Satanists Claim Abortion a Religious Ritual

[SkepticThinker]

How is she the victim in the other 99 percent? The baby is then the victim.

In the case of rape, the person being raped is the victim.

Why do you focus on the tiny percentage instead of the vast majority of abortions that are simply for convenience?

Those are just the reported ones.

Using "convenience" as a reason is something of a misnomer and is commonly used to demonize women who get abortions. The reality is a little more complicated than that. "Convenience" could be that she already has three kids, her husband walked out and she can't afford (financially or mentally) to have another child. Or how about a woman in an abusive relationship who doesn't want to bring a child into that kind of environment? How about a single mother who can't afford healthcare, and has no idea how she could ever pay the monstrously high hospital bills involved in being pregnant and having a baby? Not to mention all the potential health complications that can arise from pregnancy. This is why it seems obvious to me that people need to be able to make these sorts of decisions on their own, with their doctors. I don't need some random dude on the internet telling me my reason to control my own body isn't good enough for him. I don't come sit in your doctor's office with you, trying to dictate what sorts of procedures you should have or not have. Please extend the same courtesy to people with vaginas. We can handle it just fine without your uninformed input. Thanks.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It refutes the argument that a woman can give up her child for adoption. It shows that the foster care system is broken.

Thank you!

 

[Sheldon]

Just this Sunday I had to wish my dear mother “Happy Birthing Vehicle of Unspecified Gender Who Decided Not To Terminate Their Pregnancy Day”, just so I wouldn’t come off as some evil hateful bigot.

I hope you were more convincing to your mother?

 

[Sheldon]

You should see the process of abortion and how it is done, your stomach would turn upside down.

Why would you watch a process that turns your stomach upside down? That's like watching air crash investigation while waiting to board a long haul flight.

 

[Sheldon]

My stomach turns watching cancer surgery. Therefore, cancer surgery is morally wrong.

Exactly, watching someone have a cyst removed is likely something I'd find unpleasant, that doesn't make it wrong.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You should see the process of abortion and how it is done, your stomach would turn upside down.

My stomach turns upside down when I watch heart surgeries on TV as well. Or knee surgeries. Or laser eye surgery.

Most abortions are done with pills these days, anyway.
Most US abortions performed by pill now

 

[SkepticThinker]

Abortion isn’t an issue exclusive to women, you know. It is now understood that men can give birth and have abortions as well, so stop trying to make this all about women, bringing up “women’s rights”… especially when up until now most of these pro-abortion activists couldn’t even tell me what a woman is.

I mean, these days you see a pregnant birthing person and Lord only knows if it’s a man or a woman. Just this Sunday I had to wish my dear mother “Happy Birthing Vehicle of Unspecified Gender Who Decided Not To Terminate Their Pregnancy Day”, just so I wouldn’t come off as some evil hateful bigot.

I don't give a rat's behind what gender the person is. If they're pregnant - their body, their choice.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
Your argument is flawed because by any objective standard an atheist is a person. An insentient egg, embryo, blastocyst, or developing foetus is not. The person is the pregnant woman whose body it is a part of.

Sorry, I don't see any objective standard, only your subjective standard.

I said the objective standard existed, I didn't say blinkered closed minded people could see it.

 

[Sheldon]

Wildswanderer said: ↑
You know that abortion empowers rapists and molesters, right? Get her pregnant, send her to the clinic or get a pill, and you are free to rape again. Why are you arguing for helping rapists cover their tracks?

What???

Yeah, I couldn't finish that sentence either, not without getting my post pulled.

 

[paradox]

Why would you watch a process that turns your stomach upside down? That's like watching air crash investigation while waiting to board a long haul flight.

For the same reason why obese people are forced to eat spit out food after being chewed, which is btw. a method to make them avoid eating certain food.

Watching a murder scene on TV is not disgusting, we watch it all the time in movies, guess why don't we watch baby killing scene, that is, abortion?
- Viewers would not be able to endure believe me.

 

[Heyo]

No - we are not talking about "children" - but newborns.

I'm pleasantly surprised that you are able to differentiate age brackets. Most anti-choicers can't differentiate between an embryo, a fetus and a baby.

A woman who decides to give up her child for adoption - rather than abort him/her - isn't giving up a 7-year-old - but a newborn - and the waiting list for newborns is years long.

