Saudi cleric says earth doesn't rotate

[FearGod]

banaynaaha (بَنَيْنَٰهَا) is past tense. So all it says is Allah made heaven wide, not that he continues to do so. So the verb action is complete not current. Verbs are past tense as well, maybe you should spend more time on grimmer if you think a verb is only present tense or regular.


{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لقادرون، من الوسع وهو الطاقة. والموسع: القوى على الإنفاق. وعن الحسن: لموسعون الرزق بالمطر. وقيل: جعلنا بينها وبين الأرض سعة
(Innaa la-moosi'oon) Indeed we are able, from capacity/power (Wus' وسع), which is power/capacity and The Moosi' is the one who possesses great means/ability to give/provide. Al-Hasan narrated: Indeed he gives/provides (La-Moosi'oon) sustenance through the rain (he sends down). It is also said that we made spaciousness سعة between it (heavens) and the earth.

tafseer of al-Zamakhshari.

Notice the view is not that it is currently happening but Allah is able to.

Standard Arabic is not classical Arabic, your mistaken to think that this means you are qualified in classical Arabic.

The verse is very clear that it says the expanding of the sky,space or heaven and not about the ability for giving,providing or sending rain ..etc, it's up to you if you want believe the idiots who translated the verse in such a stupid way.

وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

وَالسَّمَاءَ = sky,space,heaven
بَنَيْنَاهَا = had constructed it
وَإِنَّا = and we're
لَمُوسِعُونَ = expanding it more, stretching it more ..etc

Is that hard to understand or to translate it?

 

[Shad]

Yes it's about the gravitational forces and how things were kept fixed in their places.

It says no such thing. A pillar holds up an object but the atmosphere is present down to gravity of the Earth, it pulls into towards the core, that is not supporting it as if it could fall to the ground. Also the magnetic field helps retain the atmosphere as it protects it from solar winds. This field is not part of the sky nor can be a pillar. Post hoc rationalization

بِنَاءً

does never mean canopy, but a construction.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

And do you think that a ceiling can have doors or that a canopy can have doors in its ceiling, the sky will be our gateways to the next life,the afterlife which you don't believe in and won't believe in.

Which firmly places the sky on Earth as a barrier to anything external to the universe. Never mind other planets or objects in orbit. Why is this gateway restricted to Earth when any place in the universe. This reflect the classic idea that the Earth is the center of everything.

It's about the end of times when everything will collapse and all planets will lose their fixed positions.


At the end of times, the construction of heavens will collapse.

Falling down. This is a location reference from Earth with object falling towards to reference point. Planets do not have fixed positions, which is again a classical view not a modern view. Objects can and have knocks planets out of their orbit. Take Pluto and Neptune for example. If gravity ceased all objects would bleed away their momentum eventually becoming fixed objects. The Quran suggests the exact opposite effect

 

[Shad]

The verse is very clear that it says the expanding of the sky,space or heaven and not about the ability for giving,providing or sending rain ..etc, it's up to you if you want believe the idiots who translated the verse in such a stupid way.

وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

وَالسَّمَاءَ = sky,space,heaven
بَنَيْنَاهَا = had constructed it
وَإِنَّا = and we're
لَمُوسِعُونَ = expanding it more, stretching it more ..etc

Is that hard to understand or to translate it?

Idiot like professionals which know classical Arabic, that write lexicons, exegesis of the Quran. That must be it all these professionals are wrong including those that teach at my university but someone on the internet that can not figure out the different between rotation and revolution is right. Hilarious.

وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ
Lamuassi-oon
The additional letter here "Laam" ( according to "earab", a branch of Arabic language studies ) is a harf-tawkeed --> affirmation-letter.

root و س ع
the only difference that can be made in meaning is by "Tashkeel"
وَسَّعّ : to extent, to widen, to enlarge
أَوْسَعَ : to give generously, to grant willingly
and a word widely used in Arabic: بِوِسْعِيْ : I am able to, I am willing to.

Which combined with the past tense I mentioned show that Allah made it vast, widen, etc. Now that Allah is continuing to do so. Constructed is past tense, construction is present tense. Again learn what verbs actually do....

