests, monks and nuns.


I call shenanigans. The Catholic Church has consistently made major efforts against the legalization of same-sex marriage anywhere the issue has arisen. It was a major voice against same-sex marriage before it was legalized here. This Pope and the one before have both put out statements condemning the legalization of same-sex civil marriage. More recently, two of the largest donors to the "Yes" side on California's Proposition 8 were the Knights of Columbus and the American Council of Catholic Bishops.

you and i both know that celibate priests, monks and nuns arent suddenly going to swell in numbers enough to influence the course of the earth. more people oppose them than support them, and there is a huge "recruitment" crisis right now as it is.

homosexuality on the other hand, is huge and supported by hundreds of millions.

the Church has influence on legal decisions but its ultimatley the legislative branch of a government who has the final say.

 

[Hospitaller]

No, but it can be comfortably stretched to include grudingly reluctant acquiescence for people who don't even belong to your religion.


I look forward to the day when the Church pushes their position on the issue of same-sex marriage with the force that they do about leaving all those people unbaptized: i.e. not opposing it for non-Catholics at all.

well, i can probably tell you right now as long as there is an organized Church, its never going to give up on the homosexuality issue. good luck with killing us all...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

you and i both know that celibate priests, monks and nuns arent suddenly going to swell in numbers enough to influence the course of the earth. more people oppose them than support them, and there is a huge "recruitment" crisis right now as it is.

homosexuality on the other hand, is huge and supported by hundreds of millions.

As are priests.

But perhaps you're right. So... explain to me how same-sex couples will have more children if they're unmarried rather than if they're married.

the Church has influence on legal decisions but its ultimatley the legislative branch of a government who has the final say.

You're moving the goalposts. The fact of the matter is that the Church has used every legal means at its disposal to do its darnedest to deny people their decision.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

well, i can probably tell you right now as long as there is an organized Church, its never going to give up on the homosexuality issue.

It sure seems like it did on baptism, so there may be hope yet.

good luck with killing us all...

No, that's not my style. Though I find it particular odd that a Catholic would bring something like that up in a discussion of doctrine, considering the Church's history. Kinda throwing stones from a glass house, don't you think?

 

[Autodidact]

well, i can probably tell you right now as long as there is an organized Church, its never going to give up on the homosexuality issue. good luck with killing us all...

Ha! It only took them 400 years to come round on the whole heliocentrism thing. Evolution only took 150. They don't decapitate Jews for refusing to convert, either. I'm confident the Church will accept Gay marriage as well, eventually.

 

[Autodidact]

well, i can probably tell you right now as long as there is an organized Church, its never going to give up on the homosexuality issue. good luck with killing us all...

No, unlike the Catholic Church, we usually don't kill those who disagree with us.

 

[Green Gaia]

im not shoving it down your throat.
if you dont want to listen, then whyd you come here in the first place?
at least respect my views. i respectfully disagree with yours.

How am I to respect views that believe I should be treated as a second-class citizen?

Like I said before, I don't care what your religion says about homosexuality or same sex marriage. Nor should I because I am not of your religion and I shouldn't be forced to follow its laws or dictates. My government should extend the same rights, privileges and obligations to me that it extends to you, plain and simple.

Do you agree with that or not?

 

[Green Gaia]

actually, the problem of life is, in a sense, in the problem of same-sex marriage because through same-sex marriage there can be no life unless it is through un-natural causes. therefore, same-sex marriage is just another form of abusing our right to have sex because homosexuals have sex just for the pleasure (maybe other reasons), but definetley not for the child.

Bollocks. My children are quite well cared for.

Many same sex couples today have children who would benefit not only in terms of protection but also the stability that marriage provides, from their parents being married. A recent survey by the Williams Project, a UCLA Law School think tank, found that forty percent of same gender couples aged 22 to 55 are raising children, about 5 percent of whom are adopted. What was once unheard of is now a fact of life; same sex couples are raising children and making their own families.

You don't have to like it, you don't have to let us in your church, but the government should treat us equally. Don't you agree?

 

[JMorris]

How am I to respect views that believe I should be treated as a second-class citizen?

Like I said before, I don't care what your religion says about homosexuality or same sex marriage. Nor should I because I am not of your religion and I shouldn't be forced to follow its laws or dictates. My government should extend the same rights, privileges and obligations to me that it extends to you, plain and simple.

