Science can say nothing about existence of God

[Rick O'Shez]

Explain to me again how you and other atheists experience a state of mind free from personality? Btw, the reality represented by God and Nirvana is the same....

The experience of non-conceptual mind is nothing to do with "God", except in your imagination. The experience of non-duality is nothing to do with "God", except in your imagination.

Nirvana and God are not the same. Buddhism is not theism.

 

[Unification]

It is not that nothing happens when the heart, soul, mind, and body is united in the non-conceptual love of God, it is just that is it nothing that is visible, nothing that is audible and nothing that is conceptual ....1 Corinthians 2:9 "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him-- The pure oil metaphor of scripture represents absolute submission to God....which results in the wedding of the lover and the beloved....the union...non-duality...

I understand what you're saying and I agree.

I also can see many can have a still mind through meditation and not experience what you said above.

There is also literally an oil that the human body secretes within. If the mind and body aren't pure, it will not secrete the pure oil.

I like this from the gospel of Philip:

"The chrism is superior to baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not because of the word "baptism". And it is because of the chrism that "the Christ" has his name."

"The Christ or Chrism" is what is referred to as that organic and pure oil secreted within the human body.

The problem with most sects are that they don't experience that within because they see that oil exoterically and new-agey for outward shows and rituals. They use the church buildings to perform their exoteric shows rather than understand that their human body is the church and that the oil is organic and produced within the human body.

One is external idolatry and one is going within.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

That is merely your opinion/belief, is it not? What makes it more valid than SpinyNorman's? I expect you to respond with it being "the truth", but, again, that would merely be another claim/opinion, would it not?

Don't you read, or don't you comprehend as Dr Evil apparently is not capable...opinions and beliefs are held by the personality..the 'I', the ego....you in other words...in the state of mind free from thought...the non-conceptual state...there is no 'I' present...in it non-dual...now I nor any one else who has realized this state can describe it...for we were no present during the non-conceptual period.. Now the I was present as it 'merged' with the oneness, and 'reemerged' after...and this state can be described...such as awesome, blissful, fearful, etc... But these are conceptual descriptions experienced by the 'I', and this is far from non-duality... Now all you can do as an agnostic is to believe I and others who explain what non-duality is and is not....could or could not correct...and to remain skeptical until you realize it yourself...for you will never in all eternity realize it with the ego mind, or receive it as a gift from another more evolved soul...there is no other way...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The experience of non-conceptual mind is nothing to do with "God", except in your imagination. The experience of non-duality is nothing to do with "God", except in your imagination.

Nirvana and God are not the same. Buddhism is not theism.

How as an atheist do you know what the reality represented by the concept of God is to know it is not the same as Nirvana...what is the reality represented by the concept of God? And for that matter...I did not also know that you had realized the reality represented by the concept of Nirvana....please explain?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I understand what you're saying and I agree.

I also can see many can have a still mind through meditation and not experience what you said above.

There is also literally an oil that the human body secretes within. If the mind and body aren't pure, it will not secrete the pure oil.

I like this from the gospel of Philip:

"The chrism is superior to baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not because of the word "baptism". And it is because of the chrism that "the Christ" has his name."

"The Christ or Chrism" is what is referred to as that organic and pure oil secreted within the human body.

The problem with most sects are that they don't experience that within because they see that oil exoterically and new-agey for outward shows and rituals. They use the church buildings to perform their exoteric shows rather than understand that their human body is the church and that the oil is organic and produced within the human body.

One is external idolatry and one is going within.

Well I had not heard of the actual oil you refer to... And it is true that many who realize the still mind state do not go on to realize permanent union..and the reason is as has been discussed on these forums before...that the 'I' imagines it was itself that was the oneness....and thus follows periods of delusion and self grandeur...but if the heart remains true...the error is corrected....

 

[McBell]

Well I had not heard of the actual oil you refer to...

