Satan: from Judaism to Christianity

[Wolfborne]

I am curious how the writers go from the OT (Tanakh) account of Satan (Ha-SaTan) as nothing more than "the accuser/adversary," and following God's orders, to the NT account of Satan being public enemy #1.

I grew up as a Southern Baptist, but now identify myself as a non-denominational Christian, although I tend to agree with Judaism on its position toward Satan, based off the OT. Throughout the NT, I am finding multiple verses where Satan is directly or indirectly referenced, but then I wonder just how many of those verses are actually referring to Satan as Christians view him.

I am all too familiar with the NT verses and theories behind the Christian view, but what made the writers pick Satan out of the crowd, and place the blame of evil on him? Where is it written that Satan becomes the devil?

It is my understanding that literary works such as Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost are to blame for a lot of the mythology of Satan, that Christians accept as fact.

Also, please don't use Isaiah 14:12 as part of your argument. That entire chapter is clearing talking about a Babylonian King (most likely Nebuchadnezzar II).

If you choose to respond, please cite your sources. Thanks!

 

[Desert Snake]

So you're asking a question but already setting up the answers with your own interpretation/biases.


o.k.

 

[Wolfborne]

I deal with facts, not opinions or unprovable theories.

There's a lot of Christian belief about Satan, but very few can actually tell me where those beliefs come from. As I search the NT, I find references in the Book of Revelation, but those don't always say "Satan." The dragon, the serpent, the devil...one can just paint everything to mean Satan, but then you move away from what's written to an opinionated view.

My question remains: how did the NT writers come to the conclusion that Satan = the Devil, and is responsible for sin/evil?

 

[Astounded]

I always wonder.....say the Our Father. The prayer that Jesus taught about our Father...why do we ask our Father not to lead us into temptation???? Isn't that Satan's job not God's??

And if that line is true, how can you resist a temptation from an all powerful deity/God??

 

[Shermana]

Well if you think about it...

Satan is still appointed to test and punish in the NT, the whole concept is getting away from his snare and clutches. It's not God who does the tempting but the agent he has dispatched for the purpose. He wouldn't be "The god of this age" if the Father didn't will it.

 

[Pegg]

I am curious how the writers go from the OT (Tanakh) account of Satan (Ha-SaTan) as nothing more than "the accuser/adversary," and following God's orders, to the NT account of Satan being public enemy #1.

I grew up as a Southern Baptist, but now identify myself as a non-denominational Christian, although I tend to agree with Judaism on its position toward Satan, based off the OT. Throughout the NT, I am finding multiple verses where Satan is directly or indirectly referenced, but then I wonder just how many of those verses are actually referring to Satan as Christians view him.

I am all too familiar with the NT verses and theories behind the Christian view, but what made the writers pick Satan out of the crowd, and place the blame of evil on him? Where is it written that Satan becomes the devil?

It is my understanding that literary works such as Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost are to blame for a lot of the mythology of Satan, that Christians accept as fact.

Also, please don't use Isaiah 14:12 as part of your argument. That entire chapter is clearing talking about a Babylonian King (most likely Nebuchadnezzar II).

If you choose to respond, please cite your sources. Thanks!

i think that there are many references to Satan the devil in the OT which do not portray him as doing Gods will. They portray him as an angel who is against God and against righteousness. In the garden of Eden, the 'serpent' who speaks to Eve cannot be a literal snake because they dont talk, so who was she really speaking to? And if this is satan (as the Christians believed), why would God then condemn him for doing what he was told? It wouldnt make any sense.
Genesis 3:14 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one ...
God does not curse those who obey him does he?

Then in the account of Job, we see that satan is mentioned for the first time as 'roving about in the earth'... Why did God ask him this if God sent him to rove about in earth? Again it makes no sense.
The conversation between God and Satan shows that Satan is speaking with contempt to God...he has forgotten his place and he is not showing proper respect for his creator
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11 But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah.

This is not a humble willing angel who is being directed by God...this angel is speaking out of turn and challenging God Almighty to inflict damages on an innocent man. anyone who thinks Satan is doing Gods will is completely mislead.

 

[Pegg]

I deal with facts, not opinions or unprovable theories.

There's a lot of Christian belief about Satan, but very few can actually tell me where those beliefs come from. As I search the NT, I find references in the Book of Revelation, but those don't always say "Satan." The dragon, the serpent, the devil...one can just paint everything to mean Satan, but then you move away from what's written to an opinionated view.

My question remains: how did the NT writers come to the conclusion that Satan = the Devil, and is responsible for sin/evil?

it was Jesus who taught them the identity of Satan.