Do you agree with that or not?

no one should be so tolerant as to tolerate introlerance

 

[Buttons*]

no one should be so tolerant as to tolerate introlerance

well then, intolerance is ok when you're not tolerating the intolerant? Does seem like quite a double edged sword there....

 

[Green Gaia]

no one should be so tolerant as to tolerate introlerance

No one should be so tolerant as to tolerate beliefs and policies that hurt others.

 

[JMorris]

No one should be so tolerant as to tolerate beliefs and policies that hurt others.

thats what i meant, you said it better than i, you win.......frubals i guess

 

[Peace]

*thanks to the universe I'm not Muslim*

Thanks to God I am a Muslim

 

[Peace]

I'm curious, does the Quran actually state that same sex marriage is a sin? I don't believe the Holy Bible states that same sex marriage is a sin.

In the Quran, Allah tells us that everything He created are in pairs. Allah says: “And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect” (Az-Zariyat: 49).
Of course what is meant by pairs is male and female, pairs of different kind.

Univerally marriage is known to be between a man and a woman. In Islam marriage is not only for sexual enjoyment but also for the establishment of a family on hygienic and safe foundations.

There are five references in the Qur'an, which have been cited as referring to gay and lesbian behavior. Some obviously deal with “effeminate men” and “masculine women.” The two main references to homosexual behavior are in Surah 7, verses 80 – 81, where the Qur’an says that:

*{We also sent Lut. He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation [ever] committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.}*​

​

Then Surah 26, verse 165 says that:

*{What! Of all creatures do ye come unto the males, and leave the wives your Lord created for you? Nay, but ye are forward folk.}*​

​

Both references relate to gay sexual activities; lesbian practices are not mentioned in the Qur'an. Lut is referred to as "Lot" in the Hebrew Scriptures. This passage is an apparent reference to the activities at Sodom and Gamorah.

It seems to imply that there was no homosexual behavior before it first appeared in Sodom. This is a uniquely Islamic concept; it does not appear in Jewish or Christian beliefs. The passage also links the sin of Sodom - the reason for its destruction - to homosexuality.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

In the Quran, Allah tells us that everything He created are in pairs. Allah says: “And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect” (Az-Zariyat: 49).
Of course what is meant by pairs is male and female, pairs of different kind.

Univerally marriage is known to be between a man and a woman. In Islam marriage is not only for sexual enjoyment but also for the establishment of a family on hygienic and safe foundations.

Does Islam explictly teach in official divine sources that same sex marriage is sin and prohibited? What happens if a man and women do not have children (family); does that make the marriage sinful or wrong in some sense according to Islam? Is homosexual behavior and/or marriage unlawful in countries ruled by an Islamic government? Are you aware that creatures apart from humans does not follow the male and female senario that you posted in regards to reproduction?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In the Quran, Allah tells us that everything He created are in pairs. Allah says: “And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect” (Az-Zariyat: 49).
Of course what is meant by pairs is male and female, pairs of different kind.

Why "of course"? I don't see how you make the leap from "pairs" to "pairs of male and female". It's not in the text as far as I can see, so where did you get the insight needed to make this conclusion?

And even assuming the "male and female" aspect you inferred, why do you think the verse is speaking about marriage? I think it's more straightforward to take the meaning of the verse as "Allah created a male version and a female version of each species". It doesn't necessarily have to be in reference to marriage or pair-bonding at all.

Univerally marriage is known to be between a man and a woman. In Islam marriage is not only for sexual enjoyment but also for the establishment of a family on hygienic and safe foundations.

But in some Islamic cultures, marriage isn't just known to be between a man and a woman; it can be between one man and several women. How do they reconcile this with the idea that you put forward that God commands people to enter into male-female pairs? One man and three women is not a pair.

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

But in some Islamic cultures, marriage isn't just known to be between a man and a woman; it can be between one man and several women. How do they reconcile this with the idea that you put forward that God commands people to enter into male-female pairs? One man and three women is not a pair.

LOL... but have you read the OT too? Have you read the life of Solomon in the book of Ecclesiastes? Did Abraham, Issac, or Jacob have multiple wives? Any Mormon Christians out there who would like to comment?