Science and hell

[Aupmanyav]

Let us think together (if you don't mind) about the 4th answer.

The material world doesn't need to exist eternally for those who will deserve (a) or (b). But, from this perceptive, we can also see the material world as a temporary firm which was built by perfect spiritual entities to produce more perfect spiritual beings by allowing imperfect material beings (humans) to become perfect spiritual beings.

For (c), the material world (universe) is eternal in which all humans will end up being enlightened. I guess, since the number of humans, the revived ones from previous lives and the new ones, will be too big (going to infinity with time), humans will have to find out the ability to move from Earth and live on other planets as well. But this number can have an upper limit if the enlightened humans (who will reach perfection) are not supposed to breed anymore.

Sure.
You see it that way, I don't. I do not believe in ANY spiritual entity. I belong to the 'C' category which is atheist.
For 'C', it is not essential for the universe to be eternal. It can and might have arisen from nothing and could go back to non-existence in flash of an eye (for all we know - Supernovas, Black holes).
Also for category 'C', it is not essential that every one will be enlightened in the end. Most (99.99%) will die in ignorance.
Category 'C' does not believe in rebirth, reincarnation. Even the enlightened live only once. And when one dies, nothing remains of him/her except dust.
For example, Buddha - nothing remains of him except ashes which were interred in eight memorials (Stupas).

Supernova, Black hole (Gravitational lensing), Piprahwa Buddha Stupa (500 BCE). There are enough cataclysmic events in the universe.

 

[KerimF]

Anthropic means “relating to human beings or their existence.” Principle means “law.” The Anthropic Principle is the Law of Human Existence. It is well known that our existence in this universe depends on numerous cosmological constants and parameters whose numerical values must fall within a very narrow range of values. If even a single variable were off, even slightly, we would not exist. The extreme improbability that so many variables would align so auspiciously in our favor merely by chance has led some scientists and philosophers to propose instead that it was God who providentially engineered the universe to suit our specific needs. This is the Anthropic Principle: that the universe appears to have been fine-tuned for our existence.

And what is left to every human to know is the purpose for which he was brought into this temporary realm, we call life. We like it or not, such knowledge is strictly a personal one who accepts to believe, based on reason or faith, a certain purpose or no purpose.

 

[KerimF]

Sure.
You see it that way, I don't. I do not believe in ANY spiritual entity. I belong to the 'C' category which is atheist.
For 'C', it is not essential for the universe to be eternal. It can and might have arisen from nothing and could go back to non-existence in flash of an eye (for all we know - Supernovas, Black holes).
Also for category 'C', it is not essential that every one will be enlightened in the end. Most (99.99%) will die in ignorance.
Category 'C' does not believe in rebirth, reincarnation. Even the enlightened live only once. And when one dies, nothing remains of him/her except dust.
For example, Buddha - nothing remains of him except ashes which were interred in eight memorials (Stupas).
There are enough cataclysmic events in the universe.

If I understood you well, to you, the purpose for being brought into this life is temporary as I explained how this could be possible in:
Hell versus Everlasting Fire | Religious Forums

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I already explained faith and you will have to go back because by your comments appears you didn’t understand what I was saying

I understand very well what "faith" is. It's belief without evidence.
You don't need "faith" when you have evidence.

My faith is not blind faith based on nothing

Whatever it's based on, it's not based on rational evidence.
You would have no need for "faith" if it was.

Anecdotes, ancients unverifiable extra-ordinary claims, fuzzy feelings... none of these are rational evidence.
None of these are pathways to truth.

Faith is not a pathway to truth. Faith is gullibility.

My birth was known to God

Yet another faith based claim which you can not support with rational evidence, not even if your life depended on it. It is just what you "believe" and that's it.

and so was yours so none of this is by chance.

All the facts of reality scream otherwise'.

God knows everything from beginning to end. He already knows the free will decisions we will make.

And the evidenceless, baseless, faith claims just continue.


PS: this last statement of yours, directly contradicts the concept of freewill. If all decisions can be known beforehand, then that means that all of reality, including your thoughts and actions and decisions, are pre-determined. Which throws free will out the window.

You should stop. The hole you're digging for yourself in this conversation is getting so deep that you're not going to be able to get out of it anymore.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I see evidence of God through everything He has created.

And yet, you can demonstrate none of it.
Also, assumed conclusion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If even a single variable were off, even slightly, we would not exist.

This is not true.

The extreme improbability that so many variables would align so auspiciously in our favor merely by chance has led some scientists and philosophers to propose instead that it was God who providentially engineered the universe to suit our specific needs.

And the people who proposed such, used the logical fallacy known as "argument from ignorance" when they did.