 

[FearGod]

It says no such thing. A pillar holds up an object but the atmosphere is present down to gravity of the Earth, it pulls into towards the core, that is not supporting it as if it could fall to the ground. Also the magnetic field helps retain the atmosphere as it protects it from solar winds. This field is not part of the sky nor can be a pillar. Post hoc rationalization

what keep the moon in its sky and the earth in its sky and Mars in its sky and no pillars is seen,
very hard to understand indeed, post hoc rationalization.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

And if they translated the verse correctly then you claim that they did it for a purpose and if they make mistakes such as this one then you agree with them.

Which firmly places the sky on Earth as a barrier to anything external to the universe. Never mind other planets or objects in orbit. Why is this gateway restricted to Earth when any place in the universe. This reflect the classic idea that the Earth is the center of everything.

Because we're on earth and then we move our way to heaven for the next life, hard for the disbelievers to understand such things, for you the last road is to the tomb.

Falling down. This is a location reference from Earth with object falling towards to reference point. Planets do not have fixed positions, which is again a classical view not a modern view. Objects can and have knocks planets out of their orbit. Take Pluto and Neptune for example. If gravity ceased all objects would bleed away their momentum eventually becoming fixed objects. The Quran suggests the exact opposite effect

The planets are floating in their own orbits and hence their positions are fixed according to their orbits and that will fail at the end of times.

The Sun Will Eventually Engulf Earth--Maybe - Scientific American

 

[FearGod]

Idiot like professionals which know classical Arabic, that write lexicons, exegesis of the Quran. That must be it all these professionals are wrong including those that teach at my university but someone on the internet that can not figure out the different between rotation and revolution is right. Hilarious.

وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ
Lamuassi-oon
The additional letter here "Laam" ( according to "earab", a branch of Arabic language studies ) is a harf-tawkeed --> affirmation-letter.

root و س ع
the only difference that can be made in meaning is by "Tashkeel"
وَسَّعّ : to extent, to widen, to enlarge
أَوْسَعَ : to give generously, to grant willingly
and a word widely used in Arabic: بِوِسْعِيْ : I am able to, I am willing to.

Which combined with the past tense I mentioned show that Allah made it vast, widen, etc. Now that Allah is continuing to do so. Constructed is past tense, construction is present tense. Again learn what verbs actually do....

That is kind of crap.

Many of them who you call them as professionals have their own translations, let's see who's the right professor among them and maybe your teacher have similar silly translations as you did.


وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ


Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning
Muhammad Asad

AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.
M. M. Pickthall

We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Shakir

And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)

With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938)

With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar And We built the heaven with potency. And, truly, We are ones who extend wide.
Wahiduddin Khan

We built the universe with Our might, giving it its vast expanse.
T.B.Irving The sky We have built firmly and We are extending it.
[Al-Muntakhab]

And the heaven with its regions, spheres and realms of space did We skillfully, powerfully and authoritatively construct and We are expanding the universe
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition)

And We constructed the universe using matter, and We will expand it.
Abdel Haleem

We built the heavens with Our power and made them vast,
Abdul Majid Daryabadi

And the heaven! We have built it with might, and verily We are powerful.
Ahmed Ali

We built the heavens by Our authority; and We are the Lord of power and expanse.
Aisha Bewley

As for heaven — We built it with great power and gave it its vast expanse.
Ali Ünal

And the heaven, We have constructed it mightily, and it is surely We Who have vast power, and keep expanding it.
Ali Quli Qara'i

We have built the sky with might, and indeed it is We who are its expanders.
Hamid S. Aziz

And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and it is We that expand the vastness of space (or We are the expanders of it).
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali

And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.
Muhammad Sarwar

We have made the heavens with Our own hands and We expanded it.
Muhammad Taqi Usmani

And the sky was built by Us with might; and indeed We are the expanders.
Shabbir Ahmed -- And it is We Who have built the Universe, and behold, We are steadily expanding it.
Syed Vickar Ahamed -- With Power (and Skill) did We construct the (mighty Arch of the) heaven : Verily, We are Who create the vastness of space with it.
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) --

