Saved from what?

[Fish-Hunter]

When something is broken, it must be fixed. Whether it's broken in the first place might be a disagreement we might have.

I think if we get back to the main question, what does God save us from we can have additional insight? What is the consequences of being broken? Or, what does broken mean? Jesus saves sinners according to the Scriptures. What does Jesus save us from?

1 Timothy 1:15:
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

God's Wrath Against Mankind - Rom 1

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 

[Kcnorwood]

What does Jesus save us from?
quote]


His father...I still do not get the point in being saved from what he created it makes no sence. God created this problem & now he wants to save us... please...

 

[Fish-Hunter]

What does Jesus save us from?
quote]


His father...I still do not get the point in being saved from what he created it makes no sence. God created this problem & now he wants to save us... please...

That's pretty good. Read Genesis 3 and you will find out that Adam and Eve created this enmity between God and descendant's of Adam (us). God created Adam prior to the fall and called what He created to be very good; man created in the image of God.


26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. - Genesis 2

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

That's pretty good. Read Genesis 3 and you will find out that Adam and Eve created this enmity between God and descendant's of Adam (us). God created Adam prior to the fall and called what He created to be very good; man created in the image of God.


26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day. - Genesis 2

I didn't make the choice to eat that fruit from the forbidden tree! Do I get to have it out with Adam and Eve in Heaven when I die? A sort of... angelic brawl?

Although, even though i personally feel that (from a literal perspective for context) Adam and Eve's choice doesn't affect my nature (it just shows our nature), I have to admit that if I would have been there I know I would have nibbled on it too. "Curiosity killed the cat" is the story of my sinful side. And besides, I bet forbidden fruit is yum yum...:drool:.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

I didn't make the choice to eat that fruit from the forbidden tree! Do I get to have it out with Adam and Eve in Heaven when I die? A sort of... angelic brawl?

Although, even though i personally feel that (from a literal perspective for context) Adam and Eve's choice doesn't affect my nature (it just shows our nature), I have to admit that if I would have been there I know I would have nibbled on it too. "Curiosity killed the cat" is the story of my sinful side. And besides, I bet forbidden fruit is yum yum...:drool:.

I guess biblical revelation only matters if the Bible is the Word of God. Here is Romans 5.

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ


12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Azakel]

So who makes God pay for setting that buliding on fire?

Yo, I'm right here friend.....^_^

I guess biblical revelation only matters if the Bible is the Word of God.

Well that settles it.......(it doesn't matter).:rainbow1:

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Yo, I'm right here friend.....^_^



Well that settles it.......(it doesn't matter).:rainbow1:

It doesn't matter only if the Bible is not the Word of God. I guess since we are all mortal, one day we will all know the truth, because one day we will all die. I don't think enemies of the cross like Charles Darwin, Nietzche, Carl Sagan have returned from the dead to tell us otherwise. I think there is only one historical person has claimed to be risen from the dead, and millions testify to that truth.

 

[Poisonshady313]

It doesn't matter only if the Bible is not the Word of God.

Y'know what? Whenever I bring up the inconsistencies of the genealogy in the book of Matthew, do you know what I'm told? Scribal error... Matthew's just a man.

Whenever you point out that the four gospels have different accounts of Jesus' last words on the cross, or who found his empty tomb, etc... it's said "the story told from four different men".

So much for it being the word of God.

You'd think if it was, God would have told Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the same thing in regards to Jesus' last words, etc...

 

[Draka]

It doesn't matter only if the Bible is not the Word of God. I guess since we are all mortal, one day we will all know the truth, because one day we will all die. I don't think enemies of the cross like Charles Darwin, Nietzche, Carl Sagan have returned from the dead to tell us otherwise. I think there is only one historical person has claimed to be risen from the dead, and millions testify to that truth.

And who would that "historical" person be and in what history books can I find them? And where would would they have been risen in order for it to be witnessed by "millions" in order for them to truthfully "testify" to it? See...that's what you get for thinking, perhaps you should stop now.

 

[Draka]

Y'know what? Whenever I bring up the inconsistencies of the genealogy in the book of Matthew, do you know what I'm told? Scribal error... Matthew's just a man.

Whenever you point out that the four gospels have different accounts of Jesus' last words on the cross, or who found his empty tomb, etc... it's said "the story told from four different men".

So much for it being the word of God.

You'd think if it was, God would have told Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the same thing in regards to Jesus' last words, etc...

