Saved from what?

[Poisonshady313]

I think the question is "what does God save you from"? I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing.

My answer was the wrath of God. God saves us from Himself as righteous judge, and He saves us to Himself as Heavenly Faither.

I believe your answer was - myself.

Every Yom Kippur, Jews refer to God as "our father, our king" no less than 44 times.


What you've told us is that the goal of salvation is to diminish God's capacity in our life and in this universe to no longer be "our father, our king".. but only "our father".

You deny the power God gave each and every one of us to make the right choice and do the right thing, resigning us all to the attitude that we're all a bunch of screwups anyway, so rather than have personal responsibility for our actions, we'll simply throw out the rule book so that we can't be held responsible for anything.


If I'm to believe what you've written is representative of the attitude of Christianity... Christianity has reduced God to nothing more than an omnipresent doormat.

God's word doesn't matter anymore, 'cause whatever trouble you might have gotten yourself in, uncle Jesus is there to bail you out.

Does that sound right?

 

[Kcnorwood]

"Evil" and "sin" are two different things.

To sin is evil........

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Being a wiccan over believing in Christ...quite interesting.

Wicca, the religion

How do you get along with the Mormons on this site?

To say that bringing this up and changing the subject was ridiculous would be an understatement. Buuuut.... I just can't resist!! (I'm being silly here).

The Mormons get along perfectly fine with Draka, and Draka gets along perfectly fine with them. They love her and she loves them, and they don't just love her cause thier church told them to; they love her cause she's a cool person. And while I'm at it, Wicca is awsome.
:bb:
Don't knock it 'til you understand it as it is meant to be understood.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Then we do disagree.

"The wrath of God" is a response to something, it's not something that is innately part of Him.

Christians are saved for the coming day of wrath. What do you think about the coming day of the Lord? What do you do think the 2nd advent of Christ is about?

Luke 3:7:
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" Revelation 6

John 3:36:
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

1. Romans 1:18
   [ God's Wrath Against Mankind ] The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
2. Romans 2:5
   But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
3. Romans 2:8
   But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

 

[Draka]

Awful lot of wrath for someone suppose to love us so. :sarcastic

It's things like that that paint the picture of a jealous and egomaniacal god that is glowering down at us stamping his feet as if in temper tantrum..."Love me or else!"

Now really. Why would an all-knowing, ever-present, loving deity feel the need to do that?

And the better question: ...Why do you feel such a pull to worship such a vindictive and immature sounding deity? Sounds more like an abusive parent than a loving one.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Awful lot of wrath for someone suppose to love us so. :sarcastic
quote]


I know right....

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Awful lot of wrath for someone suppose to love us so. :sarcastic
quote]


I know right....

That is what the cross is all about. God poured out His wrath upon His Son for those who would believe in Christ. It is an amazing act of divine love!

Romans 5:8:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us (believers only).

Isaiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[Poisonshady313]

That is what the cross is all about. God poured out His wrath upon His Son for those who would believe in Christ. It is an amazing act of divine love!

Romans 5:8:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us (believers only).

Isaiah 53

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

If there was a way to take frubals away from someone, I would do it as a result of this post.

I can't stand to see words of my holy text mistranslated, misapplied, misunderstood, and misused.

 

[Azakel]

If there was a way to take frubals away from someone, I would do it as a result of this post.

I can't stand to see words of my holy text mistranslated, misapplied, misunderstood, and misused.

They used to have negative frubals but it got out of hand with some people and all.

 

[darkendless]

If there was a way to take frubals away from someone, I would do it as a result of this post.

I can't stand to see words of my holy text mistranslated, misapplied, misunderstood, and misused.

Biblical quotes should only be applied in biblical arguements, discussion over God is up to whats in your head, not words on a page.
In my experience, bible is not evidence but a source, not a very right one at that. I think faith and reinforced belief is acceptable, but the bible does not apply.

Fish-Hunter, without using the bible, tell me why God is so loving, also how do you know this and why does he seem to neglect his people?

 

[Draka]

That is what the cross is all about. God poured out His wrath upon His Son for those who would believe in Christ. It is an amazing act of divine love!

Romans 5:8:
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us (believers only).

Wow. Really loving father there. Let me see if I get this straight. A deity makes humankind, gives humankind good and evil, gives ability to "sin", gives free will, gets all testy when his creation uses free will and sins, sends down his own son to ultimately torture and kill all for the "sake" of the sinners. ....YET everyone must still be in fear of his wrath and be saved because the only ones that matter are the ones who don't use free will and who follow a certain religion that tells them to believe a certain way or burn in hell and these are the ones who are safe from this vengeful and sadistic god. Check...gotcha.

Still glad about not having anything to do with that belief you got there. Sorry, I'm not a masochist.