Satan and the Sanctity of Marriage

[JoStories]

I don't really see what that has to do with Paul or his culture?

Because, if we accept that Paul actually existed, he existed at the same time in history. Can you honestly not see this point? You state that the culture of the time was what he was writing about and this is simply not the case.

 

[leibowde84]

I saw heart touching story of two women, both in their 90's, who had been together as a couple for 70 YEARS, that got married recently in the state that had not allowed that. If that is not a testament to the longevity of same sex relationships, I don;t know what is.

So cute. I love stories like that. And, over the past few days I've heard tons of stories just like it. Something for America to celebrate for sure.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Uneducated doesn't seem to get the point across.

So, because saying uneducated doesn't get the point across, he had to specifically say women?
That isn't helping his case, but making it look worse, because now women are on a lower rung than the uneducated.

The culture was what it was, And Paul spoke accordingly.
You seem to be letting your feelings cloud your perspective, Just try taking a step back and things might become clearer.

It isn't clouding my perspective. It was customary for ancient Spartans to occasionally kill their slaves. It was just how there were and it was a part of their culture. That does not make that anymore ok than Paul not even being willing to judge positions of authority on a case-by-case basis, because educated or uneducated, women were not supposed to be in positions of authority over men. It may have acceptable in his time, but that doesn't make it good.

I don't really see what that has to do with Paul or his culture?

Because he specifically targeted women. Some women were educated, some women were in positions of authority, and while the general masses were not educated, according to Paul women cannot hold positions of authority over a man and they need to shut-up while they're in church.

 

[Jainarayan]

I don't really see what that has to do with Paul or his culture?

Because he lived in a world that was heavily dominated by Roman, Greek and Egyptian culture. Spartan women wore the pants in Spartan society. An Athenian woman asked a Spartan woman how it was that Spartan women had so much influence over the men. The Spartan woman replied "because only Spartan women give birth to Spartan men".

 

[JoStories]

So cute. I love stories like that. And, over the past few days I've heard tons of stories just like it. Something for America to celebrate for sure.

Well dear friend, I don't watch the news, nor the TV hardly ever so I just saw this one on AOL...briefly. So its the only one but I know you're right of course and it certainly is something to celebrate.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Have any of them interceded for you?

Why would you ever ask this? People claim circumstance and coincidence are evidence of "God interceding" ALL THE TIME - I know people, personally, who fall over themselves, claiming such things are evidence of God in droves. Is it so hard for you to believe that ANYONE else believing ANYTHING wouldn't also make the same claim about those circumstances and coincidence and attribute those things to intercession by THEIR OWN god(s)?

It is in questions and statements like this one that you betray your closed-mindedness.

 

[Thana]

So, because saying uneducated doesn't get the point across, he had to specifically say women?
That isn't helping his case, but making it look worse, because now women are on a lower rung than the uneducated.

No I meant it didn't get my point across, That's why I clarified with sheltered and unknowledgeable.

It isn't clouding my perspective. It was customary for ancient Spartans to occasionally kill their slaves. It was just how there were and it was a part of their culture. That does not make that anymore ok than Paul not even being willing to judge positions of authority on a case-by-case basis, because educated or uneducated, women were not supposed to be in positions of authority over men. It may have acceptable in his time, but that doesn't make it good.

So Paul was supposed to be some sort of revolutionary, Because 2000 years after his time, Our culture would deem his wrong?
Right. Because that's completely reasonable? lol.

 

[Thana]

Because he lived in a world that was heavily dominated by Roman, Greek and Egyptian culture. Spartan women wore the pants in Spartan society. An Athenian woman asked a Spartan woman how it was that Spartan women had so much influence over the men. The Spartan woman replied "because only Spartan women give birth to Spartan men".

He wasn't Greek or Roman or Egyptian, And they were still heavily patriarchal. Women had 'guardians' and couldn't do much without them, they only inherited in special circumstances, they were required to marry relatively young and their worth was still put into the gender and amount of kids they could pop out. They weren't really any better, And even the Egyptians still didn't consider women equal to men, and the throne always went to male heirs. And in Athens, Women were considered eternal legal minors, so they were considered children.

Paul was just a man, living in a time where women were not considered equal in any culture, he was no revolutionary, he was just a preacher.

 

[sojourner]

The father of lies is probably even happier about the Supreme Court’s decision than the all the human same-sex marriage supporters put together. That’s because it’s part of an agenda that is critically important to him, according to Sister Lucia dos Santos of Fatima. She was one of the three children in Portugal to whom Saint Mary appeared, interacting with them in six monthly visits from May to October 1917. Do a search on Our Lady of Fatima if you’re interested in more on that.

My only point here is to throw out something Sister Lucia revealed in correspondence with Cardinal Carlo Caffarra, Archbishop of Bologna, not long before her death in 2005:

"The final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, because anyone who works for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be fought and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue."

Pro-gay marriage folks are working for the sanctity of marriage, though. By opening marriage equally to people of both orientations, we are saving marriage from becoming mired in the sin of dehumanization -- that is, treating some human beings as less than human by not allowing them to express their love within the holy bonds of marriage. I think God's laughing all the way to the bank on this one, because this is one more sacrament that has been snatched from the jaws of perversion.

