Saudi school lessons in UK concern government

[Sahar]

Darkness, what if such statements were taught to Muslim children in a private school: "...adultery is a crime and it deserves a legal penalty." or such one "According to Islamic Shari'a, adultery is a crime so as homosexual sex and the legal penalties for them is this and that including execution"? Should people be jailed for this?

 

[Sahar]

For example, there are instances where european women were harassed and even assaulted in their own country by muslim immigrants for walking unattended by a male and for not wearing a ha jib. If they can't respect the local norms and culture then they have no business being there. That's the issue, a foreign culture trying to impose itself on the local culture, so it's understandable that europeans would be wary of things that openly threaten their personal rights and liberty.

But European women are not harassed and assaulted in their own countries by the natives?

 

[Darkness]

Darkness, what if such statements were taught to Muslim children in a private school: "...adultery is a crime and it deserves a legal penalty." or such one "According to Islamic Shari'a, adultery is a crime so as homosexual sex and the legal penalties for them is this and that including execution"? Should people be jailed for this?

I would not jail them, but I would revoke their teaching privileges. They might face some fines and/or penalties. And if the school was known to encourage this sort of teaching, I would have it closed down and taken over by the state authorities. Education is the domain of the state and schools are teaching our children on behalf of the state. They have no right spreading their own backwards, bigoted beliefs.

 

[kai]

Panda, is there a reason why freedom of speech should be overlooked in this case? Perhaps because it involves Islam. Are Neo-Nazis any better?

is this the way to teach Islam? no it should be in the national curriculam for the whole country to see, not hidden away.

 

[kai]

Darkness, what if such statements were taught to Muslim children in a private school: "...adultery is a crime and it deserves a legal penalty." or such one "According to Islamic Shari'a, adultery is a crime so as homosexual sex and the legal penalties for them is this and that including execution"? Should people be jailed for this?

no one is being jaled for it and no one is advocating being jailed for it . Its not acceptable in Britain to teach it in this way , and i have no doubt that because of this exposure the teachings will be taught in the right way( in context, surely thats what you want ).

I believe the hud punishments in sharia should be taught in all schools and in fact spread all over the daily newspapers so that people in britian can truly understand this part of Islam.I mean it shouldnt be taught in secret the whole world should hear it.

 

[kai]

I would not jail them, but I would revoke their teaching privileges. They might face some fines and/or penalties. And if the school was known to encourage this sort of teaching, I would have it closed down and taken over by the state authorities. Education is the domain of the state and schools are teaching our children on behalf of the state. They have no right spreading their own backwards, bigoted beliefs.

Nothing will happen to anyone! its Britain not Saudi Arabia, they will just be told to alter the teaching methods. the Muslims here are creating a smoke screen over free speech .

I beleive the more western people know of these teachings the better they should put it in Religious education in all schools not just Muslim ones.

 

[Sahar]

no one is being jaled for it and no one is advocating being jailed for it . Its not acceptable in Britain to teach it in this way , and i have no doubt that because of this exposure the teachings will be taught in the right way( in context, surely thats what you want ).

What's this right way?

 

[kai]

What's this right way?

In context ,the way muslims tell us on RF when we post things out of context ,I have seen it a hundred time people post a violent quote like "kill the Jews wherever you find them" and a muslim will say "hey that's out of context"

 

[Sahar]

In context ,the way muslims tell us on RF when we post things out of context ,I have seen it a hundred time people post a violent quote like "kill the Jews wherever you find them" and a muslim will say "hey that's out of context"

So what is the missing context?

 

[kai]

So what is the missing context?

no idea !

But the Saudis have said :

Saudi officials quoted by the BBC disavowed direct responsibility for the schools and clubs and described the teachings cited in the program as having been “taken out of their historical context".

and

Neal Robinson, a theology professor at Leeds University who has written widely about the Koran and Islamic teachings, said in the BBC program that the material cited from the textbooks was taken from ancient texts, and added: “To present it cold, as it is here, as part of the teaching of Islam, is not wise. In the wrong hands, yes, I think it is ammunition for anti-Semitism.”


no one here knows anything about it so all the hullabaloo is pointless. Lets wait and see what happens, its not big news in the UK and no one is being arrested and slung in jail for it, no one is even saying its illegal all their saying is its not being taught in the correct way.


PS> thats my underlining in the Saudi quote.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/world/europe/23britain.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

 

[Sahar]

no idea !

But the Saudis have said :

Saudi officials quoted by the BBC disavowed direct responsibility for the schools and clubs and described the teachings cited in the program as having been “taken out of their historical context".

