Science and hell

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have proof because God gave me His Spirit, when someone gives you something that’s evidence not wishful thinking.

If you had proof, then you would be able to share it.
But all you have are beliefs.

He changed my whole life. If you want to continue saying it’s just belief then the same for you. You don’t really exist, you just believe you do.

That makes zero sense.
Anyone in my proximity can establish and confirm my existence in just objective a manner as the existence of the cup of coffee I'm currently drinking from.

Your "belief" of this "god" having "given" you information however, is indistinguishable from the "information" that the schizofrenic "receives" from the voices in his head.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What year was is that man transitioned to human from another species?

Only someone who's completely oblivious to how evolution actually works, would ask such a question.
Your question is wrong as it makes false assumptions, like evolution leads to overnight speciation. As if one day a member of species X gives birth to a member of species Y.

Evolution is a gradual process and it works through populations, not through individuals.
Speciation is not an overnight event.

Your question has no answer, because the question itself is invalid.
It's like asking "what does purple taste like?"

Surely you must have some kind of proof?

No, I don't have proof or evidence to support a strawman version of evolution.

Some form of writing perhaps, or was it some jawbone that was found and you used your imagination to make something.

Common ancestry of species is a genetic fact.

Read up on phylogenetic trees and how they are generated.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Only someone who's completely oblivious to how evolution actually works, would ask such a question.
Your question is wrong as it makes false assumptions, like evolution leads to overnight speciation. As if one day a member of species X gives birth to a member of species Y.

Evolution is a gradual process and it works through populations, not through individuals.
Speciation is not an overnight event.

Your question has no answer, because the question itself is invalid.
It's like asking "what does purple taste like?"



No, I don't have proof or evidence to support a strawman version of evolution.






Common ancestry of species is a genetic fact.

Read up on phylogenetic trees and how they are generated.

I know you don’t have an answer because it’s some made up and contrived idea. You will never prove it because we were created by God in a day.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If you had proof, then you would be able to share it.
But all you have are beliefs.



That makes zero sense.
Anyone in my proximity can establish and confirm my existence in just objective a manner as the existence of the cup of coffee I'm currently drinking from.

Your "belief" of this "god" having "given" you information however, is indistinguishable from the "information" that the schizofrenic "receives" from the voices in his head.

I’m here, I’m changed, I know where I’m going, all Creation declares the Glory of God. By saying schizophrenic, I will stay with my original assessment of people that share your views. Spiritually dead and unable to discern spiritual things. Will end our conversation with that and say thank-you for the conversation.
By the way, you wouldn’t have any knowledge of what God has done in my life because we’ve never met in person, all my family and friends that have been part of my life do see the change and have this proof, none of them deny that God has changed me, (not one).

 

[KerimF]

That god does exist, it’s fallen man. Although he falls short and is more depraved than you describe here.

But I am afraid that the world cannot run properly (the way it is made) without fallen men, in every period of time. Some humans should be created to serve the world as powerful selfish masters or obedient selfish followers (obedient as long they are spoiled by their masters). It is not a secret that nations (besides the well-known formal religious systems), couldn't exist if all humans are created like I am, not interested to play the master on anyone, the spoiled follower of any master or rebel against any evil.

Naturally, the obedient followers who are spoiled by powerful masters also look as fallen men because, when necessary (when asked), they have to destroy, burn, steal and kill to protect the flags of their masters.

The following point is likely hard to be understood:
While the population of the human race is almost 0% of all other living beings, if this relatively tiny number of humans becomes zero (no humans at all), life on earth would have no meaning as it has now.
Also, while the number of the pre-programmed humans (who have no choice but following their instincts) around the world exceeds largely the number of the free humans (who are free to oppose their instincts of survival), if the latter ones are removed completely, the entire world be just a big wild jungle in which an intelligent species is added.

As non-human beings cannot perceive how the nature of humans is different from theirs, also the pre-programmed humans cannot even imagine how the nature of free humans could be different from theirs.

One of the natural consequences of this fact, unknown to most people, is the non-stop debating!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I’m here, I’m changed, I know where I’m going, all Creation declares the Glory of God.

Yes, you've said that already. Repeating your claims and causal assertions won't make them any more credible.

By saying schizophrenic, I will stay with my original assessment of people that share your views. Spiritually dead and unable to discern spiritual things.

You don't seem to be understanding.
You making claims does nothing to support them. You are giving me zero reason to believe you.

By the way, you wouldn’t have any knowledge of what God has done in my life because we’ve never met in person

Meeting you in person wouldn't make a difference either. Your claims would remain unsupported.

, all my family and friends that have been part of my life do see the change and have this proof,

You changing your life through a religion, is not evidence that the religion and its claims are accurate.
You don't seem to be aware of what "evidence" actually is.

none of them deny that God has changed me, (not one).

Because they all believe like you do. It's called confirmation bias.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I know you don’t have an answer because it’s some made up and contrived idea. You will never prove it because we were created by God in a day.