Jesus had informed them about Satans goal to mislead when he relayed the information about how Satan had come to him to try and mislead him:
“Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: ‘All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.’”—Matthew 4:8, 9.
From this temptation, they saw Satan as the one with power over all earthly kingdoms...if satan did not have control of such kingdoms, then he could not have offered them to Christ as a reward for an act of worship. John wrote:
“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” 1 John 5:19
This information helps us to understand why Jesus said: “My kingdom is no part of this world.” It certainly explains why nations hate and try to destroy one another when it is the desire of all normal persons to live at peace.

The Christian scriptures give a clear picture of who Satan is and how he works. If Satan could mislead even the jews to think that he is a good guy doing Gods handiwork, then its no wonder he could so easily mislead 'the entire inhabited earth'.... Paul said of him 2Cor11:14 "...Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light."

 

[Wolfborne]

Pegg, no offense, but if you are a JW, and you are quoting from or using the NWT as your source, you and I will never see eye to eye. I am tolerant of all religions and respect other people's views, but the NWT is not something I ever care to read or learn from. Thanks anyway, for replying.

 

[Levite]

Some of the elements of the Christian Satan and his fallen angel buddies come from apocryphal literature of the Second Temple period, which featured the concept of fallen angels-- an idea that never took hold in Rabbinic Judaism-- which in turn came to the Jewish world from Babylonian mysticism.

But my guess is that the Christian Satan comes in large part also from the influence of gnostic dualism, which was very much in vogue in the first century CE in that area. Jews clearly flirted with gnostic dualism quite a bit, since there are several polemical stories in the Talmud about it; while it never became mainstreamed into Rabbinic Jewish thought, it seems clear that it enjoyed much more success filtering into Christian thought.

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, no offense, but if you are a JW, and you are quoting from or using the NWT as your source, you and I will never see eye to eye. I am tolerant of all religions and respect other people's views, but the NWT is not something I ever care to read or learn from. Thanks anyway, for replying.

no offense taken...

you are quite welcome to replace the quoted scritpures with a translation of your preference...i dont think it really matters which translation we use so long as we use one of them.

 

[Desert Snake]

no offense taken...

you are quite welcome to replace the quoted scritpures with a translation of your preference...i dont think it really matters which translation we use so long as we use one of them.

Yes, I don't think it matters in this instance, you didn't post anything I haven't read in some other context already, Satan was most definitely in the OT.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I was taught that part of downplaying Satan's role in the OT is the fact that the Israelites were notorious for falling into idolatry and didn't need anymore gods to be tempted by. It makes sense.

 

[ChristineES]

I have thought of Satan over the years in many different ways. I see Satan as less an entity and more a part of our weaknesses. Job is a metaphorical story, scholars say. Satan is described as tempting Jesus when Jesus fasted for 40 days and 40 nighrs right before He started his ministry.

Here is a verse that mentions Satan:
Matthew 16:22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you."
Matthew 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
This also shows Satan as rather a tempter, as well.

And this:

Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.

If you take the story in context, this also shows Satan as a tempter.

I am not certain, but it would appear that Satan be a symbol of our own temptations. This is just an idea, something I have been thinking about- so don't take it too seriously.

 

[Ingledsva]

I am curious how the writers go from the OT (Tanakh) account of Satan (Ha-SaTan) as nothing more than "the accuser/adversary," and following God's orders, to the NT account of Satan being public enemy #1.

I grew up as a Southern Baptist, but now identify myself as a non-denominational Christian, although I tend to agree with Judaism on its position toward Satan, based off the OT. Throughout the NT, I am finding multiple verses where Satan is directly or indirectly referenced, but then I wonder just how many of those verses are actually referring to Satan as Christians view him.

I am all too familiar with the NT verses and theories behind the Christian view, but what made the writers pick Satan out of the crowd, and place the blame of evil on him? Where is it written that Satan becomes the devil?

It is my understanding that literary works such as Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost are to blame for a lot of the mythology of Satan, that Christians accept as fact.

Also, please don't use Isaiah 14:12 as part of your argument. That entire chapter is clearing talking about a Babylonian King (most likely Nebuchadnezzar II).

If you choose to respond, please cite your sources. Thanks!

Yep, we have brought this up several times. The two are not the same.

 

[Ingledsva]

Yes, I don't think it matters in this instance, you didn't post anything I haven't read in some other context already, Satan was most definitely in the OT.

Yes - but the NT devil/Satan is not the same as the OT Satan.

The OT version is a servant of God - just doing his job - testing people - and if found wanting - presenting them and the evidence before YHVH.

The NT version is an evil being trying to make us sin to take us to hell,

 

[Ingledsva]

it was Jesus who taught them the identity of Satan.

