Satan: from Judaism to Christianity

[Ivan-Michael]

Eh, that's debatable. Anyways I wasn't disagreeing with you, just adding that fact.

I don't wonder why some claimed that the satan is the same character as the serpent in the 'Garden'.
Some can see it but won't expand on it like I do, perhaps they are correct and I'm the idiot for trying to spell it out.
This I say with humility, but something compels me to spell it out, very difficult to see without sharing, it's funny, Comic, but lonely. Tragedy.
Even when spelling it out, not many will leave the cinema.

 

[Falvlun]

Satan as devil is simply a Christian distortion.

You can probably answer my question. In Judaism, are Satan and the Devil two distinct entities?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Well if you think about it...

Satan is still appointed to test and punish in the NT, the whole concept is getting away from his snare and clutches. It's not God who does the tempting but the agent he has dispatched for the purpose. He wouldn't be "The god of this age" if the Father didn't will it.

I just wonder if there is any verse that NT calls satan "The god of this age" or something like this.
I think this is based on an interpretation, isn't it?

 

[Levite]

You can probably answer my question. In Judaism, are Satan and the Devil two distinct entities?

Judaism does not believe in "the devil." The idea of The Devil is Christian, and is entirely absent from Judaism.

 

[Falvlun]

Judaism does not believe in "the devil." The idea of The Devil is Christian, and is entirely absent from Judaism.

Ah, okay. So who or what is Satan to you?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You can probably answer my question. In Judaism, are Satan and the Devil two distinct entities?

There is no 'devil' in Judaism.

 

[Falvlun]

There is no 'devil' in Judaism.

Thanks, Jay. And my follow-up question to Levite as well. My Christian upbringing led me to believe that Satan and the devil were synonomous, so I'm just curious what the distinction is.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Ah, okay. So who or what is Satan to you?

From Wiki:

Balaam sends back word that he can only do what YHWH commands, and God has, via a nocturnal dream, told him not to go. Moab consequently sends higher-ranking priests and offers Balaam honours; Balaam, in his coveteousness, continues to press God, and God finally gives him over to his greed and permits him to go but with instructions to say only what he commands. Balaam thus, without being asked again, sets out in the morning with the princes of Moab and God becomes angry that he went, and the Angel of the Lord (Numbers 22:22) is sent to prevent him. At first the angel is seen only by the donkey Balaam is riding, which tries to avoid the otherwise invisible angel. After Balaam starts punishing the donkey for refusing to move, it is miraculously given the power to speak to Balaam (Numbers 22:28), and it complains about Balaam's treatment. At this point, Balaam is allowed to see the angel, who informs him that the donkey is the only reason the angel did not kill Balaam. Balaam immediately repents, but is told to go on.

 

[Falvlun]

From Wiki:

Ah, okay. So who or what is Satan to you?

From Wiki:

Balaam sends back word that he can only do what YHWH commands, and God has, via a nocturnal dream, told him not to go. Moab consequently sends higher-ranking priests and offers Balaam honours; Balaam, in his coveteousness, continues to press God, and God finally gives him over to his greed and permits him to go but with instructions to say only what he commands. Balaam thus, without being asked again, sets out in the morning with the princes of Moab and God becomes angry that he went, and the Angel of the Lord (Numbers 22:22) is sent to prevent him. At first the angel is seen only by the donkey Balaam is riding, which tries to avoid the otherwise invisible angel. After Balaam starts punishing the donkey for refusing to move, it is miraculously given the power to speak to Balaam (Numbers 22:28), and it complains about Balaam's treatment. At this point, Balaam is allowed to see the angel, who informs him that the donkey is the only reason the angel did not kill Balaam. Balaam immediately repents, but is told to go on.

Is the Angel of the Lord Satan? (Literally, the angel sent by God to accuse/punish Balaam for disobeying God.)

Or, is Satan Balaam's internal covetousness and temptation that led him to sin?

Or did you just post that to mock me? (It is always hard to tell. )

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is the Angel of the Lord Satan? (Literally, the angel sent by God to accuse/punish Balaam for disobeying God.)

Yes. I believe it is the only reference to HaSatan in the Torah.
Punish?

 

[Me Myself]

Do you have some evidence for this?

The bible, 9 out of 10 translations. (Probably more)

Yes - but the NT devil/Satan is not the same as the OT Satan.

The OT version is a servant of God - just doing his job - testing people - and if found wanting - presenting them and the evidence before YHVH.

The NT version is an evil being trying to make us sin to take us to hell,

This. For those who said the serpent was clearly not God's good servant, they areot taking into account that they are assuming the serpent and satan are the same. Assumption that does not have any support given the OT narrative.

 

[crossfire]

Numbers 22 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Bold red words are Hebrew satan. {If I'm looking at it correctly} .
Numbers 22:22
And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him.
Numbers 22:32
And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine *** these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because [thy] way is perverse before me:

 

[Falvlun]

Yes. I believe it is the only reference to HaSatan in the Torah.

Where is the name HaSatan given to this Angel? Is that by tradition?

Punish?

From this part of the passage:

At this point, Balaam is allowed to see the angel, who informs him that the donkey is the only reason the angel did not kill Balaam.

He wasn't just there to accuse Balaam, but to mete out some justice too.

 

[Desert Snake]

The bible, 9 out of 10 translations. (Probably more)

Mind providing some verses?

 

[Me Myself]

Mind providing some verses?

Me? You are the one proposing the snake is Satan. Is that in the OT? This is one of the things evidenced by it's absence: there is no lace in the OT where Satan is shown to be despised by God or where he is shown despising God. He has a role of being the opposition, but there seems to be no ill intent towards god.

Can you find any place in the OT where God shows ill intent towards Satan or the other way around?

 

[Desert Snake]

Me? You are the one proposing the snake is Satan. Is that in the OT?

Actually I'm not, that is the opinion of some Rabbis.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Where is the name HaSatan given to this Angel? Is that by tradition?
He wasn't just there to accuse Balaam, but to mete out some justice too.

See the concordance for Numbers 22:22.

He wasn't just there to accuse Balaam, but to mete out some justice too.

Not in my opinion.

 

[Desert Snake]

I was taught that part of downplaying Satan's role in the OT is the fact that the Israelites were notorious for falling into idolatry and didn't need anymore gods to be tempted by. It makes sense.

Seems like the same character to me, frankly/

 

[Me Myself]

Actually I'm not, that is the opinion of some Rabbis.

Understood, please forgive the assumption

 

[Desert Snake]

i think that there are many references to Satan the devil in the OT which do not portray him as doing Gods will. They portray him as an angel who is against God and against righteousness. In the garden of Eden, the 'serpent' who speaks to Eve cannot be a literal snake because they dont talk, so who was she really speaking to? And if this is satan (as the Christians believed), why would God then condemn him for doing what he was told? It wouldnt make any sense.
Genesis 3:14 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one ...
God does not curse those who obey him does he?

Then in the account of Job, we see that satan is mentioned for the first time as 'roving about in the earth'... Why did God ask him this if God sent him to rove about in earth? Again it makes no sense.
The conversation between God and Satan shows that Satan is speaking with contempt to God...he has forgotten his place and he is not showing proper respect for his creator
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11 But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah.

This is not a humble willing angel who is being directed by God...this angel is speaking out of turn and challenging God Almighty to inflict damages on an innocent man. anyone who thinks Satan is doing Gods will is completely mislead.

Yes, the familiar "Satan" of the NT is inferred in the OT, good post.