And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Farook Malik --

We have built the heavens with Our hands, for We have the power to do so.
Dr. Munir Munshey -- With Our power and prowess, We brought into being the universe. And indeed, We expand it (steadily)!
Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri -- And We built the heavenly universe with great might. And surely, We are expanding (this universe) more and more.
Dr. Kamal Omar -- And the heaven: We constructed it with (Our Own) hands; and surely We are indeed those Who make expansion and create vastness.
Talal A. Itani -- We constructed the universe with power, and We are expanding it.
Bilal Muhammad -- With power and skill did We construct the firmament, for it is We Who create the vastness of space.
Maududi -- And heaven – We made it with Our Own Power and We have the Power to do so.
The Monotheist Group -- And the heaven We constructed with resources, and We are expanding it.
adh-Dhariyat 51:47

 

[FearGod]

Idiot like professionals which know classical Arabic, that write lexicons, exegesis of the Quran. That must be it all these professionals are wrong including those that teach at my university but someone on the internet that can not figure out the different between rotation and revolution is right. Hilarious.

وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ
Lamuassi-oon
The additional letter here "Laam" ( according to "earab", a branch of Arabic language studies ) is a harf-tawkeed --> affirmation-letter.

root و س ع
the only difference that can be made in meaning is by "Tashkeel"
وَسَّعّ : to extent, to widen, to enlarge
أَوْسَعَ : to give generously, to grant willingly
and a word widely used in Arabic: بِوِسْعِيْ : I am able to, I am willing to.

Which combined with the past tense I mentioned show that Allah made it vast, widen, etc. Now that Allah is continuing to do so. Constructed is past tense, construction is present tense. Again learn what verbs actually do....

Interesting how you copy and paste from other forums while you don't understand what you're copying.

Here's the link that you copy from wow is that luck?

 

[gnostic]

Yes the sky is the one expanding and sky is the space and not the universe, there is no word for universe in the quran, الكون which is translated as universe, in Arabic it means all existing things and that is different than the skies which is a part of a whole

You said that the sky is the expanse then how it is a solid dome.

Did you fail in reading skills?

That's how both ancient and medieval people view the sky (heaven), as a firmament, which means a "dome" or "vault".

And another name for sky was the "expanse" in those time.

They didn't know about space beyond the Earth's atmosphere. They thought everything from rain, clouds, stars, sun and moon were all within the firmament. They thought the 7 heavens were within that dome, like concentric layers of atmospheres.

If you go back to previous post (post 106), I had quoted 2 translations of Qur'an 41:12.

Dr Ghali translation referred to the sky as "seven heavens", while the Yusuf Ali translation referred to the sky as "seven firmaments", this mean there are "7 domes", each one on top of the others.

Doing what you did, I had used the Google Translate, and entered the words "heavens" and "firmaments" (plural for both of them), and I got the same Arabic translation - السماوات.

If heavens don't mean "domes", then why do we get السماوات, for both translations of heavens and firmaments, in Google Translate and in the translations of Dr Ghali and Yusuf Ali?

So what does that tell you? I know what it tells me: it tell me, even today, Arabs still view the word "heaven" or "sky", as a "dome", hence a "firmament", because that's what firmament means - "dome".

Furthermore, it say the stars - or "lamps" or "lights" as both translations called the stars - were located at "lower heaven" (Yusuf Ali) or "lowest heaven" (Dr Ghali).

Does that mean the moon and sun are in the "higher" heaven or firmament?

And if the stars are in the lowest heaven, does that mean the birds fly at the same level as the stars?

Have they not regarded the birds subjected in the firmament of the heaven? In no way does anyone hold them except Allah. Surely in that are, indeed, signs for a people who believe.

Or do the birds fly even higher than the stars?

And getting back to "expanse", we have the expanse associate with firmament or dome:

With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.

Doesn't "the vastness of pace" means "expanse"????

If so, then the expanse is within the dome or firmament. If so, then it is not talking about outside of the dome, outer space.

And lastly, but not least.

In astronomy, and I mean real astronomy, and not the BS from the Qur'an, is that Earth and all the other planets would formed in space. But not so in the Qur'an. It would seemed that seven heavens was created after Earth, and it was built on top of Earth.