Oh, if it is concerning the Jews then there is a context indeed.

 

[Father Heathen]

But European women are not harassed and assaulted in their own countries by the natives?

Not with the pretense of religious and cultural justification and not on such a scale. Also, two wrongs don't make a right so it's beside the point. The point is that people shouldn't immigrate to a country if they cannot respect the local culture. Instead of integrating they try to impose their own culture through violence and intimidation.

 

[Father Heathen]

Listen, you did say voicing the above statement was fine by you. I asked you what if this same statement and opinion was taught to children...this was my question...I'd like to know your answer, if you don't mind.

Teaching something to children from an objective standpoint - and encouraging children to actually adopt and practice something - are two very different things.

 

[Sahar]

Not with the pretense of religious and cultural justification and not on such a scale.

What justification they usually use?

The point is that people shouldn't immigrate to a country if they cannot respect the local culture. Instead of integrating they try to impose their own culture through violence and intimidation.

Ok, anyway I don't see how this is relevant. When anyone breaks the law whether immigrant or native, it must be punished....

 

[Father Heathen]

What justification they usually use?

I don't believe they use any - the typical violent thug doesn't pretend to be righteous or justified in their crimes.

Ok, anyway I don't see how this is relevant. When anyone breaks the law whether immigrant or native, it must be punished....

Well, the article gave the impression that the school was encouraging children to carry out discrimination and even violence against homosexuals, Jews and other perceived enemies of Islam. Also, why should someone be punished for something that isn't a crime at their location?

 

[Sahar]

Teaching something to children from an objective standpoint - and encouraging children to actually adopt and practice something - are two very different things.

Ok, I see and I don't disagree. I think what these children were taught is no different from the example I gave you. I live in a country where the hudood penalties are not applied. I have learned about it in school, then I did my own research on these issues. The majority of Muslims believe in the penalties prescribed in Islam yet they don't carry out the penalties by themselves because there is a legal system; a legal system of the Islamic state. Even if the current legal system doesn't adopt them, they know that it's not their job. We all read about the Islamic prescribed penalties for a variety of crimes and it's really foolishness to even assume that it's a call to carry out them away from the legal system.

 

[Sahar]

I don't believe they use any - the typical violent thug doesn't pretend to be righteous or justified in their crimes.

This includes the immigrant criminals, right?

Well, the article gave the impression that the school was encouraging children to carry out discrimination and even violence against homosexuals, Jews and other perceived enemies of Islam. Also, why should someone be punished for something that isn't a crime at their location?

It was the expression of the Islamic law view regardless of the location. It should be punished means when Islamic Shari'a becomes the ruling constitution of the country. All the time I say adultery when witnessed should be punished although there is no actual penalty for adultery in my country. The theoretical teachings are a thing and the attempt to implement them is a different thing. There are aspect where I can implement individually like the different acts of worship and the good manners... etc. and there are things that need an Islamic state and government to be implemented; the penalties are one of them, like any other country.

 

[YmirGF]

Listen, you did say voicing the above statement was fine by you. I asked you what if this same statement and opinion was taught to children...this was my question...I'd like to know your answer, if you don't mind.

Actually I think that Muslims who teach these things to children should be charged with child abuse and perhaps Crimes against humanity - but that's just me.

We can only hope that no country becomes so irrational as to fully adopt Sharia law.

 

[Smoke]

Darkness, what if such statements were taught to Muslim children in a private school: "...adultery is a crime and it deserves a legal penalty." or such one "According to Islamic Shari'a, adultery is a crime so as homosexual sex and the legal penalties for them is this and that including execution"? Should people be jailed for this?

Well, fair's fair. If it's okay to teach that gay people should be killed, it's equally acceptable to teach that Muslims should be killed. I don't care what you decide as long as the same standard applies across the board.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You seem to have an objection to the right of freedom of speech. Isn't it ironic to contrast this thread with that of "Palestinian Atheist Arrested" thread.

The fact is that they are not harming anyone and as such it is not a punishable offense. It's not a public school and is out of the jurisdiction of the state. There is no legal punishment to ascribe.

Nothing is outside the jurisdiction of the state.It has never been found necessary to check the children's reading matter before.
Teaching hate has always been illegal. now we will have have to start policing what children are taught, because of this Muslim mind set.
The application of sharia Law is illegal in the UK. Only British law is legal.

I rather doubt we would be allowed to teach Christian dogma to children in Saudi Arabia. ( and that would be teaching only love)