 

[Jainarayan]

He wasn't Greek or Roman or Egyptian, And they were still heavily patriarchal. Women had 'guardians' and couldn't do much without them, they only inherited in special circumstances, they were required to marry relatively young and their worth was still put into the gender and amount of kids they could pop out. They weren't really any better, And even the Egyptians still didn't consider women equal to men, and the throne always went to male heirs. And in Athens, Women were considered eternal legal minors, so they were considered children.

Paul was just a man, living in a time where women were not considered equal in any culture, he was no revolutionary, he was just a preacher.

There is so much fail in this post I scarcely know where to begin, or end.

Paul was a Roman citizen, and as such traveled extensively throughout the Roman Empire, which included Greece, Egypt and Asia Minor. Paul was a chauvinist, a misogynist, and a fraud who usurped primacy from Peter... plain and simple.

Btw, ever hear of Cleopatra?

 

[Thana]

There is so much fail in this post I scarcely know where to begin, or end.

Paul was a Roman citizen, and as such traveled extensively throughout the Roman Empire, which included Greece, Egypt and Asia Minor. Paul was a chauvinist, a misogynist, and a fraud who usurped primacy from Peter... plain and simple.

Btw, ever hear of Cleopatra?

Cleopatra didn't really gain power on her own merit, She got it because she ruled jointly with her brothers and then because she was hooking up with Ceasar and Mark Antony.

And Paul was a Roman citizen, yes, but he was a Jew.

For the love of all that is holy, can we just stop pretending they were all progressive back then? None of those cultures either of us mentioned considered women equal. None. Paul was a product of his times, And any one of you would have thought the same as he and all the rest did.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

Why would you ever ask this? People claim circumstance and coincidence are evidence of "God interceding" ALL THE TIME - I know people, personally, who fall over themselves, claiming such things are evidence of God in droves. Is it so hard for you to believe that ANYONE else believing ANYTHING wouldn't also make the same claim about those circumstances and coincidence and attribute those things to intercession by THEIR OWN god(s)?.

He brought up intercessions by pagan gods, challenging the likelihood that I would accept the possibility, and then he named pagan gods he believes in. I asked if any of them have ever interceded for him, and he said they have.

 

[JoStories]

He wasn't Greek or Roman or Egyptian, And they were still heavily patriarchal. Women had 'guardians' and couldn't do much without them, they only inherited in special circumstances, they were required to marry relatively young and their worth was still put into the gender and amount of kids they could pop out. They weren't really any better, And even the Egyptians still didn't consider women equal to men, and the throne always went to male heirs. And in Athens, Women were considered eternal legal minors, so they were considered children.

Paul was just a man, living in a time where women were not considered equal in any culture, he was no revolutionary, he was just a preacher.

Have you not read what people have been telling you? The cultures of Rome, Greece and Egypt had many women of power and wealth. Some female Pharaohs include Hatsheput, Nefertiti, Cleopatra and more. Roman women include Lucretia, Claudia Quinta, Livia, Helena ( an Empress), and many more. Are these women not women of power and status???

 

[Thana]

Have you not read what people have been telling you? The cultures of Rome, Greece and Egypt had many women of power and wealth. Some female Pharaohs include Hatsheput, Nefertiti, Cleopatra and more. Roman women include Lucretia, Claudia Quinta, Livia, Helena ( an Empress), and many more. Are these women not women of power and status???

Some highborn women had power and wealth? That doesn't mean much. That doesn't mean much at all.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So Paul was supposed to be some sort of revolutionary, Because 2000 years after his time, Our culture would deem his wrong?

Yes. If it didn't, we wouldn't say it was wrong that America had slavery, or that it was hypocritical for slave owners to write "all men are created equal."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Some highborn women had power and wealth? That doesn't mean much. That doesn't mean much at all.

It means that Paul had a serious problem with that.

 

[JoStories]

It means that Paul had a serious problem with that.

Exactly. I'm sitting here shaking my head trying to understand how someone can continually deny facts when they are presented. I am about done trying here Shadow. It seems like tilting at windmills to me.

 

[Thana]

Exactly. I'm sitting here shaking my head trying to understand how someone can continually deny facts when they are presented. I am about done trying here Shadow. It seems like tilting at windmills to me.

Well that's lovely and condescending of you.

You're trying to convince me that a man from 1000+ years ago was a misogynist, And I'm trying to tell you he was a product of his culture and then you're trying to tell me that the culture wasn't 'that bad' but it was. Women were not equal, No matter that a few rich and highborn ones got some power or some respect. They weren't all women, they were just some lucky ones. And maybe they're well known now, But who can say how well known they were then?

If you want to think that Paul was a bad guy, that he could of thought differently, then it's not me denying facts.

 

[Thana]

It means that Paul had a serious problem with that.

So now you're just assuming Paul knew of their existence?

Yes. If it didn't, we wouldn't say it was wrong that America had slavery, or that it was hypocritical for slave owners to write "all men are created equal."

Cool so, if you had of been Paul, born when he was, as a Pharisee, You would have realized the 'evil's' of slavery and inequality and you would have done something about it?

Come on....

 

[Pegg]

Yet, again, looking at this from an historical POV, many women did have power and were able to have a voice. Roman and Greek women had a strong voice. Egyptian women had true power, although most of the leaders were men, let's not forget Osiris, and many other of power, such as Constantine's mother. One need only take an undergraduate course in ancient history to know this.

I think someones been watching too many hollywood movies