Science and hell

[ElishaElijah]

No different then engaging in dianetics in context of scientology and becoming "clear" and later on, after some years and many hundreds of thousands of dollars, even Operating Thetan.

Been 33 years so far for me so keep going, a lot of times people like you get saved and come on these forums and get to talk to the same type of people as you are right now.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There has been more evidence and facts presented on the subject of the Bible,
and the resurrection.

Are you going to mention them also, or just claim that this evidence exists and expect me to just believe you?

The testimonies are the proof that both are true and bear witness to the truth and all I’m called to do.

Testimonies are claims.
Claims require evidence.
Claims aren't evidence.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Are you going to mention them also, or just claim that this evidence exists and expect me to just believe you?

You’re a well known member so you already know

 

[ElishaElijah]

Testimonies are claims.
Claims require evidence.
Claims aren't evidence.

Already said there are different types of evidence, you are focused on one type which you won’t ever get. What you will get is your face to face with God at the Judgement and can try to argue at that time.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Been 33 years so far for me so keep going, a lot of times people like you get saved and come on these forums and get to talk to the same type of people as you are right now.

I'm amazed at the size of the blinders you wear. I'm also quite impressed by your psychological defense shield.

Sadly though, both make sure that you are unable to take a critical look at your beliefs and those of other people, which only leads to it being impossible for you to learn anything that might threaten your beliefs.

This explains why you literally run away from conversations like when you tried to argue against evolution by positing a blatant, and quite absurd, strawman. And after it was pointed out to you, instead of actually stepping back and trying to understand your error, you just double down or just ignore the correction with your fingers in your ears while screaming "lalalala".

You have decided that your beliefs are the Truth (tm), capital T. And you have also decided that nothing will convince you otherwise and will reject out of hand any evidence to the contrary, just because.

You have also shown repeatedly that you don't shy away at all from holding a double standard based in blatant confirmation bias. The type of "evidence" you accept, and point out, in support of your a priori beliefs, you will not accept for competing beliefs - not even if that type of evidence is even of better quality.

The intellectual dishonesty is quite sad to watch, I must admit.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You’re a well known member so you already know

I know many people like to claim they have GREAT evidence. Most never share. And when pressed and cornered, it turns out that their "evidence" consists of hearsay, anecdotes, bear assertions or just plain fallacious reasoning.

Not once has anyone ever provided me with sound, rational, verifiable evidence for anything supernatural.

It's almost like such evidence does not exist. Almost.


Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Already said there are different types of evidence,

Yes, you keep claiming that. When are you going to actually provide it?

you are focused on one type which you won’t ever get.

The "good" type. I agree, it looks as if that will never be forthcoming.
All you have is incredibly poor evidence. The worst kind: unverifiable hearsay and anecdotes. Those aren't evidence. Those are claims.

What you will get is your face to face with God at the Judgement and can try to argue at that time.

All the evidence suggests that such a day will never come.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I'm amazed at the size of the blinders you wear. I'm also quite impressed by your psychological defense shield.

Sadly though, both make sure that you are unable to take a critical look at your beliefs and those of other people, which only leads to it being impossible for you to learn anything that might threaten your beliefs.

This explains why you literally run away from conversations like when you tried to argue against evolution by positing a blatant, and quite absurd, strawman. And after it was pointed out to you, instead of actually stepping back and trying to understand your error, you just double down or just ignore the correction with your fingers in your ears while screaming "lalalala".

You have decided that your beliefs are the Truth (tm), capital T. And you have also decided that nothing will convince you otherwise and will reject out of hand any evidence to the contrary, just because.

You have also shown repeatedly that you don't shy away at all from holding a double standard based in blatant confirmation bias. The type of "evidence" you accept, and point out, in support of your a priori beliefs, you will not accept for competing beliefs - not even if that type of evidence is even of better quality.

The intellectual dishonesty is quite sad to watch, I must admit.

All I can do is smile at wonder how much easier it would’ve been to get sober and live a successful life by believing that ameba out of the goo could’ve helped me.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I know many people like to claim they have GREAT evidence. Most never share. And when pressed and cornered, it turns out that their "evidence" consists of hearsay, anecdotes, bear assertions or just plain fallacious reasoning.

Not once has anyone ever provided me with sound, rational, verifiable evidence for anything supernatural.

It's almost like such evidence does not exist. Almost.


Feel free to demonstrate otherwise.

What instruments do you have to test that, the supernatural?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What instruments do you have to test that, the supernatural?

First I'll need to know what your supposed evidence is, before I can see how that evidence can be tested (if it is even testable in the first place - my guess is that it won't)

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

All I can do is smile at wonder how much easier it would’ve been to get sober and live a successful life by believing that ameba out of the goo could’ve helped me.

And the strawmanning just continues.
Doubling down, just like I said in the very post you are replying to.

Good job confirming what I said.

If I didn't know any better, I'ld think you were a Poe.

 

[ElishaElijah]

First I'll need to know what your supposed evidence is, before I can see how that evidence can be tested (if it is even testable in the first place - my guess is that it won't)

In other words, you don’t have any way of testing and will dismiss everything.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And the strawmanning just continues.
Doubling down, just like I said in the very post you are replying to.