This is the Anthropic Principle: that the universe appears to have been fine-tuned for our existence.

No, that's not the anthropic principle.

You should google it and read up.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Did you ever stop and think that it is not the universe that is fine tuned for us but is instead us fine tuned for the universe?

It seems like he never stopped and thought. About anything. Period.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is not true.




And the people who proposed such, used the logical fallacy known as "argument from ignorance" when they did.



No, that's not the anthropic principle.

You should google it and read up.

I did and nothing you’ve said in the conversation for 2 Days has amounted to anything except you don’t have reading comprehension and you’re ignorant of the facts of science and history.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I did and nothing you’ve said in the conversation for 2 Days has amounted to anything

That's because you read them like this:

except you don’t have reading comprehension and you’re ignorant of the facts of science and history.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's because you read them like this:

View attachment 50805







View attachment 50806

And with Spiritual matters...you’re clueless

 

[ElishaElijah]

That's because you read them like this:

Earth’s place in the solar system. If we were much further from the sun, our planet’s water would freeze. If we were much closer, it would boil. This is just one of numerous examples of how our privileged place in the solar system allows for life on Earth.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It seems like he never stopped and thought. About anything. Period.

If humans were fine tuned to Earth’s environment then humans could be fine tuned to other planets as well. We don’t see that.

 

[KerimF]

A one-being God who created the universe in order to be pleased by humans thru their worship/praise rituals and their obedience of his law... cannot exist in my reality.
Does this mean I am an atheist? Of course not, and I can't be a conventional theist as well.
The reason is simple.
Such an image of a powerful selfish heavenly king has no sign at all in the deep nature of which I am made.
And it happens that Jesus only revealed an image of God that reflects my deep nature.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And with Spiritual matters...you’re clueless

Because you can't even demonstrate that there is such a thing to begin with.

I'm just as clueless concerning the undetectable pink graviton pixies who regulate gravity, for the same reason.
You're clueless too. All you have are mere beliefs.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Earth’s place in the solar system. If we were much further from the sun, our planet’s water would freeze. If we were much closer, it would boil.

So? Do you find it surprising that we live on a planet which can actually support life?

This is just one of numerous examples of how our privileged place in the solar system allows for life on Earth.

Astronomers haven't even scratched the surface of the milky way in their exploration and already they have found dozens, hundreds, of rocky planets that orbit their sun in the goldilocks zone. It's not exactly rare.

There are trillions of planets out there. All of them orbit their star at some distance. It's inevitable that many, MANY of those trillions are going to be orbiting their star at a distance that makes their surface temperature such that it falls within the range that liquid water can exist.

Not sure why you find this so remarkable. Even less why you think it requires a "special" explanation.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If humans were fine tuned to Earth’s environment then humans could be fine tuned to other planets as well. We don’t see that.

Because we evolved on earth and continue to evolve on earth, Zweistein.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Because you can't even demonstrate that there is such a thing to begin with.

I'm just as clueless concerning the undetectable pink graviton pixies who regulate gravity, for the same reason.
You're clueless too. All you have are mere beliefs.

I have proof because God gave me His Spirit, when someone gives you something that’s evidence not wishful thinking. He changed my whole life. If you want to continue saying it’s just belief then the same for you. You don’t really exist, you just believe you do.

 

[ElishaElijah]

A one-being God who created the universe in order to be pleased by humans thru their worship/praise rituals and their obedience of his law... cannot exist in my reality.
Does this mean I am an atheist? Of course not, and I can't be a conventional theist as well.
The reason is simple.
Such an image of a powerful selfish heavenly king has no sign at all in the deep nature of which I am made.
And it happens that Jesus only revealed an image of God that reflects my deep nature.

That god does exist, it’s fallen man. Although he falls short and is more depraved than you describe here.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So? Do you find it surprising that we live on a planet which can actually support life?





Astronomers haven't even scratched the surface of the milky way in their exploration and already they have found dozens, hundreds, of rocky planets that orbit their sun in the goldilocks zone. It's not exactly rare.

There are trillions of planets out there. All of them orbit their star at some distance. It's inevitable that many, MANY of those trillions are going to be orbiting their star at a distance that makes their surface temperature such that it falls within the range that liquid water can exist.

Not sure why you find this so remarkable. Even less why you think it requires a "special" explanation.

And yet no human life found except here on Earth, and you won’t find any because Jesus Christ only has one Bride.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Because we evolved on earth and continue to evolve on earth, Zweistein.

View attachment 50874

What year was is that man transitioned to human from another species? Surely you must have some kind of proof? Some form of writing perhaps, or was it some jawbone that was found and you used your imagination to make something.