Satya Sai Baba - man or God?

[gnomon]

I'm just glad the sorry son of a ***** is dead and no longer conning people.

 

[zenzero]

Friend gnomon,

The comment would have been more relevant if you had been conned yourself as without any personal experience words are ineffective.

Love & rgds

 

[gnomon]

Don't need to be conned by a conman to recognize the man for what he is.

Or was in this case.

Cuz he's dead now.

To quote Martha Stewart, "That's a good thing.".

 

[zenzero]

Friend gnomon,

The word *con* means:

con 4 (kn) Slang
tr.v. conned, con·ning, cons
To swindle (a victim) by first winning his or her confidence; dupe.
n.
A swindle.
adj.
Of, relating to, or involving a swindle or fraud: a con artist; a con job.
[Short for confidence.]

Yes could you state how your friends or anyone was conned by this man???

Love & rgds

 

[gnomon]

Thousands of Indians. Conned by cheap parlor tricks. Thanks to the work of Basava Premanand and others who worked to expose what some of these gurus do who work more for material gain than any so called spiritual work. Palming gold watches and making them appear for the rich and doing the same with ashes for the poor.

Using magic tricks to convince people you are a godman is a confidence trick.

 

[zenzero]

Friend gnomon,

Palming gold watches and making them appear for the rich and doing the same with ashes for the poor.

in return how much did he con the person???
Kindly go behind the stories.
In India the debate was as to why magic should be used in the path of teaching dharma and never about conning by this man as he never cheated anyone or asked for anything by demonstrating magic; rather his leadership in creation of a town and society from scratch with FREE global standard education facilities starting from schools to a university and medical hospital are something which even your Basava Premanand or any such critic can never match in their lifetime.
Kindly understand that rationalist are persons who are only able to see/perceive through their mind's eyes whereas mystics transcends that very mind to be one with truth.
So all those using only their mind without transcending it or knowing what transcendence would be able to view a very limited part of existence.

Love & rgds

 

[no-body]

Friend gnomon,



in return how much did he con the person???
Kindly go behind the stories.
In India the debate was as to why magic should be used in the path of teaching dharma and never about conning by this man as he never cheated anyone or asked for anything by demonstrating magic; rather his leadership in creation of a town and society from scratch with FREE global standard education facilities starting from schools to a university and medical hospital are something which even your Basava Premanand or any such critic can never match in their lifetime.
Kindly understand that rationalist are persons who are only able to see/perceive through their mind's eyes whereas mystics transcends that very mind to be one with truth.
So all those using only their mind without transcending it or knowing what transcendence would be able to view a very limited part of existence.

Love & rgds

Asking for nothing is a common ploy employed by con artist through out history; the attention and perks that come along with it are more than enough compensation for some. There is no such thing as "magic" why would a holy man need to pepper their teachings with it to rope adherents? The teachings should be enough. Spreading gullibility is not a noble pursuit.

I mean it's great that this guy has used his influence to do a lot of good in the world, but allegations of abuse put to the side I have doubts of his status as a true holy man.

 

[Riverwolf]

There is no such thing as "magic" why would a holy man need to pepper their teachings with it to rope adherents? The teachings should be enough.

Amma does much of the same sort of thing as far as humanitarian works goes, and she doesn't do any sleight of hand. She just gives out free hugs. For many of her followers, that's enough to declare her an Avatar.

 

[no-body]

Amma does much of the same sort of thing as far as humanitarian works goes, and she doesn't do any sleight of hand. She just gives out free hugs. For many of her followers, that's enough to declare her an Avatar.

Yes, the magic of reality should be enough.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Have you read the Guru Gita?

Guru is Shiva, Guru is God. Guru is the relative of all embodied beings.
Guru is the Self. Guru is Jiva. There is nothing other than the Guru.
(87)

This is not referring to an embodied guru who may or may not be in a constant state of Sahaj Samadhi. This is referring to the practice of understanding the All as guru.

 

[zenzero]

Friend nobody,

I mean it's great that this guy has used his influence to do a lot of good in the world, but allegations of abuse put to the side I have doubts of his status as a true holy man.

Human being by nature is not perfect and holy/unholy are just perceptions of the imperfect mind.
His efforts /contribution to society for his fellowmen is enough to place him on a pedestal higher than most specially where people sell there products at a great profit on one hand and make a show of charity with small changes from profits earned.
This man never retained even a single coin for his known relatives even as all that people gave him he gave back to them in various useful ways.

Love & rgds

 

[Riverwolf]

This is not referring to an embodied guru who may or may not be in a constant state of Sahaj Samadhi. This is referring to the practice of understanding the All as guru.

Possibly, but the book does seem to primarily be talking about an embodied Guru, possibly the authors' personal one, describing how the student is to view his Guru.

 

[Marble]

Friend nobody,



Human being by nature is not perfect and holy/unholy are just perceptions of the imperfect mind.
His efforts /contribution to society for his fellowmen is enough to place him on a pedestal higher than most specially where people sell there products at a great profit on one hand and make a show of charity with small changes from profits earned.
This man never retained even a single coin for his known relatives even as all that people gave him he gave back to them in various useful ways.

Love & rgds

What about the allegations of sexual abuse?

 

[Riverwolf]

What about the allegations of sexual abuse?