Yusuf Ali translation:

And (have We not) built over you the seven firmaments,

Dr Ghali translation:

And We have built above you seven strong (heavens),

If I was god, and Earth was a planet, like others around the solar system, then I would create the space first, then solar system later. But the above translations, say that the seven firmaments (or 7 domes) or seven heavens was created or built over you, so a dome(s) over the Earth. It would be like saying I am going to built a roof over you.

This doesn't make sense in real astronomy, that because the Qur'an is not a bl@@dy science book.The Qur'an give conflicting information about the sky.

 

[Shad]

Interesting how you copy and paste from other forums while you don't understand what you're copying.

Here's the link that you copy from wow is that luck?

I am a member of that forum. I talk to the people on it and ask them questions about Arabic as many speak Arabic. A few speak classical Arabic. All I am doing is using a resource which I contribute to where as you have provided what? Google translate with omitting other definition from Goggle translate which do not fit your view.

 

[Shad]

That is kind of crap.

Many of them who you call them as professionals have their own translations, let's see who's the right professor among them and maybe your teacher have similar silly translations as you did.


وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ


Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning
Muhammad Asad

AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.
M. M. Pickthall

We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Shakir

And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)

With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938)

With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar And We built the heaven with potency. And, truly, We are ones who extend wide.
Wahiduddin Khan

We built the universe with Our might, giving it its vast expanse.
T.B.Irving The sky We have built firmly and We are extending it.
[Al-Muntakhab]

And the heaven with its regions, spheres and realms of space did We skillfully, powerfully and authoritatively construct and We are expanding the universe
[The Monotheist Group] (2011 Edition)

And We constructed the universe using matter, and We will expand it.
Abdel Haleem

We built the heavens with Our power and made them vast,
Abdul Majid Daryabadi

And the heaven! We have built it with might, and verily We are powerful.
Ahmed Ali

We built the heavens by Our authority; and We are the Lord of power and expanse.
Aisha Bewley

As for heaven — We built it with great power and gave it its vast expanse.
Ali Ünal

And the heaven, We have constructed it mightily, and it is surely We Who have vast power, and keep expanding it.
Ali Quli Qara'i

We have built the sky with might, and indeed it is We who are its expanders.
Hamid S. Aziz

And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and it is We that expand the vastness of space (or We are the expanders of it).
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali

And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.
Muhammad Sarwar

We have made the heavens with Our own hands and We expanded it.
Muhammad Taqi Usmani

And the sky was built by Us with might; and indeed We are the expanders.
Shabbir Ahmed -- And it is We Who have built the Universe, and behold, We are steadily expanding it.
Syed Vickar Ahamed -- With Power (and Skill) did We construct the (mighty Arch of the) heaven : Verily, We are Who create the vastness of space with it.
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) --

And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Farook Malik --

We have built the heavens with Our hands, for We have the power to do so.
Dr. Munir Munshey -- With Our power and prowess, We brought into being the universe. And indeed, We expand it (steadily)!
Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri -- And We built the heavenly universe with great might. And surely, We are expanding (this universe) more and more.
Dr. Kamal Omar -- And the heaven: We constructed it with (Our Own) hands; and surely We are indeed those Who make expansion and create vastness.
Talal A. Itani -- We constructed the universe with power, and We are expanding it.
Bilal Muhammad -- With power and skill did We construct the firmament, for it is We Who create the vastness of space.
Maududi -- And heaven – We made it with Our Own Power and We have the Power to do so.
The Monotheist Group -- And the heaven We constructed with resources, and We are expanding it.
adh-Dhariyat 51:47

Notice the dates? Did I not tell you after 1920-30 the translations changed. Language is a human invention, as we develop ideas we need the language to reflect such a development. Notice the difference between words like vast and expander. Notice the difference between "We are able" and "We are the expanders" All you have done is further provide evidence that the definitions have changed according to person and time. Look up each translator. The closer to the present time they lived the greater the shift in the translation. By sides this if all these are generally accept but disagree how can you put forward the word is expander or expanding when your own citation does not confirm this.

 

[FearGod]

I am a member of that forum. I talk to the people on it and ask them questions about Arabic as many speak Arabic. A few speak classical Arabic. All I am doing is using a resource which I contribute to where as you have provided what? Google translate with omitting other definition from Goggle translate which do not fit your view.