When she makes the decision immediately after birth. Sometimes a mother realizes that she shouldn't have had that baby much too late, that is, too late for being adopted. And when she has been forced or coerced, those who did that should step up and take responsibility, e.g. by adopting older children.

It is unfortunate when children don't get adopted - but is that a sign that any "system" is broken - or that people keep making bad choices that hurt their children?

Both. And the bad choice was to have that baby in the first place. (That is, if there was a choice.)

 

[Sheldon]

Watching a murder scene on TV is not disgusting, we watch it all the time in movies,

Well it certainly can be disgusting, and distressing, though I accept people can become desensitised to violence. Which incidentally also suggest, that what we find disgusting is not always a sound benchmark for what is moral.

guess why don't we watch baby killing scene, that is, abortion?

No it isn't, an abortion most often involves a zygote or balstocyst, like this:

I don't know what you think a baby is, but that isn't it.

- Viewers would not be able to endure believe me.

Well I would want to watch a knee replacement or someone having a cyst removed, but that doesn't make them immoral.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I don't need some random dude on the internet telling me my reason to control my own body isn't good enough for him. I don't come sit in your doctor's office with you, trying to dictate what sorts of procedures you should have or not have. Please extend the same courtesy to people with vaginas. We can handle it just fine without your uninformed input. Thanks.

I don't need you to tell me it's ok to shoot my annoying neighbor either. See how that works? This isn't about your body.

 

[paradox]

A pill designed to kill a baby - I must admit the US is truly advanced nation and ahead of others.

Well I would want to watch a knee replacement or someone having a cyst removed, but that doesn't make them immoral.

I would refrain from putting abortion and regular surgeries into the same basket, one is about taking life, another is about saving life.
Abortions required to save women's life are different and a perfectly valid thing though.

No it isn't, an abortion most often involves a zygote or balstocyst, like this:

Right "most often" but this doesn't mean much, a child of 8 is of equal worth as person 80 yo. and so is embryo, life is life, just at different stage.

 

[ppp]

I don't need you to tell me it's ok to shoot my annoying neighbor either. See how that works? This isn't about your body.

Why do you think that managing the state of one's own body is analogous to shooting one neighbor?

 

[Sheldon]

I don't need you to tell me it's ok to shoot my annoying neighbor either.

Really, perhaps you actually do if you think it's ok?

See how that works?

Not really?

This isn't about your body.

Of course it is, that is absolutely what anti-choicers are trying to take away, a woman's right to decide what happens to her own body. In favour of the "interests" of an insentient clump of cells.

 

[Sheldon]

A pill designed to kill a baby - I must admit the US is truly advanced nation and ahead of others.

A zygote or blastocyst is not a baby.

See the difference?

I would refrain from putting abortion and regular surgeries into the same basket, one is about taking life, another is about saving life.

It was your analogy that something was immoral because we might not be able to stomach it, not mine, you now appear to be shifting the goal posts. As I said, just because I might find something disgusting is not necessarily a sound metric for what is moral.

Abortions required to save women's life are different and a perfectly valid thing though.

Interesting you should say that, since you are admitting it makes moral sense to place the woman's rights before that of a foetus, embryo or blastocyst, that is part of her body.

Right "most often" but this doesn't mean much, a child of 8 is of equal worth as person 80 yo.

That's a pretty obvious false equivalence fallacy, since abortions don't involve 8 year old children.

and so is embryo, life is life, just at different stage.

Yet you just admitted that it was ok to terminate a pregnancy to save a woman's life, so clearly they are not equal.

 

[paradox]

A zygote or blastocyst is not a baby

right, it's a fetus which is a live being - not dead.

Interesting you should say that, since you are admitting it makes moral sense to place the woman's rights before that of a foetus, embryo or blastocyst, that is part of her body.

This is the only exception and is valid because one of them *must* die, so the choice is normal.
When none *must* die then there is no reason for choice.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why do you think that managing the state of one's own body is analogous to shooting one neighbor?

Because it's not her body that is being terminated. And mass shootings? Let's be honest, those people were not needed for society to function, right? Why is it wrong to kill post birth people? Why stop at an arbitrary place like being delivered through the birth canal?

 

[Wildswanderer]

See the difference?

The difference is a few months.