Oh, you just "don't get it". It's the "Word of God" except in places where man screwed up and anywhere it is screwed up it is because of man. Men wrote the book, BUT in every place where you can't find it to not be consistent it is the "Word of God". Thing is, if there is no corresponding passage to compare some scripture to it makes it impossible to check the validity and if man did screw up. So you just have to take it on blind faith that they didn't screw up. As for the ones that contradict....well...some Christian will be sure to tell you which passage is the correct one...by their interpretation. Ask ten Christians, get ten answers.

 

[crystalonyx]

. I think there is only one historical person has claimed to be risen from the dead, and millions testify to that truth.

Actually, there are many stories of god-men(demi-gods) raised from the dead.

Which ones to believe?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Actually, there are many stories of god-men(demi-gods) raised from the dead.

Which ones to believe?

Precisely.

...Tibet additionally has an amazing tradition of gifted people who return from clinical death to describe what they experienced. These people are called delogs, or returners from death. Profoundly spiritual, delogs are sent back by enlightened ones to record and share their experiences. Their experiences are in some ways similar to western near death experiences, except that delogs leave their bodies for many days, sometimes up to a week, not just for a few minutes. This allows them to travel far beyond the time of death...

Source

 

[Imagican]

So only Christians are good?

ONLY God is GOOD.

That there are those that choose to make THEMSELVES god does NOT offer any acurate authenticity to their beliefs.

And WE are UNABLE to BE 'good'. That is ONLY able to be imagined and not manifest in our lives.

But then; 'what' IS 'good'? As subjective as any other 'idea' to those that have NO point of reference. It is a relative matter relative to the individual UNTIL one comes to a 'truthful' understanding of 'what' good IS.

 

[Muffled]

I didn't make the choice to eat that fruit from the forbidden tree! Do I get to have it out with Adam and Eve in Heaven when I die? A sort of... angelic brawl?

Although, even though i personally feel that (from a literal perspective for context) Adam and Eve's choice doesn't affect my nature (it just shows our nature), I have to admit that if I would have been there I know I would have nibbled on it too. "Curiosity killed the cat" is the story of my sinful side. And besides, I bet forbidden fruit is yum yum...:drool:.

This is the concept of original sin (there is a debate on this in Biblical Debates) which I don't believe in. You sin because you choose not to be saved from it by God.

Actually you should thank them because if they hadn't acted that way you wouldn't have had a physical life.

Of course because there is no doubt that God empowered Adam and Eve to disobey Him and in the same situation many would make the same choice and if there are some that wouldn't make that choice God can always find someone who will.

 

[crystalonyx]

ONLY God is GOOD.

That there are those that choose to make THEMSELVES god does NOT offer any acurate authenticity to their beliefs.

And WE are UNABLE to BE 'good'. That is ONLY able to be imagined and not manifest in our lives.

But then; 'what' IS 'good'? As subjective as any other 'idea' to those that have NO point of reference. It is a relative matter relative to the individual UNTIL one comes to a 'truthful' understanding of 'what' good IS.

Other than no god exists, there is no requirement that a god be good.

 

[Draka]

Cool, remove from your belief system what you are being saved from and then ask what you are being saved from. Next question please.

You know, this one caught my eye earlier but I just never responded. Feel compelled to now.

Why is there an assumption that any religion "saves" you from something? I can't think of anything that my religion "saves" me from. There is nothing in my religion to need "saved" from.

If being Wiccan "saves" me from anything it is being in another religion such as Christianity which does have things to be "saved" from. One thing I wish Wicca "saved" me from is proselytization. Unfortunately if there is an evangelist anywhere around we are all doomed to experience that.

 

[sojourner]

So it's like I've said all along he created sin just so he could save us from it... So he has to force you to convert Nice......

Another of my 57 reasons why Calvinism doesn't work. In God is perfect freedom. In God, we are free to love, or accept, free to choose abundant life. God is love. Love does not coerce. Love offers choice.

 

[sojourner]

I thought the historic Braveheart was a Christian.

But not a Calvinst...:flirt:

 

[sojourner]

Y'know what? Whenever I bring up the inconsistencies of the genealogy in the book of Matthew, do you know what I'm told? Scribal error... Matthew's just a man.

Whenever you point out that the four gospels have different accounts of Jesus' last words on the cross, or who found his empty tomb, etc... it's said "the story told from four different men".

So much for it being the word of God.

You'd think if it was, God would have told Matthew, Mark, Luke and John the same thing in regards to Jesus' last words, etc...

don't be so provocative. There are plenty of inconsistencies in the hebrew scriptures, as well. "So much for it being the word of God..."

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Another of my 57 reasons why Calvinism doesn't work. In God is perfect freedom. In God, we are free to love, or accept, free to choose abundant life. God is love. Love does not coerce. Love offers choice.

1 John reveals that God is love. But God is also holy and just.