LOL, i believe the atheists because they always care to tell the truth.

 

[Shad]

what keep the moon in its sky and the earth in its sky and Mars in its sky and no pillars is seen,
very hard to understand indeed, post hoc rationalization

Pillars hold an object up yet the sky is held in place by the pull of gravity to the support of a force. Hence it is post hoc rationalization based on your own ignorance of the relationship between an atmosphere and gravity. It is not hard to understand at all.

And if they translated the verse correctly then you claim that they did it for a purpose and if they make mistakes such as this one then you agree with them.

Built is synonymous with constructed. Not my problem you do not understand what words mean.

Because we're on earth and then we move our way to heaven for the next life, hard for the disbelievers to understand such things, for you the last road is to the tomb.

Yet we have gone into space. There are plans for colonization. Why is Earth even required at all given the possibilities of the future. To me it seems like the standard classical Earth is the enter of everything and a complete lack of knowledge about anything outside 7th century ideas.

The planets are floating in their own orbits and hence their positions are fixed according to their orbits and that will fail at the end of times.

The Sun Will Eventually Engulf Earth--Maybe - Scientific American

A fixed position is a position that does not move, hence the word fixed. Orbits are not fixed. Orbits have change as per my example. Without gravity to provide the slingshot effect momentum is bleed but never gained. Thus without gravity objects will come to rest at a fixed position once all momentum is bleed away become fixed. Your link is irrelevant since it is about the end of our Sun, not gravity as a whole. There will still be gravity without the Sun... Also your source is evidence for exactly what I said, orbits are not fixed but can be altered by other objects. We do not need to wait for the Sun to die, it happens even now. Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia How is something fixed when it changes?

 

[Shad]

LOL, i believe the atheists because they always care to tell the truth.

This is meaningless and is not an argument. I could easily put forward that theists follow confirmation bias. The evidence for this is obvious as most religions claim their view is right while there is no one single unified religion accepted by all of humanity. Following confirmation bias shows a lacking of critical thinking and the ability to reason. However this is not an argument, it is an ad hominem which is a fallacy. Again you are demonstrating you do not know the difference between a justified statement and a fallacious one

 

[FearGod]

Notice the dates? Did I not tell you after 1920-30 the translations changed. Language is a human invention, as we develop ideas we need the language to reflect such a development. Notice the difference between words like vast and expander. Notice the difference between "We are able" and "We are the expanders" All you have done is further provide evidence that the definitions have changed according to person and time. Look up each translator. The closer to the present time they lived the greater the shift in the translation. By sides this if all these are generally accept but disagree how can you put forward the word is expander or expanding when your own citation does not confirm this.

Ibn Kathir was born 800 years ago and he interpreted the verse the same as i and the others did.

{47} وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

يَقُول تَعَالَى مُنَبِّهًا عَلَى خَلْق الْعَالَم الْعُلْوِيّ وَالسُّفْلِيّ" وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا " أَيْ جَعَلْنَاهَا سَقْفًا مَحْفُوظًا رَفِيعًا " بِأَيْدٍ " أَيْ بِقُوَّةٍ قَالَهُ اِبْن عَبَّاس وَمُجَاهِد وَقَتَادَة وَالثَّوْرِيّ وَغَيْر وَاحِد " وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ " أَيْ قَدْ وَسَّعْنَا أَرْجَاءَهَا وَرَفَعْنَاهَا بِغَيْرِ عَمَد حَتَّى اِسْتَقَلَّتْ كَمَا هِيَ .

 

[Shad]

Ibn Kathir was born 800 years ago and he interpreted the verse the same as i and the others did.

{47} وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

يَقُول تَعَالَى مُنَبِّهًا عَلَى خَلْق الْعَالَم الْعُلْوِيّ وَالسُّفْلِيّ" وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا " أَيْ جَعَلْنَاهَا سَقْفًا مَحْفُوظًا رَفِيعًا " بِأَيْدٍ " أَيْ بِقُوَّةٍ قَالَهُ اِبْن عَبَّاس وَمُجَاهِد وَقَتَادَة وَالثَّوْرِيّ وَغَيْر وَاحِد " وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ " أَيْ قَدْ وَسَّعْنَا أَرْجَاءَهَا وَرَفَعْنَاهَا بِغَيْرِ عَمَد حَتَّى اِسْتَقَلَّتْ كَمَا هِيَ .