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Vinayaka]

So now there is some 9 billion dollars to deal with. Last I heard one guy is being appointed. Too bad the swami couldn't have made an absolute declaration of who would be in charge. Write it all down in a clear concise living will, file it with authorities, and make everything absolutely clear. Noe that woulkd have been intelligent. Npw there will be fighting for 50 years instead.

Then in 8 years time there will be about 100 000 children born all having parents saying that their kid is the next Baba. Good luck with that.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Marble,

What about the allegations of sexual abuse?

Are you a victim??
The three wise monkeys never see, hear or speak ILL.
So by speaking ILL is unwise specially when facts are unknown or not having first hand experience.
Am neither a follower nor a critic of this man but as fellow human see, hear and speak of the good things that have experienced first hand.
Love & rgds

 

[K.Venugopal]

May I say that even those who are not followers of Satya Sai Baba but have some knowledge of the Hindu science of Kundalini Shakti and other yogic powers, would not rule out the possibility of an individual attaining miraculous powers. It is in this context that a large number of people in India would give people like Satya Sai Baba the benefit of doubt on any divine claims. The existence of immense literature, especially the renowned Tantric and other texts of the Shakti path, give a background to the acceptance of such personages in India and it is not purely a case of Hindus being a credulous lot.

 

[Wombat]

Friend Marble,


Are you a victim??
The three wise monkeys never see, hear or speak ILL.
So by speaking ILL is unwise specially when facts are unknown or not having first hand experience.
Am neither a follower nor a critic of this man but as fellow human see, hear and speak of the good things that have experienced first hand.
Love & rgds

No...I'm sorry zenzero...but that is a terrible question- "Are you a victim"...it implies that unless you are a victim you aught not ask the question.

I work with the victims of sexual and physical abuse....it is our/collective Duty of Care to ask and be vigilant and guard and protect.

"So by speaking ILL is unwise specially when facts are unknown or not having first hand experience"

No..."first hand experience" is >not< a requirement...the requirement is that when the allegation is made that we, as a responsible adult community, have the means to determine and know the facts. This becomes problematic in a community/nation in which the suspicions are cast on such a high prophile figure with friends/ supporters in high/Govt places.

And the suspicions/allegations against Sai Baba were numerous- serious- and never properly investigated.

Summary of worldwide testimony on Sai Baba sexual abuse

Sai Baba sexual abuse confirmed, supported and rationalised

 

[Riverwolf]

No...I'm sorry zenzero...but that is a terrible question- "Are you a victim"...it implies that unless you are a victim you aught not ask the question.

I work with the victims of sexual and physical abuse....it is our/collective Duty of Care to ask and be vigilant and guard and protect.

"So by speaking ILL is unwise specially when facts are unknown or not having first hand experience"

No..."first hand experience" is >not< a requirement...the requirement is that when the allegation is made that we, as a responsible adult community, have the means to determine and know the facts. This becomes problematic in a community/nation in which the suspicions are cast on such a high prophile figure with friends/ supporters in high/Govt places.

Even with suspicions, the default standpoint must remain innocent until proven guilty.

And the suspicions/allegations against Sai Baba were numerous- serious- and never properly investigated.

Summary of worldwide testimony on Sai Baba sexual abuse

Sai Baba sexual abuse confirmed, supported and rationalised

Is proper investigation still possible? That last article is filled with unnecessary emotional flair, which, frankly, doesn't lend well to its credence. If the allegations are true, there's no need to use the words "sick", "deluded", etc.

 

[Wombat]

Even with suspicions, the default standpoint must remain innocent until proven guilty..[/quote]

I agree. Wholeheartedly. But a core part of of that 'Due Process' is that all are equal before the law..........and if you have connections in Govt at Federal level and widespread community support all believing you are God made manifest...then even getting charges laid is problematic.



"Is proper investigation still possible? "

Not now...the chance has passed.
So we examine/discuss the issue in the hope that if such circumstances ever come up again we are, as a global community, prepared.

That last article is filled with unnecessary emotional flair, which, frankly, doesn't lend well to its credence. If the allegations are true, there's no need to use the words "sick", "deluded", etc.

Oh Pleaaaaase! How can you cut past/ignore the apologetics of Sai Baba devote Ram Das and go exclusively to the emotive response?

Ram Das claims-
"First of all, I believe that Sathya Sai Baba is an Avatar, a full incarnation of God - “the most powerful incarnation of God ever to come to the Earth” (as Anandamoyi Ma described Sai Baba). AND, from what I’ve read and heard, I’m inclined to think some of the allegations about Baba are probably true: it appears likely to me that He has occasionally had sexually intimate interactions with devotees. God has given me the grace to be able to see that these two ideas are not necessarily in contradiction, and I invite the world to explore that possibility with me here. As I lay in my room immersed in confusion, I suddenly heard Baba’s voice again:
“Know that whatever I do with my devotees is always the most efficient medicine for those souls, and a gift of immeasurable grace. My actions are always a perfect expression of Divine Love, for That is what I am.”

Translated- "I believe some of the allegations about Baba are probably true: it appears likely to me that He has occasionally had sexually intimate interactions with devotees...but that's ok because he is "an Avatar, a full incarnation of God"!!!???

No....I'm with the Web page author....that's "sick", "deluded".