Science can say nothing about existence of God

[Rick O'Shez]

So...because you do not understand what I'm saying to you....your comeback is to say that I do not know what I am saying to you... Hmmm....just still your mind and you will understand what was said to you....if you can't...forget it, it is not possible...

Sure, you are the only one who understands, and you're always misunderstood. Cue violins.

Meanwhile read my response in post #598 and read the sutta I referenced. You might actually learn something.

 

[LuisDantas]

@ben d

Newsflash: you have no religious authority over others. And I am pretty sure you are no paranormal, nor particularly good insight, either.

You should have guessed that by the time you started to use God as a piece.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There are no exceptions....the concept of 'God' is no different from the concept of a 'druggie'....they are concepts....it is the reality represented by those concepts that is different... Reality is obscured by the mind's conceptualized interpretation of the meaning...

Reality is obscured further by all those additional conceivings like "God", "Reality", "Cosmic Consciousness". Get rid of them! It's like you want to see the clear light of day and yet you keep darkening the tint on your glasses.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sure, you are the only one who understands, and you're always misunderstood. Cue violins.

Meanwhile read my response in post #598 and read the sutta I referenced. You might actually learn something.

I agree with that conveyed in the Sutta...ultimate reality will not be found in conceptualization... What is your conceptual understanding?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

@ben d

Newsflash: you have no religious authority over others. And I am pretty sure you are no paranormal, nor particularly good insight, either.

You should have guessed that by the time you started to use God as a piece.

And your point of this post is?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I agree with that conveyed in the Sutta...ultimate reality will not be found in conceptualization... What is your conceptual understanding?

The sutta also explains that conceiving is done in relation to the self. That is why holding a load of beliefs about stuff "out there" ( "God", "Reality", "Cosmic Consciousness" ) makes the problem worse. Such beliefs only reinforce self-view and make it more difficult to "directly know".

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Reality is obscured further by all those additional conceivings like "God", "Reality", "Cosmic Consciousness". Get rid of them! It's like you want to see the clear light of day and yet you keep darkening the tint on your glasses.

Forget about your preferences of some concepts over others....go beyond all of them....all the concepts in the universe are the same...they are not real except as concepts...and if you live by them, you will will die by them!!!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Forget about your preferences of some concepts over others....go beyond all of them....all the concepts in the universe are the same...they are not real except as concepts...and if you live by them, you will will die by them!!!

It's not about preference, it's about recognising that additional concepts like "God", "Reality" and "Cosmic Consciousness" exacerbate the problem by reinforcing self-view. If you can let go of those you will have much better chance of directly knowing.

As the sutta says:
“Bhikkhus, the Tathāgata, too, accomplished and fully enlightened, directly knows earth as earth. Having directly known earth as earth, he does not conceive himself as earth, he does not conceive himself in earth, he does not conceive himself apart from earth, he does not conceive earth to be ‘mine,’ he does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has fully understood it to the end, I say."

 

[Ben Dhyan]

''out there

The sutta also explains that conceiving is done in relation to the self. That is why holding a load of beliefs about stuff "out there" ( "God", "Reality", "Cosmic Consciousness" ) makes the problem worse - such beliefs only reinforce self-view.

Ok...slow down.....I have no understanding of the meaning you give to the concepts you are using in this post... Let us proceed methodically....please explain what meaning you give to the concepts you used...'belief'..'self'.....'God'...'out there'...'Cosmic Consciousness'?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It's not about preference, it's about recognising that additional concepts like "God", "Reality" and "Cosmic Consciousness" exacerbate the problem by reinforcing self-view. If you can let go of those you will have much better chance of directly knowing.

As the sutta says:
“Bhikkhus, the Tathāgata, too, accomplished and fully enlightened, directly knows earth as earth. Having directly known earth as earth, he does not conceive himself as earth, he does not conceive himself in earth, he does not conceive himself apart from earth, he does not conceive earth to be ‘mine,’ he does not delight in earth. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has fully understood it to the end, I say."

The Sutta is correct.....where does it mention 'God' or 'Cosmic Consciousness'? It doesn't..and you wonder why you are not able to understand the Sutta you quoted is something I understand and you do not...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I feel bad for the Buddhists. Lol.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

''out thereOk...slow down.....I have no understanding of the meaning you give to the concepts you are using in this post... Let us proceed methodically....please explain what meaning you give to the concepts you used...'belief'..'self'.....'God'...'out there'...'Cosmic Consciousness'?

I think you know exactly what I mean. Give it some time to sink in.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I feel bad for the Buddhists. Lol.

Yeah. The new-agers are the worst, just making stuff up as they go along.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Sutta is correct.....where does it mention 'God' or 'Cosmic Consciousness'? It doesn't..and you wonder why you are not able to understand the Sutta you quoted is something I understand and you do not...

I don't think you have any idea what the sutta means. Of course the sutta doesn't mention "God" or "Cosmic Consciousness", but that's the whole point, such notions are irrelevant to Buddhist realisation, not only irrelevant but counter-productive, as I've explained.

But woolly syncretists like yourself keep insisting that it's all one, that Nirvana is the same as "God" and "Cosmic Consciousness", blah blah. It's all new-age cliche and nonsense. Like another contributor here I think you have become so attached to your idiosyncratic interpretation that you can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think you know exactly what I mean. Give it some time to sink in.

I can't discuss something on the basis of what you think I know what you mean...only on what I actually I know....and I am waiting to find out from you...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I don't think you have any idea what the sutta means. Of course the sutta doesn't mention "God" or "Cosmic Consciousness", but that's the whole point, such notions are irrelevant to Buddhist realisation, not only irrelevant but counter-productive, as I've explained.

But woolly syncretists like yourself keep insisting that it's all one, that Nirvana is the same as "God" and "Cosmic Consciousness", blah blah. It's all new-age cliche and nonsense. Like another contributor here I think you have become so attached to your idiosyncratic interpretation that you can't see the wood for the trees.

All concepts are only relevant if both parties in a discussion have some degree of common understanding as to the meaning....so let us methodically work through the list of words I use and see what you understand the reality is for which they stand...compared to my understanding...fair?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I can't discuss something on the basis of what you think I know what you mean...only on what I actually I know....and I am waiting to find out from you...

If you're interesting in getting a better understanding of Buddhist teachings then you need to spend some more time with the texts and put aside the preconceptions you have, at least temporarily. Here are some suggestions:
Heart Sutra: http://plumvillage.org/news/thich-nhat-hanh-new-heart-sutra-translation/
Phena Sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.095.than.html
MN1: https://suttacentral.net/en/mn1
I would recommend focussing on source material like this. There is a lot of stuff on the internet but much of it is of questionable value because it is just somebody's else's opinion or interpretation, in some cases interpretations of interpretations, second-hand speculation. Obviously an intellectual understand of such texts is only the first stage, so don't confuse that with realising the truths that they convey, that requires practice.

If you're not interested that's fine, but if you want to understand properly you have further work to do.

 

[Thief]

I mean, personal experience can be validated by the experience of others. But, beyond experience in general, what else do we have to go on?

just sit and think about it
if you can't form a line of thought leading to probability.....
you are stuck as you are.....stagnant.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

you are stuck as you are.....stagnant.

To me it's a belief in "God" which is stagnant, particularly when it becomes an unchallenged assumption.

 

[Thief]

To me it's a belief in "God" which is stagnant, particularly when it becomes an unchallenged assumption.

it's never unchallenged.
it's one thing after another ......forever.
you think the creation is simple?
7billion souls all moving to 'Something Greater'......

you might not agree now......
but the moment your 'shell' fails.....