You are equivocating sky with universe, again. It does not say universe nor is translated as such. It is not done in work by professionals as per my citations below nor does it match what your own Google translation tool changes it to in English. Funny how you claim the word means expand yet your own sources and tools disagree

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Allah swears by His Creation that the Person Who purifies Himself will be Successful

Again it says Allah is able to, not that Allah is doing so. Again it is using a past tense


Tafsir Ibn Kathir Juz' 22 (Part 22): Al-Azhab 31 to YA-Sin 27 2nd Edition - Muhammad Saed Abdul-Rahman - Google Books

Able not doing, again

Tafsir Ibn Kathir all 10 volumes - IslamKotob - Google Books
Tafsir Ibn Kathir: (abridged) - Ismāʻīl ibn ʻUmar Ibn Kathīr, Ṣafī al-Raḥmān Mubārakfūrī - Google Books
Full text of "Tafseer Ibn Kathir (English, 114 Surah's Complete)"
Quran Surah (Sura) Dhariyat, Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Arabic English, HTMl,
PDF, with Recitation By Said Al Ghamdi MP3, Free Download

People that make a citation while ignoring what the text actually says are hilarious. Again not reading what you link.

I also noticed the insult you placed in your Arabic comment. Poor form when it follows a citation which is evidence of my position not your own.

 

[FearGod]

Pillars hold an object up yet the sky is held in place by the pull of gravity to the support of a force. Hence it is post hoc rationalization based on your own ignorance of the relationship between an atmosphere and gravity. It is not hard to understand at all.

Gravitational forces doesn't need an atmosphere.

Built is synonymous with constructed. Not my problem you do not understand what words mean.

I understand it very well but you're the one no nothing about the Arabic language other than copying and pasting from the others.

Yet we have gone into space. There are plans for colonization. Why is Earth even required at all given the possibilities of the future. To me it seems like the standard classical Earth is the enter of everything and a complete lack of knowledge about anything outside 7th century ideas.

That has nothing to do with what i had said, it seems that you don't even know what we were talking about

A fixed position is a position that does not move, hence the word fixed. Orbits are not fixed. Orbits have change as per my example. Without gravity to provide the slingshot effect momentum is bleed but never gained. Thus without gravity objects will come to rest at a fixed position once all momentum is bleed away become fixed. Your link is irrelevant since it is about the end of our Sun, not gravity as a whole. There will still be gravity without the Sun... Also your source is evidence for exactly what I said, orbits are not fixed but can be altered by other objects. We do not need to wait for the Sun to die, it happens even now. Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia How is something fixed when it changes?

when i say planets are fixed in their orbits that doesn't mean that the orbits are fixed in their positions.

Collapse doesn't mean that there is no gravitational forces but it means that the system will fail.

 

[FearGod]

You are equivocating sky with universe, again. It does not say universe nor is translated as such. It is not done in work by professionals as per my citations below nor does it match what your own Google translation tool changes it to in English. Funny how you claim the word means expand yet your own sources and tools disagree

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Allah swears by His Creation that the Person Who purifies Himself will be Successful

Again it says Allah is able to, not that Allah is doing so. Again it is using a past tense


Tafsir Ibn Kathir Juz' 22 (Part 22): Al-Azhab 31 to YA-Sin 27 2nd Edition - Muhammad Saed Abdul-Rahman - Google Books

Able not doing, again

Tafsir Ibn Kathir all 10 volumes - IslamKotob - Google Books
Tafsir Ibn Kathir: (abridged) - Ismāʻīl ibn ʻUmar Ibn Kathīr, Ṣafī al-Raḥmān Mubārakfūrī - Google Books
Full text of "Tafseer Ibn Kathir (English, 114 Surah's Complete)"

People that make a citation while ignoring what the text actually says are hilarious. Again not reading what you link.