I have just informed you that your question assumes a strawman version of evolution.

Why do you ignore that?
What do you hope to accomplish by arguing a strawman?

You're being intellectually dishonest.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I have just informed you that your question assumes a strawman version of evolution.

Why do you ignore that?
What do you hope to accomplish by arguing a strawman?

You're being intellectually dishonest.

No matter, think what you like, conversation was done and over anyway.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No matter, think what you like, conversation was done and over anyway.

Classic case of pigeon chess.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yes, you've said that already. Repeating your claims and causal assertions won't make them any more credible.



You don't seem to be understanding.
You making claims does nothing to support them. You are giving me zero reason to believe you.




Meeting you in person wouldn't make a difference either. Your claims would remain unsupported.



You changing your life through a religion, is not evidence that the religion and its claims are accurate.
You don't seem to be aware of what "evidence" actually is.



Because they all believe like you do. It's called confirmation bias.

Whatever you want to believe, got nothing to prove to you really. You won’t understand until you experience God for yourself.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Whatever you want to believe, got nothing to prove to you really. You won’t understand until you experience God for yourself.

No, "whatever you want to believe" is what you do.

I don't believe "whatever I want". I believe that which is sufficiently supported by sound evidence.

But you are right, this isn't going anywhere now.

So bye bye

 

[ElishaElijah]

No, "whatever you want to believe" is what you do.

I don't believe "whatever I want". I believe that which is sufficiently supported by sound evidence.

But you are right, this isn't going anywhere now.

So bye bye

By the way evidence is a broad term and there are different kinds of evidence so my testimony of how God changed my life and that many other people bear witness to that fact is considered evidence.

 

[KerimF]

I never try convincing anyone about something, because a mature person cannot even change his own priorities in life. At best, one may select another path which lets him achieve them better.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

By the way evidence is a broad term and there are different kinds of evidence so my testimony of how God changed my life and that many other people bear witness to that fact is considered evidence.

Yes, the least trustworthy type of "evidence": people's word.

I'm a software engineer. I also give support for the products we put out. If I would believe people's "testimony" about how whatever software bug is manifesting or whatever problem they may have, then +80% of issues would never get fixed.

Because more often then not, people's intuitive conclusions of their seemingly out-of-the-ordinary experiences, are wrong.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yes, the least trustworthy type of "evidence": people's word.

I'm a software engineer. I also give support for the products we put out. If I would believe people's "testimony" about how whatever software bug is manifesting or whatever problem they may have, then +80% of issues would never get fixed.

Because more often then not, people's intuitive conclusions of their seemingly out-of-the-ordinary experiences, are wrong.

False equivalence

 

[McBell]

False equivalence

you made the claim.
Now show it is true

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

False equivalence

No. Exact same thing. It's "testimony". People's "interpretation" of what they think happened.
And in many cases, actually what people have heared other people say about even other people's "interpreation" of what they think happened.

Hearsay, anecdotes and beliefs.
That's all you have and are sharing.

If this is good enough for you to believe a claim, then you should also believe in Voodoo, sasquatch, the loch ness monster, alien abduction, sceance readers, crystal healings, scientology, etc.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No. Exact same thing. It's "testimony". People's "interpretation" of what they think happened.

Being saved and born again is supernatural but not out of the ordinary, it’s common and been happening since the first Pentecost. You’re trying to comprehend and understand using the wrong program.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Being saved and born again is ...

No different then engaging in dianetics in context of scientology and becoming "clear" and later on, after some years and many hundreds of thousands of dollars, even Operating Thetan.

supernatural but not out of the ordinary

The "supernatural" is about as out-of-the-ordinary as it gets.
So much so that it is indistinguishable from magic and fantasy.

, it’s common and been happening since the first Pentecost.

The only common thing, is people inventing and holding superstitious beliefs.
And as we have seen earlier: just because people believe something, does not count as evidence that the beliefs are correct. Many people believing something, isn't evidence either that the beliefs are correct.

Learn what is and isn't proper evidence.

You’re trying to comprehend and understand using the wrong program.

I use the program of verifiable evidence, aka rational reasoning.
You use the program of faith, aka gullibility.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No different then engaging in dianetics in context of scientology and becoming "clear" and later on, after some years and many hundreds of thousands of dollars, even Operating Thetan.



The "supernatural" is about as out-of-the-ordinary as it gets.
So much so that it is indistinguishable from magic and fantasy.



The only common thing, is people inventing and holding superstitious beliefs.
And as we have seen earlier: just because people believe something, does not count as evidence that the beliefs are correct. Many people believing something, isn't evidence either that the beliefs are correct.

Learn what is and isn't proper evidence.



I use the program of verifiable evidence, aka rational reasoning.
You use the program of faith, aka gullibility.

There has been more evidence and facts presented on the subject of the Bible,
and the resurrection. The testimonies are the proof that both are true and bear witness to the truth and all I’m called to do.