:biglaugh:
Never heard of it?
Hells bells, you been spilling it all over this thread for pages....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

:biglaugh:
Never heard of it?
Hells bells, you been spilling it all over this thread for pages....

So then show me then...quote my words...that should be easy?

 

[Unification]

Well I had not heard of the actual oil you refer to... And it is true that many who realize the still mind state do not go on to realize permanent union..and the reason is as has been discussed on these forums before...that the 'I' imagines it was itself that was the oneness....and thus follows periods of delusion and self grandeur...but if the heart remains true...the error is corrected....

Indeed, a pure mind and a pure heart will understand and know. It takes a pure heart and mind to understand and know pure consciousness.

I suppose I love to biologically know my inner workings along with knowing my nature.

 

[McBell]

So then show me then...quote my words...that should be easy?

rotflmao

Your inability to understand has proven most comical.

Now I sit and wait for you to start calling me names.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

rotflmao

Your inability to understand has proven most comical.

Now I sit and wait for you to start calling me names.

Ok then..I admit I am not aware of having commented on a physical oil in the body on this thread before the post you reference...taken literally or metaphorically...so please quote my exact words that either use the word oil or represent physical oil in the metaphorical sense?

If you can not do so, I can only imagine you were possessed by your faith and feelings that I had done so -- to imagine something is real simply because you wish it were. Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self.

 

[Ouroboros]

The connection between meditative states and "God" is only in your mind.

But there is no mind. It's only an illusion emerging from the physical world, and as such it doesn't exist and there's no "in the mind" to talk about. Or... does it exist somehow after all?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

But there is no mind. It's only an illusion emerging from the physical world, and as such it doesn't exist and there's no "in the mind" to talk about. Or... does it exist somehow after all?

Of course there is mind....that its content may be seen as relatively illusionary by some does not mean that the mind itself does not exist....the reality represented by the concept 'mind' is that it is the seat of reason and the creator of thoughts, memories, etc.. If there is reasoning, regardless of its flaws or not...it is understood to be mind. I suspect you mean something along the lines of what I'm saying...?.

 

[Sapiens]

No mind, only brain.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No mind, only brain.

What...you believe there is no such thing as mind...?

 

[Thief]

I decided to get in some altered states sooner rather than later, just in case.

laugh now......but I was serious....
I don't believe our spirits perish in an instant.

some people who work in life resuscitation now lean to the notion we continue
a LOT longer than a few minutes after that last heart beat.

what if you go on.....past your funeral?

 

[Ouroboros]

Of course there is mind....

Of course there is.

that its content may be seen as relatively illusionary by some does not mean that the mind itself does not exist....the reality represented by the concept 'mind' is that it is the seat of reason and the creator of thoughts, memories, etc.. If there is reasoning, regardless of its flaws or not...it is understood to be mind. I suspect you mean something along the lines of what I'm saying...?.

My point is that when Spiny says, "The connection between meditative states and "God" is only in your mind" it conflicts with the physicalist's idea of a mind being just an illusion or emergence of the physical. There's no "in" for a mind that doesn't exist.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Of course there is.


My point is that when Spiny says, "The connection between meditative states and "God" is only in your mind" it conflicts with the physicalist's idea of a mind being just an illusion or emergence of the physical. There's no "in" for a mind that doesn't exist.

Got you...thank you..

 

[psychoslice]

Science cannot say anything about the unicorn, but that doesn't mean the unicorn exist lol.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

How as an atheist do you know what the reality represented by the concept of God is to know it is not the same as Nirvana...what is the reality represented by the concept of God? And for that matter...I did not also know that you had realized the reality represented by the concept of Nirvana....please explain?

I am tired of you pretending that Buddhist enlightenment is anything to do with "God". It most definitely isn't.

Believe what you like, but don't try to drag everyone else into your fantasy. It just looks arrogant and patronising.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

what if you go on.....past your funeral?

Impossible to plan for. How about crossing that bridge if you ever come to it?