I also noticed the insult you placed in your Arabic comment. Poor form when it follows a citation which is evidence of my position not your own.

Which insult, what rubbish you're talking about ?

I showed you the interpretation of Ibn Kathir which says that the sky is expanding and this interpretation is 800 years old, but i know that you don't know Arabic.

The universe doesn't expand but the space is only expanding.

 

[Shad]

Gravitational forces doesn't need an atmosphere.

I never said it did. I said the understand that pillar keep the ksy up is incorrect. Gravity pulls an atmosphere to the ground which is the opposite of a pillar analgoue

I understand it very well but you're the one no nothing about the Arabic language other than copying and pasting from the others.

You mean quoting translations of your sources by author's before the big bang. Translations of ibn Kathir which support my view while all you have is a claim to know Arabic all while using Google translate and ignoring the definition your own citation provides. Yes that must be it. Let see I have quoted lexicons, books, and other author while your one cited source does not agree with you.

That has nothing to do with what i had said, it seems that you don't even know what we were talking about

Yes it does. The point was the in classical ideas the Earth is the center of the universe. We have moved beyond such ideas. The fact is a "door way" need not be in the sky at all. Such a position is only relevant to those that confined their world view to Earth and not the knowledge we have now.

when i say planets are fixed in their orbits that doesn't mean that the orbits are fixed in their positions.

Yet my examples should orbits are not even fixed. Read my links

Collapse doesn't mean that there is no gravitational forces but it means that the system will fail.

You said and I quote, "Yes it's about the gravitational forces and how things were kept fixed in their places."

You then followed this with a reference to the end of the Sun. However without the Sun gravity still exists, just the central point of the solar system's gravitational forces ceases but planets, moons, stars and other objects still are focal points of gravity. Also if you read your own link the end of the Sun will happen long after the Earth is not longer inhabitable. The Red Giant phase will kill life on Earth as we know it today.

 

[Shad]

Which insult, what rubbish you're talking about ?

I showed you the interpretation of Ibn Kathir which says that the sky is expanding and this interpretation is 800 years old, but i know that you don't know Arabic.

The universe doesn't expand but the space is only expanding.

That I must know Arabic to understand Arabic when in fact there are various tools such as lexicons, referencing translations, dictionaries. This whole must know Arabic is an insult itself suggesting that one can not know anything without learning the language completely. Yet you have not provided one source which does not contradict your claims.Yet I have provided linked references which agree with my view repeatedly.

No you linked the words, you did not provide a citation or reference. I did. The ones I linked do not use the word expand. Also the sources say able to, not a current action happening.

"The universe doesn't expand" If Heavens is eqivocated with universe, not space, you just refuted your own argument... I await your ad hoc rationalization in which space become equivocated with Heavens

 

[FearGod]

I never said it did. I said the understand that pillar keep the ksy up is incorrect. Gravity pulls an atmosphere to the ground which is the opposite of a pillar analgoue



You mean quoting translations of your sources by author's before the big bang. Translations of ibn Kathir which support my view while all you have is a claim to know Arabic all while using Google translate and ignoring the definition your own citation provides. Yes that must be it. Let see I have quoted lexicons, books, and other author while your one cited source does not agree with you.





Yes it does. The point was the in classical ideas the Earth is the center of the universe. We have moved beyond such ideas. The fact is a "door way" need not be in the sky at all. Such a position is only relevant to those that confined their world view to Earth and not the knowledge we have now.





Yet my examples should orbits are not even fixed. Read my links



You said and I quote, "Yes it's about the gravitational forces and how things were kept fixed in their places."

You then followed this with a reference to the end of the Sun. However without the Sun gravity still exists, just the central point of the solar system's gravitational forces ceases but planets, moons, stars and other objects still are focal points of gravity. Also if you read your own link the end of the Sun will happen long after the Earth is not longer inhabitable. The Red Giant phase will kill life on Earth as we know it today.

Debating with you is a loss of time, good luck

 

[Shad]

Debating with you is a loss of time, good luck

Make a better effort next time so you do not waste your time. Learn to back statement with citations that do not contradict your view. Learn how gravity works. Those methods are much more useful then clueless miracle seeking.