Jesus had informed them about Satans goal to mislead when he relayed the information about how Satan had come to him to try and mislead him:
“Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, and he said to him: ‘All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.’”—Matthew 4:8, 9.
From this temptation, they saw Satan as the one with power over all earthly kingdoms...if satan did not have control of such kingdoms, then he could not have offered them to Christ as a reward for an act of worship. John wrote:
“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” 1 John 5:19
This information helps us to understand why Jesus said: “My kingdom is no part of this world.” It certainly explains why nations hate and try to destroy one another when it is the desire of all normal persons to live at peace.

The Christian scriptures give a clear picture of who Satan is and how he works. If Satan could mislead even the jews to think that he is a good guy doing Gods handiwork, then its no wonder he could so easily mislead 'the entire inhabited earth'.... Paul said of him 2Cor11:14 "...Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light."

Actually Satan was just doing his job in this first appearance in the NT. He was testing Jesus to see if he was ready for his task.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes - but the NT devil/Satan is not the same as the OT Satan.

The OT version is a servant of God - just doing his job - testing people - and if found wanting - presenting them and the evidence before YHVH.

The NT version is an evil being trying to make us sin to take us to hell,

Do you have some evidence for this?

 

[Ingledsva]

i think that there are many references to Satan the devil in the OT which do not portray him as doing Gods will. They portray him as an angel who is against God and against righteousness.

That actually is not correct.

In the garden of Eden, the 'serpent' who speaks to Eve cannot be a literal snake because they dont talk, so who was she really speaking to? And if this is satan (as the Christians believed), why would God then condemn him for doing what he was told? It wouldnt make any sense.
Genesis 3:14 And Jehovah God proceeded to say to the serpent: “Because you have done this thing, you are the cursed one ...
God does not curse those who obey him does he?

It does not say Satan is the serpent here. Throughout the OT sorcerers are called Serpents - people with power.

Then in the account of Job, we see that satan is mentioned for the first time as 'roving about in the earth'... Why did God ask him this if God sent him to rove about in earth? Again it makes no sense.
The conversation between God and Satan shows that Satan is speaking with contempt to God...he has forgotten his place and he is not showing proper respect for his creator
Job 1:6 Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
7 Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8 And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9 At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10 Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11 But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah.

This is not a humble willing angel who is being directed by God...this angel is speaking out of turn and challenging God Almighty to inflict damages on an innocent man. anyone who thinks Satan is doing Gods will is completely mislead.

Carefully read this story. Satan is "roving about" because that is his job - to find and test!

NOTE that YHVH, apparently in the mood for a you know what match - points out Job to Satan the tester - and TELLS HIM TO TEST HIM! Tells him to do everything but kill him! Some God!

 

[Ingledsva]

Do you have some evidence for this?

Satan is mentioned 15 times in the Old Testament. The majority are in Job and Zec., In case you want to look them up. Job is being tested, and in ZEC. Satan has tested the High Priest, found him evil, and brought him before the Lord.

And in none of these is he trying to be greater then God. That was not his purpose in Torah.

Christianity changed him, just as they did Jesus, and the Hebrews found the changes to be Evil!!!!

Satan starts to change with the New Testament. Satan is mentioned 34 times in the NT.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: -

Think about what the Lord is saying in this passage – The Lord is warning Simon that “The Accuser” wants to get hold of him and “sift him as wheat” in other words test him! See how much chaff compared to the wheat.

1 Cor. 7:5 - 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Again – least (4561) The Accuser (3985) SCRUTINIZE, EXAMINE, ASSAY, PROVE, DISIPLINE you for your incontinency. Related to 3986 – To put to proof by experiment or experience!

Luke 13:16 - And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Note that this is (4561) Satanas – The Accuser! Not the Evil one, or anything like that. The Accuser (tester) found her wanting and bound her.

Luke 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

The above is always mistaken as the Evil one being thrown from heaven, but it does not say that.
The word is Satanas again – The accuser!

MY translation - Luke 10:18 - And he said unto them, I beheld The Accuser (4561) Shining brightly (796) alighting (4098 from 4072) from the sky (heaven – 3772 – and the concordance says this word implies happiness!).

Read the whole passage. They are both Happy and frightened because “The ACCUSING” hand of God is coming to test and accuse the wicked.

The “Accuser/tester” is still there, as we can see from the above passages, but Christianity is already starting to change him, and to confuse him with the gods of the surrounding nations whom thy think of as evil.

And of course by Revelation he is an evil old Serpent.

*

 

[Ivan-Michael]

I always wonder.....say the Our Father. The prayer that Jesus taught about our Father...why do we ask our Father not to lead us into temptation???? Isn't that Satan's job not God's??

And if that line is true, how can you resist a temptation from an all powerful deity/God??

Who or what is 'Our Father'? Your Father?
God?
Who or What is God?
Is God also Lord God? Or are they different?
What is the original Hebrew word for God?
What does it mean?
And once you find what God refers to you can find the Father and the Serpent (Satan).
You can then ask Him (the Father) not to lead you into temptation.
And He (the Father) will help.