Good job confirming what I said.

If I didn't know any better, I'ld think you were a Poe.

How else would you put it? I tried every avenue to get clean and sober and make sense out of life and find answers. You’re saying if I only had more knowledge of evolution and the origins of life like your views I would’ve gotten sober and found life satisfying and fulfilling. But what happened is I called out to God and He answered me, delivered me and blessed my life for the last 33 years when my life before that was a disaster.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In other words, you don’t have any way of testing and will dismiss everything.

No, that's not even close to what I said.

I said that you first need to present what evidence you have before one can answer the question of how that evidence can be tested. As how something is tested, depends kind of heavily on what it is that is being tested.


For example, if you ask me how I would test your "secret evidence" to support some hypothesis in a murder case... It would make little sense for me to answer "dna testing", if your secret evidence actually consists of tracking a phone's gps chip.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How else would you put it? I tried every avenue to get clean and sober and make sense out of life and find answers. You’re saying if I only had more knowledge of evolution and the origins of life like your views I would’ve gotten sober and found life satisfying and fulfilling. But what happened is I called out to God and He answered me, delivered me and blessed my life for the last 33 years when my life before that was a disaster.

I never said anything whatsoever about any supposed connection between evolution and getting sober, because those things literally have nothing whatsoever to do with eachother.

The truth of evolution does not depend on how your beliefs affect your mental problems.
You couldn't be drifting into more irrelevant matters if you tried.


Having said that, you finding psychological motivation in religion to quit drinking, does not, in any way, shape or form, count as evidence that the religion and what it claims are accurate.


Once again, I have to repeat myself:
Please learn what is and isn't evidence.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, that's not even close to what I said.

I said that you first need to present what evidence you have before one can answer the question of how that evidence can be tested. As how something is tested, depends kind of heavily on what it is that is being tested.


For example, if you ask me how I would test your "secret evidence" to support some hypothesis in a murder case... It would make little sense for me to answer "dna testing", if your secret evidence actually consists of tracking a phone's gps chip.

You have no way to test the supernatural and will dismiss everything. You don’t have the proper test or access to it. Would like to hear your counsel to a drug addict and alcoholic who cannot stop and want to. Just say no? I do have the answer and path because I travelled and know what the solution is.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I never said anything whatsoever about any supposed connection between evolution and getting sober, because those things literally have nothing whatsoever to do with eachother.

The truth of evolution does not depend on how your beliefs affect your mental problems.
You couldn't be drifting into more irrelevant matters if you tried.


Having said that, you finding psychological motivation in religion to quit drinking, does not, in any way, shape or form, count as evidence that the religion and what it claims are accurate.


Once again, I have to repeat myself:
Please learn what is and isn't evidence.

I told you God showed up and delivered me and it’s been 33 years and know God is real and have a relationship with Him and you don’t believe me and that’s fine but let me repeat to you again. You have no idea what you’re talking about concerning spiritual matters.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You have no way to test the supernatural

That would depend entirely on what the supernatural actually is. You'ld have to define it in such a way that it can be distinguished from things that don't exist.

In other words, you first have to define it in a testable way, for the question of how to test it to even make sense.

and will dismiss everything

Sure, I will dismiss any claim that says that X exists, if X is actually indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist.

I'ld be irrational not to.
You do it too, you know... You do this for all claims, except when it concerns your religion.
That's the double standard you hold, as I already pointed out to you.

This is why you won't believe me when I tell you that invisible rocks are blocking your way on the road. You won't slam your breaks. You won't even change lanes. Instead, you'll just look at me funny. And rightfully so.

But when somebody says roughly the same about an invisible spirit which pertains to your religion, then all of a sudden you doubt it a lot less, even though the exact same type of evidence exists for it as does for the invisible rocks.

You don’t have the proper test or access to it.

Only because believers define it in an untestable way.
It's kind of pretty intellectually dishonest to try and fault me for not having a way to test the untestable.

Would like to hear your counsel to a drug addict and alcoholic who cannot stop and want to.

Why? How would that be relevant to the present discussion?

The (not really) funny part, is that I actually had a drug problem in the past and gotten over it and actually have been part of initiatives where I actually did volunteer to counsel drug addicts and help them overcome it. Successfully. I didn't need a bible to do it. Or any beliefs in anything "magical" or "supernatural" or whatever.

Not that it matters though, because reality doesn't depend on your emotional / psychological / mental problems with whatever.

You can add "emotional appeal" to your already absurdly long list of "logical fallacies".

Just say no? I do have the answer and path because I travelled and know what the solution is.

I accept that you believe that you do.
But clearly, you are incorrect.

Being or becoming a christian (or religious in general) is demonstrably not at all required to overcome psychological problems, addictions, what-have-you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I told you God showed up and delivered me and it’s been 33 years and know God is real and have a relationship with Him and you don’t believe me and that’s fine but let me repeat to you again. You have no idea what you’re talking about concerning spiritual matters.

Tell it to the guy who met Krishna last night.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Tell it to the guy who met Krishna last night.

Don’t know that guy, but I do have the ability to test if that